A plea to John Mara to retain the staff

[katkavage]

I feel like you want something to shoot down. I answered you in another thread but it wasn't good enough.

It was a legit answer that you didn't like. That's fine but don't say you weren't given an answer.

I must have missed the answer. Please refresh my aged brain. I think if it was that he should have a shot at developing his own QB, that's not an answer to what he has done well as a Giants head coach. I  respect that as a reason to keep him, but has nothing to do with what he has accomplished (or not) as a Giants coach.

[T200]

I must have missed the answer. Please refresh my aged brain. I think if it was that he should have a shot at developing his own QB, that's not an answer to what he has done well as a Giants head coach. I  respect that as a reason to keep him, but has nothing to do with what he has accomplished (or not) as a Giants coach.

He tailored a vanilla offense to match his below average QBs talents and maximized it to get to the playoffs and a win.

Unfortunately a dink-and-dunk offense is only going to work for a short time. I mean, this is the NFL and once a DC figures out what's really happening, that offense gets shut down quickly, as we witnessed.

Last season and this season, Daboll opened up the playbook to see how much more Jones could handle and it turned out to be not much.

And again, Daboll's hands are far from clean in this mess. Just because I support him doesn't mean I turn a blind eye when he messes up.

[MightyGiants]

He tailored a vanilla offense to match his below average QBs talents and maximized it to get to the playoffs and a win.

Unfortunately a dink-and-dunk offense is only going to work for a short time. I mean, this is the NFL and once a DC figures out what's really happening, that offense gets shut down quickly, as we witnessed.

Last season and this season, Daboll opened up the playbook to see how much more Jones could handle and it turned out to be not much.

And again, Daboll's hands are far from clean in this mess. Just because I support him doesn't mean I turn a blind eye when he messes up.

So, other coaches couldn't simplify an offense and would be unable to create a counter when that simple scheme was figured out?

[T200]

So, other coaches couldn't simplify an offense and would be unable to create a counter when that simple scheme was figured out?

Jones didn't win a playoff game until Daboll got here. So, all signs point to NO.

[spiderblue43]

Uh .that stock is devalued. Has no investor faith..why should Giants fans feel such? Start over, painful as it is for Pat. I don't care

[katkavage]

He tailored a vanilla offense to match his below average QBs talents and maximized it to get to the playoffs and a win.

Unfortunately a dink-and-dunk offense is only going to work for a short time. I mean, this is the NFL and once a DC figures out what's really happening, that offense gets shut down quickly, as we witnessed.

Last season and this season, Daboll opened up the playbook to see how much more Jones could handle and it turned out to be not much.

And again, Daboll's hands are far from clean in this mess. Just because I support him doesn't mean I turn a blind eye when he messes up.

He gets credit for that season and playoff win against a very bad defense. But in a way it masked his other deficiencies. You are also highlighting what he did as an offensive schemer. As head coach you are ultimately responsible for all phases of the game. He is lacking in most of the other phases in a big way. I just fear the Giants and their fans are postponing the inevitable.

[MightyGiants]

Jones didn't win a playoff game until Daboll got here. So, all signs point to NO.

Considering it was DJ's rookie season, and DJ did a whole lot more scoring, it would be fair to say Shurmur did it better.

Considering neither Judge nor Garrett have jobs in the NFL, I can't see using them as the standard for what other NFL head coaches can do

[Doc16LT56]

These aren't good arguments in support of Daboll. The league was able to solve Daboll's approach with Daniel Jones and Daboll didn't anticipate this and get a QB he could do better than 32nd in scoring with? If true that should be disqualifying in and of itself.

[T200]

He gets credit for that season and playoff win against a very bad defense. But in a way it masked his other deficiencies. You are also highlighting what he did as an offensive schemer. As head coach you are ultimately responsible for all phases of the game. He is lacking in most of the other phases in a big way. I just fear the Giants and their fans are postponing the inevitable.

I agree 1000%. I was skeptical of his ability to run both the team and the offense. He has shown that he can't.

I said in another thread that Schoen needs to tell Daboll to fire the OC and bring in someone else he trusts because it ain't Kafka.

[T200]

Considering it was DJ's rookie season, and DJ did a whole lot more scoring, it would be fair to say Shurmur did it better.

Considering neither Judge nor Garrett have jobs in the NFL, I can't see using them as the standard for what other NFL head coaches can do

That's your perspective and I respect it. But Daboll, not Shurmur, got Jones to win a playoff game. That fact can't be disputed no matter how much you try and downplay what Daboll did.

Further, you're the one who mentioned other coaches, not me. So you just negated your own point.

[MightyGiants]

That's your perspective and I respect it. But Daboll, not Shurmur, got Jones to win a playoff game. That fact can't be disputed no matter how much you try and downplay what Daboll did.

Further, you're the one who mentioned other coaches, not me. So you just negated your own point.

No, the challenge was to show what Daboll does better than his peers.  You cited non-peers (even Shurmur no longer coaches in the NFL).

I am curious: do you give any credit to DJ for winning that playoff game?

[T200]

These aren't good arguments in support of Daboll. The league was able to solve Daboll's approach with Daniel Jones and Daboll didn't anticipate this and get a QB he could do better than 32nd in scoring with? If true that should be disqualifying in and of itself.

Maybe, maybe not.

But that's a whole different aspect of this entire fiasco that Mara is responsible for. How do you, as a first time HC, fresh off the team's first playoff win, tell the owner, who felt bad because they "did everything to ruin the kid", that they want to move on from Jones?

[MightyGiants]

Maybe, maybe not.

But that's a whole different aspect of this entire fiasco that Mara is responsible for. How do you, as a first time HC, fresh off the team's first playoff win, tell the owner, who felt bad because they "did everything to ruin the kid", that they want to move on from Jones?

Reworded:  How do a coach and GM with the clout of having just won an away playoff game against a 13-4 team and with the coach having the extra boost of being named coach of the year, not have the ability to tell an owner who we know only offer suggestions that they want to go in another direction?

[T200]

No, the challenge was to show what Daboll does better than his peers.  You cited non-peers (even Shurmur no longer coaches in the NFL).

I am curious: do you give any credit to DJ for winning that playoff game?

What is this "challenge" you speak of? I was responding to @katkavage and provided something he did well.

You asked about other coaches. I did not bring them up.

I do and did give DJ credit for how well he played in that game.

[MightyGiants]

What is this "challenge" you speak of? I was responding to @katkavage and provided something he did well.

You asked about other coaches. I did not bring them up.

I do and did give DJ credit for how well he played in that game.

Tim,

The NFL is a competition.   If a head coach doesn't do things better than his peers, the team is handicapped.   It's not a coincidence that the Giants' four Super Bowl trophies were won while the team had HOF/Near HOF head coaches.