Missed Tackles

[MightyGiants]

On this topic, I am offering up my formula.

Poor Effort + Bad Technique = Missed Tackle

Effort = Player's attributes + coached-up motivation

Technique = Player's attributes + coached technique


I used PFF's missed tackles stats.  Much like in the dropped pass category, I think it's worth considering not just raw missed tackles but the missed tackle rate.  Here are the Giants defenders with more than two missed tackles and their missed tackle rate


Player ** Missed Tackles ** Missed Tackle Rater

Jason Pinnock ** 12 ** 19.7%
Micah McFadden ** 11 ** 12.4%
Bobby Okereke ** 11 ** 10.7%
Andru Phillips ** 10 ** 15.9%
Tyler Nubin ** 9 ** 9.9%
Cor'Dale Flott ** 9 ** 18.4%
Azeez Ojulari ** 9 ** 31.0%
Kayvon Thibodeaux ** 6 ** 31.6%
Dexter Lawrence ** 5 ** 12.8%
Darius Muasau ** 4 ** 25.0%
Rakeem Nunez-Roches ** 4 ** 8.2%
Dane Belton ** 3 ** 18.8%
Deonte Banks ** 3 ** 7.0%
Brian Burns ** 3 ** 6.3%
Isaiah Simmons ** 3 ** 23.1%
Adoree' Jackson ** 3 ** 18.8%

[Ed Vette]

Missed tackle numbers don't give credit for a player putting themselves in a position to make a tackle. Like McFadden as an example, he has a nose for the ball and a motor to boot.

[MightyGiants]

Missed tackle numbers don't give credit for a player putting themselves in a position to make a tackle. Like McFadden as an example, he has a nose for the ball and a motor to boot.

Carl Banks has frequently, over the past two seasons, tried to coach up McFadden on his podcast.  Carl pushed him to not stop his feet and drive through the tackle and do a better job wrapping up.

I guess the best thing you can say about McFadden is that he seems to be improving.

2023   25 missed tackles  20.7% missed tackle rate

2024   11 missed tackles  12.4% missed tackle rate

[Ed Vette]

Carl Banks has frequently, over the past two seasons, tried to coach up McFadden on his podcast.  Carl pushed him to not stop his feet and drive through the tackle and do a better job wrapping up.

I guess the best thing you can say about McFadden is that he seems to be improving.

2023   25 missed tackles  20.7% missed tackle rate

2024   11 missed tackles  12.4% missed tackle rate

Compare him to Simmons. McFadden is often around the ball. I know that certain positions warrant high tackle numbers but when you compare players of the same position it becomes clear who's dogging it, or getting washed out, and who's the playmaker.

[MightyGiants]

Compare him to Simmons. McFadden is often around the ball. I know that certain positions warrant high tackle numbers but when you compare players of the same position it becomes clear who's dogging it, or getting washed out, and who's the playmaker.

Going back to my formula, McFadden gets an A for effort but a C- for technique 

[Ed Vette]

Going back to my formula, McFadden gets an A for effort but a C- for technique 

The tackles he does make, often wouldn't be made by another player on the team. Tandem tackle combinations can drag down one player because of a missed tackle by another player. Just like I pointed out yesterday that Nabors gets a high percentage of targets that puts the drops in perspective. The most productive Receivers in the league can have a high number of drops.

[coggs]

This wouldn't be happening if Joe Judge was still coach.  He would make them run laps and then they wouldn't miss tackles.  The fear of extra laps will make them play better.

[MightyGiants]

This wouldn't be happening if Joe Judge was still coach.  He would make them run laps and then they wouldn't miss tackles.  The fear of extra laps will make them play better.

Again, appreciate the effort to mock the idea that coaching can make a difference.  Since I still had the PFF page open on the 2023 season of the Pats (weak team but good coaching), I figured I would do a comparison.  I took the same more than 3 missed tackles (which slightly favors the Giants since they have 5 fewer games to generate missed tackles) and set a standard that 15% or more missed tackle rate would be a mark of a chronic missed tackle offender.

Well, the Giants had 8 defenders that met that criteria.

While the Pats only had 3.

[coggs]

Again, appreciate the effort to mock the idea that coaching can make a difference.  Since I still had the PFF page open on the 2023 season of the Pats (weak team but good coaching), I figured I would do a comparison.  I took the same more than 3 missed tackles (which slightly favors the Giants since they have 5 fewer games to generate missed tackles) and set a standard that 15% or more missed tackle rate would be a mark of a chronic missed tackle offender.

Well, the Giants had 8 defenders that met that criteria.

While the Pats only had 3.

Then why aren't the Patriots in a battle for a play-off spot?  Again, missed tackles are subjective and unless you have watched every play for both teams it is not as simple as just looking at numbers.  Just like if you take 2 RB's and 1 has 100 yards rushing and 30 receiving yards.  The other has 75 yards rushing and 15 receiving yards.  Without watching the game, you can't say the first had a better game.

[B1GBLUE]

On this topic, I am offering up my formula.

Poor Effort + Bad Technique = Missed Tackle

Effort = Player's attributes + coached-up motivation

Technique = Player's attributes + coached technique


I used PFF's missed tackles stats.  Much like in the dropped pass category, I think it's worth considering not just raw missed tackles but the missed tackle rate.  Here are the Giants defenders with more than two missed tackles and their missed tackle rate


Player ** Missed Tackles ** Missed Tackle Rater

Jason Pinnock ** 12 ** 19.7%
Micah McFadden ** 11 ** 12.4%
Bobby Okereke ** 11 ** 10.7%
Andru Phillips ** 10 ** 15.9%
Tyler Nubin ** 9 ** 9.9%
Cor'Dale Flott ** 9 ** 18.4%
Azeez Ojulari ** 9 ** 31.0%
Kayvon Thibodeaux ** 6 ** 31.6%
Dexter Lawrence ** 5 ** 12.8%
Darius Muasau ** 4 ** 25.0%
Rakeem Nunez-Roches ** 4 ** 8.2%
Dane Belton ** 3 ** 18.8%
Deonte Banks ** 3 ** 7.0%
Brian Burns ** 3 ** 6.3%
Isaiah Simmons ** 3 ** 23.1%
Adoree' Jackson ** 3 ** 18.8%

somewhat expected, but our secondarys missed tackle rate is awful. okerekes rate is not as bad as i was expecting, but he has looked lackluster this year.

[EDjohnst1981]

What's the market average looking like for him?

Might be worth rolling the dice and trying to get him cheaper?

This is a tough call.

[Bob In PA]

On this topic, I am offering up my formula.

Poor Effort + Bad Technique = Missed Tackle

Effort = Player's attributes + coached-up motivation

Technique = Player's attributes + coached technique

The list is inherently unfair, as is the stat itself.

They fail to take into account that you only get an opportunity to "miss" a tackle if you are able to get close enough to the ball-carrier. The faster a player is and the more capable he is at knowing and calculating angles of pursuit on-the-fly, the more opportunities he will have.

In short, lazy players who never get there or take bad angles are never charged with missed tackles.

Bob

[MightyGiants]

The list is inherently unfair, as is the stat itself.

They fail to take into account that you only get an opportunity to "miss" a tackle if you are able to get close enough to the ball-carrier. The faster a player is and the more capable he is at knowing and calculating angles of pursuit on-the-fly, the more opportunities he will have.

In short, lazy players who never get there or take bad angles are never charged with missed tackles.

Bob

Bob,

That's where missed tackle percentage comes in.   That metric accounts for the number of tackles attempted.

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

That's where missed tackle percentage comes in.   That metric accounts for the number of tackles attempted.

Rich: If you should have gotten there but didn't because you're a slow, dumb, ineffective and lousy player, you can't get tagged with a missed tackle.

As you rightly point out, many aspects of missed tackles are analogous to dropped passes, but failure of a QB to throw you the ball because you're never open is NOT analogous to failing to get close enough to even TRY to make a tackle (how do we judge when a player who never got there SHOULD HAVE gotten there?).

McFadden (especially, but there are a few others near the top of the list) EXCELS at getting there, but often merely being "nearby" should not be counted because most players never would have gotten there. The missed tackle stat is inherently fraught with problems, because it's hard to judge when it should become applicable on any given play.

Bob

[TDToomer]

I loved Mcfadden as a rookie but he has been a disappointment since. I am fed up with him not being able to finish his tackles. On most teams he would be a part time player.

I am done with Bowen as the DC and he needs to go. If Dabs and Schoen are returning someone needs to lose their job to placate the fans and media. He isn't teaching them the proper tackling techniques and neither did Wink. Hire a DC who stresses using your arms to tackle not your shoulders which I see way to much from the DBs. Scout the best draft ellible defenders who can make open field tackles and target them in the draft. Find a few free agents who can tackle and stop relying on rookies, waiver claims and UDFA to play so many key roles in our secondary.