NGT - QB's Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield -

[Philosophers]

I'm willing to bet that Dan Marino and Bill Parcells would have probably done just fine together. 

Maybe but I just use Bill.  It can be others.  A QB with one coach does not guarantee same success with another.  The chemistry is huge.

[TDToomer]

He got a DJ contract with a two year out. They can cut him after 2025.

But the difference is they don't want to. They are in the hunt for the division title and have a pretty good offense. He's top 12 in QB rating.

[Ed Vette]

But the difference is they don't want to. They are in the hunt for the division title and have a pretty good offense. He's top 12 in QB rating.

Today.

[MightyGiants]

Today.

Did Baker Mayfield lead his team to the playoff win over the Eagles last year and even make the Pro Bowl?

[Ed Vette]

Did Baker Mayfield lead his team to the playoff win over the Eagles last year and even make the Pro Bowl?

Exactly Rich. He's a career 46-52. Seven years in the league. I liked him coming into the league and thought he was a good QB with potential, if he got over the jackass in him. Not just the flag incident but getting tackled by a police officer. He's been his own worst enemy and I'm happy that he's on the right road with a good coach and team.

They have the two year out. If they make the playoffs, which is a hope and a prayer, he might get that contract extended.

Tampa doesn't do well drafting QBs so they go with proven veterans and have short patience. 20 QBs since Dilfer, who has the most starts this century.

I believe Mayfield has the talent to take a team all the way. Let's see him at least get to the SB. Ask yourselves if you would like him as the Giants Franchise QB starting next season.

[babywhales]

Mayfield had the talent with zero accountability to teammates.  He didn't prepare, was not focused; simply put he was not putting in the work required to succeed as a QB in the NFL.  A new situation, coupled with a new mental mindset that comes with maturity and he is succeeding. 

Jones was mature, was first class with a solid work ethic that could not be questioned by anyone. He just was not as talented and mentally got flustered in pressure situations more than not. Coaches buffered against both but he could not overcome it through 6 seasons

Completely different situations.

 

[sxdxca38]

Darnold and Mayfield are NOT franchise QBs. They are journeyman QBs that teams are able to win with.

They are not good enough that the lesson should be you should invest in many years of losing to reap a Darnold/Mayfield benefit. They are good enough that you should look for a guy like that in free agency when he's ready to take that step forward. You can throw Geno Smith into that group as well. We should've kept Geno instead of wasting 6 years on Daniel Jones.

Hi Doc,

Baker Mayfield is ranked 7th in yards, 3rd in completion percentage, 7th in yards per game, 3rd in TD's, and 9th in QB RTG.

Sam Darnold is ranked 10th in yards, 11th in completion percentage, 5th in TD's, and 7th in QBR RTG.

Both of these QB's have top ten rankings in several of the major categories, these seem like "Franchise QB" numbers to me.

May I ask why you say they are just journeymen players? Just curious?

[Doc16LT56]

Hi Doc,

Baker Mayfield is ranked 7th in yards, 3rd in completion percentage, 7th in yards per game, 3rd in TD's, and 9th in QB RTG.

Sam Darnold is ranked 10th in yards, 11th in completion percentage, 5th in TD's, and 7th in QBR RTG.

Both of these QB's have top ten rankings in several of the major categories, these seem like "Franchise QB" numbers to me.

May I ask why you say they are just journeymen players? Just curious?

No, we are watering down the meaning of a franchise QB. A real franchise QB is someone you want to invest a generation in, whether he is elite or just below elite. You are committed to winning or losing with that one guy for a generation. You don't bring a guy in like Darnold for a year and call him a one year rental franchise QB.

[MrGap92]

Hi Doc,

Baker Mayfield is ranked 7th in yards, 3rd in completion percentage, 7th in yards per game, 3rd in TD's, and 9th in QB RTG.

Sam Darnold is ranked 10th in yards, 11th in completion percentage, 5th in TD's, and 7th in QBR RTG.

Both of these QB's have top ten rankings in several of the major categories, these seem like "Franchise QB" numbers to me.

May I ask why you say they are just journeymen players? Just curious?

How can a guy who has played on 4 teams, and will not be with the Vikings after this season, his first, a franchise QB?

[sxdxca38]

How can a guy who has played on 4 teams, and will not be with the Vikings after this season, his first, a franchise QB?

A) Because you cannot make the assumption that Darnold won't be back with the Vikings, as it's probable but not definitive yet.

B) Because the premise is based off of what Darnold is now (this year) and not what he was.

C) If it's based off of that he won't have a good year next year, then he cannot be considered a franchise QB, if that's what the premise is.

D) Because Mayfield has strung together at least two good seasons in a row, and has matured.

The premise is based off of what both of those QBs are doing now, and not how they performed when they were on the Jets and Browns, although Mayfield I would say was better back then.

[MrGap92]

A) Because you cannot make the assumption that Darnold won't be back with the Vikings, as it's probable but not definitive yet.

B) Because the premise is based off of what Darnold is now (this year) and not what he was.

C) If it's based off of that he won't have a good year next year, then he cannot be considered a franchise QB, if that's what the premise is.

D) Because Mayfield has strung together at least two good seasons in a row, and has matured.

The premise is based off of what both of those QBs are doing now, and not how they performed when they were on the Jets and Browns, although Mayfield I would say was better back then.

They used a high 1st round pick on McCarthy, they are not signing him to a Baker type contract, it just isn't happening. That is as close to a guarantee as you get. Plus they can get Jones as a cheap backup probably.

What he is now, is a journeyman on a one year deal

Stats alone does not = franchise QB. You have two different things mixed up.

[TDToomer]

Exactly Rich. He's a career 46-52. Seven years in the league. I liked him coming into the league and thought he was a good QB with potential, if he got over the jackass in him. Not just the flag incident but getting tackled by a police officer. He's been his own worst enemy and I'm happy that he's on the right road with a good coach and team.

They have the two year out. If they make the playoffs, which is a hope and a prayer, he might get that contract extended.

Tampa doesn't do well drafting QBs so they go with proven veterans and have short patience. 20 QBs since Dilfer, who has the most starts this century.

I believe Mayfield has the talent to take a team all the way. Let's see him at least get to the SB. Ask yourselves if you would like him as the Giants Franchise QB starting next season.

Why are you bringing up an incident with the police from college when he's been been a pro for 6 years now and incident free? You said it best with TB sucking at drafting QBs which means he is not going anywhere this offseason regardless of how they finish.

[Ed Vette]

Why are you bringing up an incident with the police from college when he's been been a pro for 6 years now and incident free? You said it best with TB sucking at drafting QBs which means he is not going anywhere this offseason regardless of how they finish.

Because it is relevant to his cockiness and initial failure. He seems to have turned his career around and he's in a good position to end the year strong. However, if he doesn't, my other point is that the Organization moves on to QBs rather quickly. If there is a lack of faith in him, they may move on after 2025.

[sxdxca38]

They used a high 1st round pick on McCarthy, they are not signing him to a Baker type contract, it just isn't happening. That is as close to a guarantee as you get. Plus they can get Jones as a cheap backup probably.

What he is now, is a journeyman on a one year deal

Stats alone does not = franchise QB. You have two different things mixed up.

Once again, that is an assumption you have made, and you are making absolute statements again without knowing how the future will turn out.

You said he is a journeyman QB, but actually a journeyman QB consistently plays on a one-year deal.

I brought up Baker Mayfield several times now, but you continue to ignore that fact because it refutes what you are trying to promote.

Here is Mayfield's deal, he signed a 3 year 100-million-dollar contract, that isn't a journeyman.

Furthermore, these are Sam Darnold's projected numbers, as I'll repost them again.

67% 4182 Yards 33 TD 14 Int 102.5 RTG

He's 27 years old in the prime of his career, he's going to be getting a nice size contract, which won't be a journeyman type deal.

So, at the end of the year, let's see what kind of contract Sam Darnold receives and how many years its for, and if he's just a journeyman as you claim?

Then we will see who is really confused.

[MrGap92]

Once again, that is an assumption you have made, and you are making absolute statements again without knowing how the future will turn out.

You said he is a journeyman QB, but actually a journeyman QB consistently plays on a one-year deal.

I brought up Baker Mayfield several times now, but you continue to ignore that fact because it refutes what you are trying to promote.

Here is Mayfield's deal, he signed a 3 year 100-million-dollar contract, that isn't a journeyman.

Furthermore, these are Sam Darnold's projected numbers, as I'll repost them again.

67% 4182 Yards 33 TD 14 Int 102.5 RTG

He's 27 years old in the prime of his career, he's going to be getting a nice size contract, which won't be a journeyman type deal.

So, at the end of the year, let's see what kind of contract Sam Darnold receives and how many years its for, and if he's just a journeyman as you claim?

Then we will see who is really confused.

Maybe if you were less focused on antagonizing and actually read what I said I already commented on Baker earlier in the thread. I'm not promoting anything, I'm trying to have a discussion, you are more focused on stirring the pot and trying to get a rise out of people.

It isn't an assumption, they have a first round QB on deck they aren't gonna pay another guy 30+ million a year.

I guess Ryan Fitzpatrick wasn't a journeyman since he played at some stops more than one season? Cmon now