How I would fix the NY Giants organization

[MightyGiants]

First, I agree with much of Mike Lombardi's assessment of what is wrong with the team, so read that post if you want to get a feel for what I consider the problems to be.   


MY PLAN:

1) Hire a non-Mara to be President of Football operations-  This position would be equal to GM and have all NY Giants employees outside of coaching, scouting, and football front office people reporting to him.  He would clean the house with no family or loyalty issues holding him back.  Mara would only supervise this position and GM.

2) Replace Schoen with a GM whose vision for the team isn't "whatever the coaches tell me they want."  While I want the GM to work with the coaches, the GM shouldn't be asking new hires like Schoen Bowen what sort of team they should be building (like we saw on Hard Knocks)

3) Fire Daboll and bring in a culture setter/good manager head coach with experience as HC

Obviously the QB and the rest of the roster need work, but I would trust the new team to get the job done.

[Ed Vette]

Do you believe that additional layer of management that has come up every 2-3 years would ever happen?

[MightyGiants]

Do you believe that additional layer of management that has come up every 2-3 years would ever happen?

I am not optimistic, but if I were Tisch I would insist on it (especially if he heard Mike Lombardi)

[Trench]

I think Daboll tried to sell his culture aspect in the form of "smart, tough, dependable" identity.

He did try to fix the culture but he didn't even stick to his own script.

[MightyGiants]

I think Daboll tried to sell his culture aspect in the form of "smart, tough, dependable" identity.

He did try to fix the culture but he didn't even stick to his own script.

This is a fair point.  Hard to say these traits apply to first-round picks Banks and Nabers

[coggs]

On point 1, who is this person overseeing?  Ticket office and the gameday staff?

[MightyGiants]

On point 1, who is this person overseeing?  Ticket office and the gameday staff?

Ronnie Barnes and the medical staff, the video people that help the coaches, the equipment staff, the IT staff, and so on

[coggs]

Ronnie Barnes and the medical staff, the video people that help the coaches, the equipment staff, the IT staff, and so on

Not getting into the medical staff again, but I find it hard to believe the equipment staff, video people or IT staff are the problem here.  The problem is the scouting, the cap management. 

[MightyGiants]

Not getting into the medical staff again, but I find it hard to believe the equipment staff, video people or IT staff are the problem here.  The problem is the scouting, the cap management. 

If you work in an organization where it's hard to get things done because you are surrounded by people who don't care about doing a good job...


I am not dismissing the concerns you raised, it's just that I believe the problem is deeper than that.

[kartanoman]

Good morning, Rich @MightyGiants .

It sounds like you want a "Tim Mara Jr." (plus mom and sister) type, who pushes back against the status quo on the John Mara side, to ensure the priority is the best product on the field. One of the biggest challenges is overcoming financially driven interests of the current owner, the Tisch family, who has largely been focused on the Business Management side, and who would take great exception to your idea.

It goes back to what I was discussing yesterday. When Preston Robert Tisch bought Tim Mara Jr. and family's half of the Giants' organization, then Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, a lawyer himself, wanted to ensure that another civil war situation would never occur again by splitting an NFL organization 50/50. An exception was made with Tisch because he publicly deferred all football specific decision making to the business partner with the experience in that domain. His focus on the business side would perfectly complement the Mara family in growing the Giants as a football entity AND a business entity.

Since 1991, there have been more down years than up; however, it brought three (3) Conference Championships and two (2) Super Bowl victories. The team is down; however, they have journeyed to the top of the Everest of the NFL in a span of time where other teams have NEVER had the opportunity. As bad as it is now, we at least have those memories of legend that now occupy NFL lore. Believe it or not, the Giants' accomplishments ARE the envy of those who can only imagine what it might look like if their team could just be there, not mentioning win it. Ask any Jaguars, Texans, Browns or Lions fan what it is like to follow a team which has NEVER made it to the big show, especially the latter two.

It is hard to deal with consistent losing with no end in sight. Until then, I am grateful for the memories of the great times. But waiting comes at a cost and never more than it does right now. When the face value of a seat in Giants Stadium was $11.50 (NOTE: old time season ticket holders, take a guess when that was? Hint: my old man's seats were upper deck, Section 311, behind the goal posts), that was one thing. What they cost today, plus PSLs and all, the anger exponentially grows with the skyrocketing prices.

The Tisch family is disappointed with the team's results, no doubt. But the one thing they'll show you that they'll take great pride in is that the careful investments they've made with the Mara family have yielded the Giants' organization being the fourth (4th) richest organization in the NFL. Right now, they are doing all they can to jump up to the next rung on the ladder. That is their passion and it is what they are good at. I have no doubt at all that the Mara family is complaining at the waterfall benefits of having Steve and his family running the Business Management organization and would push back against any individual being hired to tell them they don't have the product on the field as their #1 interest. It would be an insult as it would be ludicrous. Unfortunately, in this world, "greed in good," and the bean counters always find their damned way into "untouchable" status.

So, in conclusion, I respectfully understand and would normally agree with your suggestion, Rich @MightyGiants . In this case, however, to instill REAL change, the Mara family would either need to sell out in their entirety, to an owner who is committed to giving the fans a real winner, and then being a good steward of his/her football organization (e.g. Eddie DeBartolo Jr. style), or buy out the Tisch family, go back to running the Giants as the "Shop Around The Corner" store, with a couple of chairs inside, or Tisch propose a power play to try and buy out the Mara family altogether. The ultimate question, in all scenarios, would be whether the league would approve.

The Football Giants have a long and storied tradition based on strong running attack and a tough, impenetrable defense. This strength over strength is the core value for playing winning football in New York and throw in a Southern-bred Quarterback to lead the offense to complete the puzzle.

There's no easy way out of the current situation they are in. The best that can be said is that they are not in salary cap hell like they were a few years ago. They should be able to rebuild but rebuild wisely should now be the charge. That starts with fixing both sides of the line of scrimmage and picking up some mean, nasty individuals who hate losing and want to take it out on their opponents every week. Once the lines are fortified, then go for the most valued skill positions of need. Do it right, build your depth in parallel, grow and mature your on-field capability into pillars of strength to where your team dictates things on the field and not the other way. Everything else, from that point, will take care of itself.

That's my two cents on how to build. I've seen Parcells do it that way and reference 1984-90 for results. I've seen Coughlin do it that way and reference 2005-11 for results. To lesser extents, Dan Reeves put what was left of Parcells' best and his best available from the Broncos to make 1993 work. Gentleman Jim Fassel did the same with 1997 and 2000.

Whether or not it is Daboll and/or Schoen doesn't matter. Stabilize the Football Operations!!! Make a plan, commit to the plan and acquire the RIGHT resources to execute the plan. That alone will help things out here.

Now, we have to wait until the chaos runs its course from the rest of this season before anything can be done to begin stabilizing the operation.

We'll see who is left standing in the end!

Peace!

[LennG]

I disagree entirely (well mostly)

#1 I would retain Schoen for, at least another draft and another year. He came to the Giants and he was saddled with a horrible money situation and a bad team. We see other teams get turned around almost overnight but maybe they had money to use to get better, Schoen didn't and that basically lasted for his first couple of years. Yes, his drafts weren't the best, but in this last draft, he hit it truly out of the park, so now you want to get rid of him. He needs at least another year to bring in HIS own QB not one who should never have been playing here. Yes, he gave him that huge contract, but from what I have heard, a lot of that was Mara's interference. We saw, from Hard Knocks, Schoen wanted someone else in a terrible way, but couldn't manage it. Again, he deserves at least another year, another draft and get a QB who can really play in the NFL.
#2-Daboll. I am truly on the fence with this one. I don't believe Daboll has done a good job this season (and some of last) but, like Schoen, he is saddled with one of the worst QBs in the league. I think he deserves another year with a QB HE feels he can work with. We have a coach and a GM who were handed a horrible QB. They both tried to give him everything people said this QB needed to succeed and it still wasn't enough. Daboll was COTY so he can't be that bad. There are certain things I really don't like about his coaching and if he remains he must hire a quality OC. As this is Daboll's first crack at being a HC he is still learning on the fly, how to deal with these things that are happening in the locker room. He has never experienced these things (especially losing every year) so I would have to give him one more year with a QB that he can work with.

As I have said several times, with a good QB who can make NFL plays, we have the nucleus of a decent enough team,a nd can be competitive next year with a couple of good additions. The two guys need a 'prove it' year to right this ship free of the burden of Daniel Jones. Jones got a 'prove it' year, why shouldn't the coach and GM get the same.

[Giant Jim]

I disagree entirely (well mostly)

#1 I would retain Schoen for, at least another draft and another year. He came to the Giants and he was saddled with a horrible money situation and a bad team. We see other teams get turned around almost overnight but maybe they had money to use to get better, Schoen didn't and that basically lasted for his first couple of years. Yes, his drafts weren't the best, but in this last draft, he hit it truly out of the park, so now you want to get rid of him. He needs at least another year to bring in HIS own QB not one who should never have been playing here. Yes, he gave him that huge contract, but from what I have heard, a lot of that was Mara's interference. We saw, from Hard Knocks, Schoen wanted someone else in a terrible way, but couldn't manage it. Again, he deserves at least another year, another draft and get a QB who can really play in the NFL.

Giving the GM a year to get it right is the John Mara way. Instead of building a good team, it would be in his best interest to just fix it. Draft another WR or RB that might win a couple of games and mortgage the cap like Gettleman did. Sign a free agent QB that can help next year instead of drafting one and his growing pains don't help next season's record. Win 7 or 8 games with an Aaron Rodgers type and save your job. In the end, the team is no better. GM's need security to do it right. John Mara measure's by number of wins, but his way will never see 10 wins in a season or 2 or more winning seasons in a row.

[Jclayton92]

I don't know why people even listen to Lombardi. In my opinion he's a bum that happens to be a super fan girl of Bill Belichick so he keeps him around. He literally did so bad his one year as a GM that he couldn't get a front office job and had to be an assistant to the coaching staff instead.

So again why listen to the guy....

[EDjohnst1981]

I disagree entirely (well mostly)

#1 I would retain Schoen for, at least another draft and another year. He came to the Giants and he was saddled with a horrible money situation and a bad team. We see other teams get turned around almost overnight but maybe they had money to use to get better, Schoen didn't and that basically lasted for his first couple of years. Yes, his drafts weren't the best, but in this last draft, he hit it truly out of the park, so now you want to get rid of him. He needs at least another year to bring in HIS own QB not one who should never have been playing here. Yes, he gave him that huge contract, but from what I have heard, a lot of that was Mara's interference. We saw, from Hard Knocks, Schoen wanted someone else in a terrible way, but couldn't manage it. Again, he deserves at least another year, another draft and get a QB who can really play in the NFL.
#2-Daboll. I am truly on the fence with this one. I don't believe Daboll has done a good job this season (and some of last) but, like Schoen, he is saddled with one of the worst QBs in the league. I think he deserves another year with a QB HE feels he can work with. We have a coach and a GM who were handed a horrible QB. They both tried to give him everything people said this QB needed to succeed and it still wasn't enough. Daboll was COTY so he can't be that bad. There are certain things I really don't like about his coaching and if he remains he must hire a quality OC. As this is Daboll's first crack at being a HC he is still learning on the fly, how to deal with these things that are happening in the locker room. He has never experienced these things (especially losing every year) so I would have to give him one more year with a QB that he can work with.

As I have said several times, with a good QB who can make NFL plays, we have the nucleus of a decent enough team,a nd can be competitive next year with a couple of good additions. The two guys need a 'prove it' year to right this ship free of the burden of Daniel Jones. Jones got a 'prove it' year, why shouldn't the coach and GM get the same.

I absolutely agree on retaining Schoen.

GMs need longer than coaches to make a long term difference. Unless you're an absolute dumpster fire, there's is no need to jettison a GM early.

[ozzie]

I think I would give Schoen another year or two. This is his first go round in the big boy chair and there are bound to be bumps in the road and mistakes made in the draft and in FA. I believe that his learning under Beane in Buffalo will payoff with a little bit more experience in both of those areas.
I would dump Daboll today and let Kafka take over as he is Asst. HC anyway and never really got a shot to do anything his way. Even calling plays was taken away from him by Daboll.
Let this be Kafka's "audition" for next season. If there is not improvement over the final 6 games, so be it, but if players respond and it looks like he just might have some juice to actually lead a team, give him his shot.
Up to now, I don't really know why they hired him in the first place? I think Daboll may be somewhat intimidated by him and fears Kafka may be a better coach than he is. Why else tie his hands and basically ignore the fact that he is part of the staff? Seems like a power move to me made by Daboll.
And if Kafka doesn't work out, the Giants need a head coach with experience who is a disciplinarian!
No more hot young co-ordinators, no more "players coaches". They need someone who will lay down the law and hold everyone in the room accountable.
And if you wonder why I would give Schoen another few years and not Daboll, the reason is I don't think he is a good leader. The players seem to be fed up with whatever is going on in the locker room and there is way too much "Coach Speak" in every interview. The Giants ALWAYS have a good week of practice, but somehow, they are NEVER prepared to play on Sundays.