TIME to bring in a new coaching staff

[Philosophers]

Hue Jackson went 1-31 with Cleveland and got a 3rd season.

That should not mean Dabs gets a pass because of Jackson but thanks for the info.  Can't fathom how Jackson would be allowed more time.

[MightyGiants]

It's interesting that 3 of the 4 "worst" Giants coaches all had Daniel Jones as their QB.

I think Judge and Shurmur both were awful hires, but could not help but notice that.

Shurmur had more games with Eli

[T200]

Not sure where you are going.  If you are blaming Daniel Jones, Brian Daboll was supposed to be the "QB Whisperer" for developing QBs.  Not only did he not develop DJ, he didn't develop Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito.  Daboll was supposed to be an offensive mastermind.  Nothing has happened on any of that front.

If you are blaming Mara, I get poor ownership but at the end of the day, it falls on the coach in terms of wins and losses.

The whole argument that a coach needs to get his own QB is true ONLY IF a prior drafted QB and the HC cannot work together.  By all accounts, Jones and Daboll worked great together in terms of relationship.

It falls on Daboll.  Schoen goes too. 

You still have a few more "whys" to ask. 

[MrGap92]

Not sure where you are going.  If you are blaming Daniel Jones, Brian Daboll was supposed to be the "QB Whisperer" for developing QBs.  Not only did he not develop DJ, he didn't develop Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito.  Daboll was supposed to be an offensive mastermind.  Nothing has happened on any of that front.

If you are blaming Mara, I get poor ownership but at the end of the day, it falls on the coach in terms of wins and losses.

The whole argument that a coach needs to get his own QB is true ONLY IF a prior drafted QB and the HC cannot work together.  By all accounts, Jones and Daboll worked great together in terms of relationship.

It falls on Daboll.  Schoen goes too. 

Who is to say DJ had anything left to develop? Are you implying Lock and DeVito are quality talents that a team, any team, can actually win with?

[T200]

It's interesting that 3 of the 4 "worst" Giants coaches all had Daniel Jones as their QB.

I think Judge and Shurmur both were awful hires, but could not help but notice that.

👀 👀 👀

[Trench]

Daboll has the 4th worst winning percentage in Giants history (5th if you count the handful of games interim HC Spags coached).

The only ones with a worse record than Daboll:

Joe Judge
Pat Shurmur
Bill Arnsparger


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_Giants_head_coaches

To be fair, when Joe Torre was hired by the Yankees the headlines were cruel and rotten...and he became a hall of famer.....not saying dabs is it but...

[BlueMoshik]

To be fair, when Joe Torre was hired by the Yankees the headlines were cruel and rotten...and he became a hall of famer.....not saying dabs is it but...

What does Joe Torre have to do with anything?

When Daboll was hired the headlines were good. The headlines are bad now after three seasons of Daboll.

Your argument is that Joe Torre turned out to be a HOF manager so the Giants should keep Daboll after a 2-win season?

[katkavage]

What does Joe Torre have to do with anything?

When Daboll was hired the headlines were good. The headlines are bad now after three seasons of Daboll.

Your argument is that Joe Torre turned out to be a HOF manager so the Giants should keep Daboll after a 2-win season?

Torre was hired to replace Showalter who brought the Yankees to the playoffs the previous season. His hire was blasted by all. NYPpst: "Clueless Joe." The rest is history.

[Philosophers]

Who is to say DJ had anything left to develop? Are you implying Lock and DeVito are quality talents that a team, any team, can actually win with?

Look at the entire team.  There have been declining position groups everywhere.

He was HC and so-called offensive mastermind for a program that gave up 85 sacks.

Dabs has no overall plan for the team.

I cant help but compare what Jim Harbaugh has done with the Chargers in terms of creating a philosophy and structural framework, identity and building blocks.  Look how good they are now as team around Herbert is playing well and doing their jobs.

[londonblue]

That is a really fair point Philosophers. We can all describe what Andy Reid believes in or Sean McVay or both Harbaughs. What is Daboll's USP? Smart, tough, dependable is nothing more than an empty soundbite when the team exhibits none of these traits and they draft Banks and Nabers R1 who will never be positive tone setters in the locker room.

[katkavage]

That is a really fair point Philosophers. We can all describe what Andy Reid believes in or Sean McVay or both Harbaughs. What is Daboll's USP? Smart, tough, dependable is nothing more than an empty soundbite when the team exhibits none of these traits and they draft Banks and Nabers R1 who will never be positive tone setters in the locker room.

Not to mention they stupidly passed on a QB taking a wide receiver instead. Why would you do that unless you thought you might win with the QB you had? Unless you thought the three remaining QBs on the board were more of a risk than taking a highly rated WR and thinking you had a QB who could benefit from that WR. Shows very very bad judgement and if they had either Nix, Penix, or the injured McCarthy now, they would be in a better position than they are (2-11) for the future than with Nabers.

[coggs]

Not to mention they stupidly passed on a QB taking a wide receiver instead. Why would you do that unless you thought you might win with the QB you had? Unless you thought the three remaining QBs on the board were more of a risk than taking a highly rated WR and thinking you had a QB who could benefit from that WR. Shows very very bad judgement and if they had either Nix, Penix, or the injured McCarthy now, they would be in a better position than they are (2-11) for the future than with Nabers.

Because they didn't like any of those QB's at that spot?

[Philosophers]

Because they didn't like any of those QB's at that spot?

Look how wrong they were with that decision.  Now they go into an offseason with less high quality QB prospects

[T200]

Look how wrong they were with that decision.  Now they go into an offseason with less high quality QB prospects

How do we know they were wrong? They did their due diligence and for whatever reason, they decided to pass on Nix, Penix, and McCarthy. Why fault them for that?

Man, you guys are really out for blood!

[MightyGiants]

How do we know they were wrong? They did their due diligence and for whatever reason, they decided to pass on Nix, Penix, and McCarthy. Why fault them for that?

Man, you guys are really out for blood!

Tim,

I think the far more important question is how you are not holding them accountable for that critical decision.   All they needed was one QB.  If one of those (and it's looking pretty good for Nix) QB prospects develops into a franchise QB and it is looking like a major mistake by Schoen and Daboll (and not one that is easily pawned off on John Mara, since we saw him give his blessing on HK).