NGT - QB's Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield -

[Philosophers]

Assuming the Giants draft a QB in 2025, what is the purpose of the "bridge" QB?  I would assume it would be to help the rookie QB learn how to be an NFL QB.  And I don't see how a guy like Fields, who hasn't learned that yet himself can really help a rookie.  Personally, I am not a fan of Fields for a variety of reasons, but in terms of "bridge" I think you would want someone who has been around longer and isn't still trying to find their own way in the NFL.

Fields seems like a guy you would sign if you were hoping to find lightning in a bottle and hope things click for him for whatever reason. 

My assumption was signing him in 2025 as a bridge to 2026 and drafting a QB in 2026 if Fields does not help.

[Doc16LT56]

Darnold and Mayfield are NOT franchise QBs. They are journeyman QBs that teams are able to win with.

They are not good enough that the lesson should be you should invest in many years of losing to reap a Darnold/Mayfield benefit. They are good enough that you should look for a guy like that in free agency when he's ready to take that step forward. You can throw Geno Smith into that group as well. We should've kept Geno instead of wasting 6 years on Daniel Jones.

[katkavage]

My assumption was signing him in 2025 as a bridge to 2026 and drafting a QB in 2026 if Fields does not help.

They should sign Fields as well as draft a QB if they have a top three pick. Let Fields start and have the rookie sit a bit. If Fields excels, the Giants will be in a Darnold/McCarthy situation. Not terrible. They have plenty of picks to fortify other positions and money too for free agents. Be smart for a change.

[kartanoman]

I've said it before.  Maybe Dan Marino was Dan Marino because he was coached by a certain personality (Don Shula) who meshed with him but if he were coached by another personality type (Bill Parcells) he may not have become the QB he became.  Personality fits affect mental psyche which is a huge contributing factor to success.

I think Parcells would have made him a Super Bowl champion, for starters. If not for the timing (1983, Parcells new Head Coach, Simms and Brunner competition), if Young picked Marino instead of Kinard, it would have made for an interesting, yet exciting, alternate universe for the 80s Giants.

Keep in mind that Parcells let Simms air it out in '84 with his first 4,000 yard seasons in team history. What was Marino doing that year?

Interesting!

Peace!

[MightyGiants]

Darnold and Mayfield are NOT franchise QBs. They are journeyman QBs that teams are able to win with.

They are not good enough that the lesson should be you should invest in many years of losing to reap a Darnold/Mayfield benefit. They are good enough that you should look for a guy like that in free agency when he's ready to take that step forward. You can throw Geno Smith into that group as well. We should've kept Geno instead of wasting 6 years on Daniel Jones.

I believe you are better at describing elite QBs, which, by definition, are rare.

Clear Cut elite

Patrick Mahomes (who isn't having a great season this year)
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson


On the edge

Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert


Getting an elite QB is easier said than done.

I would say Mayfield and Darnold are among the non-elite franchise QBs that include

Dak Prescott
Geno Smith
Goff
CJ Stroud (assuming he overcomes his sophomore slump
Jayden Daniels* (may become elite)
Drake Maye*
Bo Nix*
Jordan Love

[Doc16LT56]

I believe you are better at describing elite QBs, which, by definition, are rare.

Clear Cut elite

Patrick Mahomes (who isn't having a great season this year)
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson


On the edge

Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert


Getting an elite QB is easier said than done.

I would say Mayfield and Darnold are among the non-elite franchise QBs that include

Dak Prescott
Geno Smith
Goff
CJ Stroud (assuming he overcomes his sophomore slump
Jayden Daniels* (may become elite)
Drake Maye*
Bo Nix*
Jordan Love

No, we are watering down the meaning of a franchise QB. A real franchise QB is someone you want to invest a generation in, whether he is elite or just below elite. You are committed to winning or losing with that one guy for a generation. You don't bring a guy in like Darnold for a year and call him a one year rental franchise QB.

[MrGap92]

Sam Darnold's projected numbers this year

67% 4182 Yards 33 TD 14 Int 102.5 RTG

Baker Mayfield's projected numbers this year
 
70% 4298 Yards 35 TD 16 Int 101.3 RTG

Both of these QB's were high 1st round draft picks.

It took about sixty starts for both of them to finally emerge as franchise guys.

The Jets and Browns both drafted the right guys, but they became too impatient and got rid of them, not giving them enough time to blossom and mature into what they would be today.

I'm sure both the Jets and Browns regret their decision.

If the Giants are able to draft a new QB this year, hopefully Sanders, then I hope we as Giant fans don't become too impatient with him but allow whoever the new QB is time to blossom and mature to see if he will emerge as the next franchise guy.

 

This is not neccessarily true. I often tell people who say "we should draft this position this round" that is a recipe for failure.

Alot of things go into it besides position, such as schematics, chemistry, etc, just because a player plays good or bad on one team does not mean they are universal with any team. Darnold is a square peg, perhaps Minnesota had a square hole.

To be fair, Baker was fine during most of his time on the Browns, they just got dumb and greedy and it gave them a fourth degree burn. They did Baker dirty. Baker I feel has always been underrated. I don't think he is great or elite. But he is a capable NFL QB in the right system.

Darnold is having a good year, I am still not sold on him overall, and dont think he would be a good fit here as a FA. We'll see if he can replicate it elsewhere. He could be another Geno Smith, who did well in SEA for a year, then now is declining quite a bit.

[Philosophers]

I think Parcells would have made him a Super Bowl champion, for starters. If not for the timing (1983, Parcells new Head Coach, Simms and Brunner competition), if Young picked Marino instead of Kinard, it would have made for an interesting, yet exciting, alternate universe for the 80s Giants.

Keep in mind that Parcells let Simms air it out in '84 with his first 4,000 yard seasons in team history. What was Marino doing that year?

Interesting!

Peace!

You missed my point.  Shula was more player friendly and encouraging.  Parcells coached by getting in player's faces, ridiculing them and getting under their skin.  People respond differently to different types of coaching.  Some embrace one and lose their confidence in others.

[TDToomer]

Clearly the Bucs feel that Mayfield is a franchise QB since they extended him 3/$100MM. Fantastic value. This
Could be the template for what Darnold's agent will want. It just won't be from the Viks.

[BlueMoshik]

I've said it before.  Maybe Dan Marino was Dan Marino because he was coached by a certain personality (Don Shula) who meshed with him but if he were coached by another personality type (Bill Parcells) he may not have become the QB he became.  Personality fits affect mental psyche which is a huge contributing factor to success.

I'm willing to bet that Dan Marino and Bill Parcells would have probably done just fine together. 

[MightyGiants]

I'm willing to bet that Dan Marino and Bill Parcells would have probably done just fine together. 

The men might of gotten along well, but Dan was no fan of the Meadowlands weather

https://nypost.com/2014/01/28/dan-marino-thinks-super-bowl-should-be-in-miami-every-year/

[TDToomer]

The men might of gotten along well, but Dan was no fan of the Meadowlands weather

https://nypost.com/2014/01/28/dan-marino-thinks-super-bowl-should-be-in-miami-every-year/

He would have never gotten accustomed to Miami weather had we drafted him though. He played college in Pittsburgh and would handle NJ just fine.

[uconnjack8]

Parcells was great at understanding how to get the best out of a lot of different kinds of people.  He wasn't always about "getting under peoples skin".  He definitely did that, but he also handled some differently depending on situations and what he felt was best at the time. 

[MightyGiants]

He would have never gotten accustomed to Miami weather had we drafted him though. He played college in Pittsburgh and would handle NJ just fine.

I think it speaks to a bigger but under-appreciated issue.  Where a quarterback plays impacts his numbers.  The Meadowlands (especially in the old stadium) was often a terrible place to throw a football due to the winds.  There were games where it was nearly impossible to throw against the wind.

QBs in domes and nicer weather do have an advantage throwing the football compared to the QBs who play in the harsher elements.  I suspect both Simms and Eli would have had much better numbers in a more favorable stadium.

[Ed Vette]

Clearly the Bucs feel that Mayfield is a franchise QB since they extended him 3/$100MM. Fantastic value. This
Could be the template for what Darnold's agent will want. It just won't be from the Viks.

He got a DJ contract with a two year out. They can cut him after 2025.