Biggest knock on Schoen: Not signing Wilson

[T200]

Tim,

I appreciate that this is what you believe happened, but factually speaking, there is zero evidence to support this version of events.  In fact, all available evidence suggests that this is not how things transpired.  It was, in fact, Schoen and Daboll who evaluated DJ after the 2022 season and believed DJ could continue to improve and be this team's franchise QB.

While I appreciate your right to believe what you want, I can't help but feel like it's a bit of revisionist history. 

Really?

What facts do you have to support saying Schoen and Daboll believed DJ could continue to improve and be the team's franchise QB?

Mara is a known meddler. Not an in-your-face type but his comments carry weight and people act on them. Those are facts. Just ask Kevin Gilbride.

[MightyGiants]

Really?

What facts do you have to support saying Schoen and Daboll believed DJ could continue to improve and be the team's franchise QB?

Mara is a known meddler. Not an in-your-face type but his comments carry weight and people act on them. Those are facts. Just ask Kevin Gilbride.

Sadly, I can't provide as much as I would like, as NYG has scrubbed the old transcripts.

In terms of facts to say Mara was not responsible for signing DJ to a veteran contract

1) Mara allowed Schoen to pass on DJ's 5th-year option

2) After the 2022 season, both Schoen and Daboll sang DJ praises.   Joe went to far to say he believed DJ was a franchise QB.  He even slipped up (or so it appears) when he said one way or the other DJ would be back (tag or contract).

3) Hard Knocks John Mara expressed a strong desire to retain Barkley (as did his nephew) and Schoen and Daboll allowed Barkley to walk.

You may consider John Mara voicing his opinions as "meddling."   That is your right.  However, it's fair to say most owners share their opinions with their management team.  What we have repeatedly seen is that Mara gives his team the freedom to make their own decisions, even if they run contrary to what he believes to be best for the team (as it should be, in my opinion).

As for Kevin Gilbride, I always felt he was but one of a list of men tossed under the bus (including Tom Coughlin) in an effort by Jerry Reese to save his job.

[T200]

Sadly, I can't provide as much as I would like, as NYG has scrubbed the old transcripts.

In terms of facts to say Mara was not responsible for signing DJ to a veteran contract

1) Mara allowed Schoen to pass on DJ's 5th-year option

2) After the 2022 season, both Schoen and Daboll sang DJ praises.   Joe went to far to say he believed DJ was a franchise QB.  He even slipped up (or so it appears) when he said one way or the other DJ would be back (tag or contract).

3) Hard Knocks John Mara expressed a strong desire to retain Barkley (as did his nephew) and Schoen and Daboll allowed Barkley to walk.

You may consider John Mara voicing his opinions as "meddling."   That is your right.  However, it's fair to say most owners share their opinions with their management team.  What we have repeatedly seen is that Mara gives his team the freedom to make their own decisions, even if they run contrary to what he believes to be best for the team (as it should be, in my opinion).

As for Kevin Gilbride, I always felt he was but one of a list of men tossed under the bus (including Tom Coughlin) in an effort by Jerry Reese to save his job.

I've already commented on everything you listed. I'm done repeating myself.

You continue to talk about other teams as if it matters. It doesn't.

Do you think Gilbride would have been fired if Mara hadn't declared the offense was broken?

[MightyGiants]

I've already commented on everything you listed. I'm done repeating myself.

You continue to talk about other teams as if it matters. It doesn't.

Do you think Gilbride would have been fired if Mara hadn't declared the offense was broken?

Tim,

If you say something is impossible, but other teams accomplish said task, I think it is relevant

[T200]

Tim,

If you say something is impossible, but other teams accomplish said task, I think it is relevant

Where is the intellectual honesty, Rich? What did I say was 'impossible'?

I asked a question... do you care to answer?

Do you think Gilbride would have been fired if Mara hadn't declared the offense was broken?

[coggs]

Joe,

I suspect the Giants recognize the failure.  I think the issue involves the GM admitting failure with high draft picks.

Steelers have not had a sub-.500 record since 2003.  Starting with 1980 after their 4th SB, they have only had 7 sub-500 seasons.  1988 was was the only season since 1971 they were under 6 wins at 5-11.  I can understand their brass being much quicker to pull the plug when necessary as opposed to our GMs who do not have that kind of equity. 

[MightyGiants]

Where is the intellectual honesty, Rich? What did I say was 'impossible'?

I asked a question... do you care to answer?

I think the team being 28th in yards and 28th in points had more to do with the firing, than the owner stating the obvious

[T200]

I think the team being 28th in yards and 28th in points had more to do with the firing, than the owner stating the obvious

I think you responded to the wrong post. 

[MightyGiants]

@T200

Do you think Gilbride would have been fired if Mara hadn't declared the offense was broken?

I think the team being 28th in yards and 28th in points had more to do with the firing, than the owner stating the obvious

[coggs]

I think the team being 28th in yards and 28th in points had more to do with the firing, than the owner stating the obvious

After Gilbride had been saying the OLine needed to be re-tooled since about midway through the 2012 season.

[MightyGiants]

After Gilbride had been saying the OLine needed to be re-tooled since about midway through the 2012 season.

As I said, Jerry Reese was throwing good men under the bus in an effort to save his job.   I am sure Reese sold Mara on the idea that the issue wasn't a lack of talent on the offensive side but a lack of good coaching.

[T200]

@MightyGiants

I think the team being 28th in yards and 28th in points had more to do with the firing, than the owner stating the obvious

Still doesn't answer my question.

If you say something is impossible, but other teams accomplish said task, I think it is relevant

Where is the intellectual honesty, Rich? What did I say was 'impossible'?

[MightyGiants]

@MightyGiants

Still doesn't answer my question.

Where is the intellectual honesty, Rich? What did I say was 'impossible'?

I think you are a bit hyperbolic in your accusations of intellectual honesty.   Just as my comments may be a bit hyperbolic compared to your original statement (and others made with similar sentiment)

And the inherited guy, played the worst at the most important position. Kinda hard to sustain success with a boat anchor at QB.

I brought up other teams to show it's not as hard as you make it out to be.

[T200]

I think you are a bit hyperbolic in your accusations of intellectual honesty.   Just as my comments may be a bit hyperbolic compared to your original statement (and others made with similar sentiment)

OK, so next time I attribute something to you that you didn't say, then just remember to chalk it up to 'hyperbole'. 

[uconnjack8]

To the OP I don't see how signing Wilson would have made much of a difference this year.  Further, even if he had a chance to compete for the starting job in the summer, would have have chosen the Giants over the Steelers given the team situations?  I guess they could have thrown more money at him, but then I think about what I said in the first sentence.