From The Beginning, What Went Wrong With The Schoen/Daboll Regime?

[Ed Vette]

Assuming both were still hired, what would you have done differently to get better results?

[Trench]

I made a thread about time of possesion and how it correlates to wins and losses (Madden always used to talk about that stat).

To me, I see the time of possesion as a critical measure to analyze what has gone wrong and I believe the answer is Red Zone play calling and offense in general. Obviously Daboll offense can move us down the field but he can't get us into the end zone. All the teams ahead of us in time of possesion are basically in the playoffs yet we are the worst team in the league. To me it is apparent something is broken at the goal line (whatever it is) play calling or Oline or QB who knows?

[coggs]

Knowing what we know now?  Not extended Jones and signed one of the FA QB's that year.  From there, no way of knowing how things would have transpired in terms of draft picks, records, etc.

[katkavage]

Knowing what we know now?  Not extended Jones and signed one of the FA QB's that year.  From there, no way of knowing how things would have transpired in terms of draft picks, records, etc.

They should have moved on from Jones when they took over. And then the curse of 2022 happened masking how bad they really were. A savvy GM and coach would have seen through the mirage. It wasn't that hidden.

[Giantleap56]

For Schoen keeping good players was never a priority for him. He was to focused on creating cap space. Now you have cap space and inferior talent.
Daboll was never good he is a hot head and his faults are mainly in him. Never looks himself in the mirror and looking to point fingers. It irks the staff and team the wrong way. He isn't a good play caller or communicator. Xs and Os not going anywhere with that. Players that look promising tend to disappear they regress.

[andrew_nyGiants]

If you hire a new regime. Hire one that YOU KNOW, knows more about building a roster and a culture than you do and stay out of the way.

This regime has never had that so we'll never know if they are the right people for the job.

This is why we've had so much turnover in the FO.

Until that changes, we're going to continue to stink.

This is why I wanted Bellichick. At the very least he would've ripped the Mara band aide off and set up a culture of accountability.


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[President Rick]

flipping through games on tv this weekend, it was amazing to see so many former Giants starting/playing for other teams.  we've had the talent in many areas but not the ability to win with it or retain it.

my son says we need to play money ball.  field a team of B to B+ players, guys who are healthy and dependable, forget the shiny hood ornaments and the crushing one-two player salaries - at least until the nfl creates a separate qb cap category, which IMO they will -  and build depth that way too [solid B- to C back-up players rather than street FA's], and go forward.

[files58]

In a word, Mara. I don't believe the regime wanted anything to do with Jones at QB. Then 2022 happened, and then Mara opened his mouth with "we've done everything we could to screw this kid up".

[babywhales]

I think both learned along the way and are getting better.

The one mistake that can not be undone was the contract extension for Jones and his inability to take the next developmental step. Jones should have been franchised.

It is looking like that mistake will cost both their jobs.

[PSUBeirut]

I was truly discouraged with I saw on Hard Knocks.  So many times in life, you just assume that people who reach the highest pinnacles of their profession are inherently smarter or have it "together" at a much higher level than the rest of society (whatever it is....healthcare, school administration, CEOs, congressman).  And, in my experience, the more you actually meet these folks or get to see behind the curtain the more you realize they just ain't as smart as you've assumed they were.

This was the case for me when watching Schoen and Daboll on Hard Knocks.  I assumed they had a concrete plan.  I assumed they had a true framework for decision making and team building.  I assumed they were hand in hand in creation and execution of this plan.  And what I saw, instead, was scattered thinking....reactive reasoning... a lack of a true framework for change and short and long term action steps to get where they needed to go that were practical. 

In short, they don't really have a plan that is cohesive and I worry they may never get there.  BUT, I'm on board for giving them another year with a QB of their choosing.  Not because I believe they're all that great but because there's no telling what else out there we'd hire that could actually be WORSE. 

[coggs]

For Schoen keeping good players was never a priority for him. He was to focused on creating cap space. Now you have cap space and inferior talent.
Daboll was never good he is a hot head and his faults are mainly in him. Never looks himself in the mirror and looking to point fingers. It irks the staff and team the wrong way. He isn't a good play caller or communicator. Xs and Os not going anywhere with that. Players that look promising tend to disappear they regress.

I think the issue is not about keeping good players.  Our good players have been at positions that are generally not a priority for committing cap space.  RB, S.

[katkavage]

I think both learned along the way and are getting better.

The one mistake that can not be undone was the contract extension for Jones and his inability to take the next developmental step. Jones should have been franchised.

It is looking like that mistake will cost both their jobs.

Define better? 2-12?

[katkavage]

I was truly discouraged with I saw on Hard Knocks.  So many times in life, you just assume that people who reach the highest pinnacles of their profession are inherently smarter or have it "together" at a much higher level than the rest of society (whatever it is....healthcare, school administration, CEOs, congressman).  And, in my experience, the more you actually meet these folks or get to see behind the curtain the more you realize they just ain't as smart as you've assumed they were.

This was the case for me when watching Schoen and Daboll on Hard Knocks.  I assumed they had a concrete plan.  I assumed they had a true framework for decision making and team building.  I assumed they were hand in hand in creation and execution of this plan.  And what I saw, instead, was scattered thinking....reactive reasoning... a lack of a true framework for change and short and long term action steps to get where they needed to go that were practical. 

In short, they don't really have a plan that is cohesive and I worry they may never get there.  BUT, I'm on board for giving them another year with a QB of their choosing.  Not because I believe they're all that great but because there's no telling what else out there we'd hire that could actually be WORSE.

Worse than a 2-win season preceded by a 5-win season?

[MrGap92]

A few things I'd do differently, assuming it is with foresight knowing what we know now.

- Not resign Jones, let him walk and use some of that money to resign Saquon sooner. I would have given Tyrod a 3 yr deal instead of a 2yr deal to be the bridge QB over this duration.

- Resign Julian Love

- Draft Linderbaum instead of Neal. Since JMS is no longer needed, draft Tank Dell with that pick.

- Sign Eleumenor in 2022 instead of 2024.

- Play starters more in preseason, and less OL shuffling.

- Not trade for Hyatt, use those picks for DeVon Achane and Puka Nacua

- If there was anything that could be done to snag Ken Dorsey as OC in 2022, get it done

- Same for Dennard Wilson as DC this season.

- Not trade for Banks, draft Joey Porter Jr a pick later, and use picks 160/240 for Jarrett Patterson and Ivan Pace Jr.

That has us going into 2024 still needing a QB, but our coordinators are significantly better, and the new QB has a WR trio of Nabers/Nacua/Dell and Barkley/Achane/Tracy at RB along with an OL upgrade at C.

Biggest Needs 2024 at this point: QB, RG, Swing, DT, CB

I'd push hard for Trey Smith and Paulson Adebo, and then see how the draft falls. In a perfect world after two rounds we get Ward or Sanders and Deone Walker.

[Doc16LT56]

The elephant on the field is the QB position. Obviously that was mishandled from the start. But even this past off-season, you have to invest in a really good backup QB.

One of the other issues I heard Bobby Skinner bring up is the secondary. I don't think people are talking enough about how disappointing this group has been. They've invested a 1st round pick, a 2nd, two 3rds, and a 4th in the last 3 years. Yet, we're last in INTs and 3rd to last in PDs, 3rd to last in completion percentage,  and 5th to last in yards per completion. It's a real problem considering the draft capital they invested.