I am broken hearted. No more Lombardi

[T200]

Tim,

As a long-time listener, I can say there are many in the NFL who are on the receiving end of effusive praise by Mike.   He isn't just some gadfly picking at everyone's faults and limitations.  I will say most of the guys who have been the target of Mike's criticisms haven't exactly gone on to have great success. 

I think one of the more interesting criticisms was of Doug Peterson.  Mike was not a fan, and when Doug went on to win a Super Bowl with the Eagles, Mike had to eat a lot of crow.     Yet, after that Super Bowl win, the limitations that Mike pointed to eventually proved to be true.  He was fired from the Eagles and now likely will be fired from the Jags.

I suspect the reason you see Mike as mostly just a critic is that you hear his commentary on the Giants, which is mostly negative.  Yet, in light of the last decade plus of futility, who can say he was wrong?

I hope he and Bill do well in Chapel Hill.

[Doc16LT56]

I agree that it doesn't devalue the knowledge.

My issue with Lombardi is the criticism of those doing the job, not his knowledge. He, of all people, should know from having had the position and not been successful at it, how difficult it is. He didn't do anything in his career that affords him the position to criticize someone else. That's just my take and why I don't hold his views in any regard.

For me personally, I love listening to sports talk, but I can't stand the talking heads who are limited to a meme-level understanding of the game. Lombardi is one of the few I've found that I can listen to and learn something. His real value is in his books and articles. The podcast is a vehicle he uses to share some of the frameworks and theories he has developed in his writing. To me he's a better writer than speaker.

He's a grumpy old guy who is quick to criticize. But he doesn't try to hide that about himself. And to be honest, the Giants have earned all the criticism they've gotten over the past decade.

I second MG's book recommendation. It's very good. Get the audio version and listen to it in the car or while you're exercising, etc. You might change your mind about him.

[T200]

For me personally, I love listening to sports talk, but I can't stand the talking heads who are limited to a meme-level understanding of the game. Lombardi is one of the few I've found that I can listen to and learn something. His real value is in his books and articles. The podcast is a vehicle he uses to share some of the frameworks and theories he has developed in his writing. To me he's a better writer than speaker.

He's a grumpy old guy who is quick to criticize. But he doesn't try to hide that about himself. And to be honest, the Giants have earned all the criticism they've gotten over the past decade.

I second MG's book recommendation. It's very good. Get the audio version and listen to it in the car or while you're exercising, etc. You might change your mind about him.

I don't mind the criticism, per se. I guess it's more a stones and glass house, splinter/plank thing for me.

[coggs]

That's a great point.

Do you think that will increase the quality of draft prospects going to the NFL?

I think you may seem some who get a good NIL deal and could play in the NFL decide to opt out.  Have the attitude that they have made money and they are done. Especially if they are projected to be a fringe or journeyman NFLer. 

[kingm56]

I don't need Bill or you or anyone else to share my view, Rich.

I'm one of one. I create my own drum beat and I march to it. I don't need outside people to validate me. I don't need other people to agree with me. I'm fine if they do and I'm fine if they don't. I own my views.

Maybe you missed it...

The old appeal to authority fallacy.,,

I also prefer my own analysis, free from the burden of outdated concepts.  I have no issues with Mike L; however, I don't view him as the absolute authority on football matters.

[MightyGiants]

The old appeal to authority fallacy.,,

I also prefer my own analysis, free from the burden of outdated concepts.  I have no issues with Mike L; however, I don't view him as the absolute authority on football matters.

There is a vast difference between an expert and an "absolute authority."   

As for your incorrect claims about "appeal to authority"


When is appeal to authority legitimate?

An appeal to authority is not always a fallacy. Citing the informed opinion of an expert is legitimate in an argument when certain criteria is met:

The authority is an expert in the specific subject area under discussion. Citing your cousin who is a law student in a discussion about a legal issue is therefore fallacious. However, citing your lawyer, who is qualified to give advice, is legitimate.

The statement of the authority falls within their area of expertise. If someone is an expert in one area, it does not automatically mean they are an expert in all areas. A medical doctor, for instance, is qualified to speak about diseases, but not about the stock market.

There is agreement among experts about the topic under discussion. Although disputes among experts are part and parcel of the advancement of knowledge, there are certain domains where there is a significant amount of legitimate dispute. For example, for every qualified economist arguing for a certain position or theory, there is another one arguing for an entirely different position.

[T200]

The old appeal to authority fallacy.,,

I also prefer my own analysis, free from the burden of outdated concepts.  I have no issues with Mike L; however, I don't view him as the absolute authority on football matters.

Likewise. I'm not going to rethink my views or question my own eyes because a professional doesn't agree with me. Their expertise makes them no more right or wrong than I am.

Managing people is a dynamic art. Parcells was one of the best. It demonstrated that as much as you want to or would like, you can't treat everyone the same.

Mike has acquired a lot of knowledge since his days as an NFL GM. Let's see if he can apply what he's learned.

[MightyGiants]

Likewise. I'm not going to rethink my views or question my own eyes because a professional doesn't agree with me. Their expertise makes them no more right or wrong than I am.

Managing people is a dynamic art. Parcells was one of the best. It demonstrated that as much as you want to or would like, you can't treat everyone the same.

Mike has acquired a lot of knowledge since his days as an NFL GM. Let's see if he can apply what he's learned.

Tim,

I take the opposite approach.  I greatly value intelligence, knowledge, experience, education, accomplishment, and expertise.  It doesn't guarantee being correct, but it greatly increases the odds.  If a qualified expert doesn't agree with me, it does give me pause to rethink/reconsider my own view.  I don't pretend to be perfect in my views, and I appreciate that real experts know a lot more than I do.   So I will listen to what they have to say.  I consider what they say and how it relates to my own views.  If their case is compelling enough, I will often adjust my own views. 

[T200]

Tim,

I take the opposite approach.  I greatly value intelligence, knowledge, experience, education, accomplishment, and expertise.  It doesn't guarantee being correct, but it greatly increases the odds.  If a qualified expert doesn't agree with me, it does give me pause to rethink/reconsider my own view.  I don't pretend to be perfect in my views, and I appreciate that real experts know a lot more than I do.   So I will listen to what they have to say.  I consider what they say and how it relates to my own views.  If their case is compelling enough, I will often adjust my own views. 

It depends on the subject.

If I have a perspective on a medical issue and you offer your advice, I will strongly consider it because I know you have experience in the medical field.

If we're watching a football game and Daboll calls a flea flicker and Jones gets sacked when he had two receivers wide open and someone like Lombardi says it was a bad play call by Daboll, I'm going to vehemently disagree regardless of his credentials.