Giants floating the idea of firing Daboll but keeping Schoen

[madbadger]

Schoen wasn't able to keep his best players. His roster now is worse than the one he inherited from the godawful Gettleman. It's not just the drafts. He's been a complete failure!

What did the cap look like his first two years? You act like his hands weren't tied behind his back and he didn't have an owner who pounded the table when it came to giving Jones a big deal.

[BlueMoshik]

What did the cap look like his first two years? You act like his hands weren't tied behind his back and he didn't have an owner who pounded the table when it came to giving Jones a big deal.

Nobody knows what happened behind the scenes. People keep saying this but it's all speculation. I have not seen any sign that Schoen didn't want Jones and was forced by Mara. Frankly it seems like BS. If Schoen makes big (and dumb) decisions like that because the team's nepo baby owner tells him, then he's not the GM the Giants need. Either way he's a failure and needs to go.   

[Gmo11]

Nobody knows what happened behind the scenes. People keep saying this but it's all speculation. I have not seen any sign that Schoen didn't want Jones and was forced by Mara. Frankly it seems like BS. If Schoen makes big (and dumb) decisions like that because the team's nepo baby owner tells him, then he's not the GM the Giants need. Either way he's a failure and needs to go.   

You don't consider him not picking up the 5th year a clear sign? I sure do.

People are freakiNG out over what is likely to be a 2-15 season and not seeing any of the big picture.


Look at the guys that are on IR and how many of them will be starting week 1 next season. Look at the guys on the field and how many of them will not be on the team next season. This team that's playing now has to look this bad. HAS TO. Because if they win even one game they go from the #1 pick to the 7th pick and next year looks a lot more like this year regardless of who the coach and GM are because they still won't have a competent QB.

The Giants are tanking and it's not exactly what they should be doing. Coaches will never coach to lose. Players will never play to lose. The only way to actually tank is to put everybody on IR.

With that being said how can we hold these losses right now against them when it's the best thing for the team? Jones was an unmitigated disaster brought on by the fact that Daboll in particular but also Schoen did a masterful job in 2022. So good in fact that it set the Giants back 3 years. This team was never going to do any meaningful winning with him at QB. Schoen knew it. Daboll knew it. Mara and half the fans didn't. And that led to a whole mess of problems they're still trying to clean up now.

But they're almost done. With a competent QB and an average off season this team will be in the wild card hunt next year. The team is solidly built outside of the toughest position to play and acquire. Hell even the OL was playing well to start the season before everybody got hurt.

I don't know what they are actually going to do. I think there's a good case to keep both. And a good case to can both if you focus on just the record. But I maintain the only really stupid thing they could do is keep one but not the other. For the love of God don't do that.

[Philosophers]

You don't consider him not picking up the 5th year a clear sign? I sure do.

People are freakiNG out over what is likely to be a 2-15 season and not seeing any of the big picture.


Look at the guys that are on IR and how many of them will be starting week 1 next season. Look at the guys on the field and how many of them will not be on the team next season. This team that's playing now has to look this bad. HAS TO. Because if they win even one game they go from the #1 pick to the 7th pick and next year looks a lot more like this year regardless of who the coach and GM are because they still won't have a competent QB.

The Giants are tanking and it's not exactly what they should be doing. Coaches will never coach to lose. Players will never play to lose. The only way to actually tank is to put everybody on IR.

With that being said how can we hold these losses right now against them when it's the best thing for the team? Jones was an unmitigated disaster brought on by the fact that Daboll in particular but also Schoen did a masterful job in 2022. So good in fact that it set the Giants back 3 years. This team was never going to do any meaningful winning with him at QB. Schoen knew it. Daboll knew it. Mara and half the fans didn't. And that led to a whole mess of problems they're still trying to clean up now.

But they're almost done. With a competent QB and an average off season this team will be in the wild card hunt next year. The team is solidly built outside of the toughest position to play and acquire. Hell even the OL was playing well to start the season before everybody got hurt.

I don't know what they are actually going to do. I think there's a good case to keep both. And a good case to can both if you focus on just the record. But I maintain the only really stupid thing they could do is keep one but not the other. For the love of God don't do that.

Wild Card hunt?  If you get a competent QB and have an average off season as you suggest, this team will still have no depth.  Giants nearly always are among league leaders in most injured players.  Giants are years away from having competent depth.

[Doc16LT56]

This is pure excuse making for a bumbling regime. How many players were on IR week 1 when they lost 28-6 and the season was clearly lost by October?

Since the second half of 2022, the Schoen and Daboll regime is 10-28-1. Has any team in the NFL been worse? And they've earned the right to return in 2025 why? They haven't earned anything. The people who are desperate to bring them back believe so because they've bought into the low standards, excuse making culture that has plagued this organization for years.

[katkavage]

This is pure excuse making for a bumbling regime. How many players were on IR week 1 when they lost 28-6 and the season was clearly lost by October?

Since the second half of 2022, the Schoen and Daboll regime is 10-28-1. Has any team in the NFL been worse? And they've earned the right to return in 2025 why? They haven't earned anything. The people who are desperate to bring them back believe so because they've bought into the low standards, excuse making culture that has plagued this organization for years.
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You don't consider him not picking up the 5th year a clear sign? I sure do.

People are freakiNG out over what is likely to be a 2-15 season and not seeing any of the big picture.


Look at the guys that are on IR and how many of them will be starting week 1 next season. Look at the guys on the field and how many of them will not be on the team next season. This team that's playing now has to look this bad. HAS TO. Because if they win even one game they go from the #1 pick to the 7th pick and next year looks a lot more like this year regardless of who the coach and GM are because they still won't have a competent QB.

The Giants are tanking and it's not exactly what they should be doing. Coaches will never coach to lose. Players will never play to lose. The only way to actually tank is to put everybody on IR.

With that being said how can we hold these losses right now against them when it's the best thing for the team? Jones was an unmitigated disaster brought on by the fact that Daboll in particular but also Schoen did a masterful job in 2022. So good in fact that it set the Giants back 3 years. This team was never going to do any meaningful winning with him at QB. Schoen knew it. Daboll knew it. Mara and half the fans didn't. And that led to a whole mess of problems they're still trying to clean up now.

But they're almost done. With a competent QB and an average off season this team will be in the wild card hunt next year. The team is solidly built outside of the toughest position to play and acquire. Hell even the OL was playing well to start the season before everybody got hurt.

I don't know what they are actually going to do. I think there's a good case to keep both. And a good case to can both if you focus on just the record. But I maintain the only really stupid thing they could do is keep one but not the other. For the love of God don't do that.

The Giants had a bad QB (the GM passed on drafting one last year when one was needed if they thought their QB was bad) yet they were healthy for the early part of the this season. They got trounced on opening day this year and last. They were woefully unprepared to play. And that preparedness has continued. That's on the coach. There has been absolutely nothing masterful about his coaching nor Schoen's GM tenure in the three years here. You want to look at 2022 which we all know now was a mirage with a few very fortunate wins and spurred by the legs of a running back. That season hid what we see now. If you look at it any other way, you better get new glasses.

[coggs]

Nobody knows what happened behind the scenes. People keep saying this but it's all speculation. I have not seen any sign that Schoen didn't want Jones and was forced by Mara. Frankly it seems like BS. If Schoen makes big (and dumb) decisions like that because the team's nepo baby owner tells him, then he's not the GM the Giants need. Either way he's a failure and needs to go.   

Yes, but IF that is the case, the next GM is going to be doing the same thing.  It is the "Giants way".

[BlueMoshik]

We are two years past the stage of "oh, all they need is their own QB". We are in year two of horrible football and a team going backwards, far beyond the limitations of Daniel Jones - who WAS their QB. They chose him over Saquon Barkley and there is no spinning that. We have arguably the worst roster in the NFL, which was NOT the case when they arrived. The team was healthy in game 1 last year when they were crushed by Dallas 40-0 and game 1 this year when they got crushed 28-6. Frankly I think some of you are completely delusional about this team, like a really bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. 

[BlueMoshik]

Yes, but IF that is the case, the next GM is going to be doing the same thing.  It is the "Giants way".

We the fans are in a really depressing place if we think that the team shouldn't replace a GM and HC after a 2-15 season because the owner is so incompetent he might choose people even worse. But I guess that's where we are.

[MightyGiants]

This is pure excuse making for a bumbling regime. How many players were on IR week 1 when they lost 28-6 and the season was clearly lost by October?

Since the second half of 2022, the Schoen and Daboll regime is 10-28-1. Has any team in the NFL been worse? And they've earned the right to return in 2025 why? They haven't earned anything. The people who are desperate to bring them back believe so because they've bought into the low standards, excuse making culture that has plagued this organization for years.

Even the injury issue is a problem that has plagued the Giants for years. It's not like this year was some sort of special year where injuries were more prevalent than usual.

[andrew_nyGiants]

I admit that I maybe suffering the syndrome.

I want to keep Schoen if he could hire Vrabel or find a legit HC.

Why you ask? Because I do not trust Mara to make the right choices in another house cleaning.

The most worrisome thing to me about Daboll is the QB room. I've walked around believing that they were both trying to teach Mara a lesson by trying to build an offense with what they had left to show that they cleaned out the cupboard in deference to Mara/Jones contract.

The problem in my mind is we continue to have a terrible medical staff, no OL depth, and two remaining QB's who make the team look like the Judge Giants.

We're in our second year of Tommy DeVito. Do they think he's going to become Baker Mayfield?!

QB is the most important position on the team, if they cannot have at least pedestrian depth there, how can we trust their ability to develop a top 3 rookie QB?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[katkavage]

We the fans are in a really depressing place if we think that the team shouldn't replace a GM and HC after a 2-15 season because the owner is so incompetent he might choose people even worse. But I guess that's where we are.

Exactly.

[coggs]

We the fans are in a really depressing place if we think that the team shouldn't replace a GM and HC after a 2-15 season because the owner is so incompetent he might choose people even worse. But I guess that's where we are.

That is not my point.  My point is the next GM is still going to have to deal with Mara's input IF what you stated is in fact true.  They are not going to hire a GM that is not going to respect their system and hierarchy.

[Gmo11]

We are two years past the stage of "oh, all they need is their own QB". We are in year two of horrible football and a team going backwards, far beyond the limitations of Daniel Jones - who WAS their QB. They chose him over Saquon Barkley and there is no spinning that. We have arguably the worst roster in the NFL, which was NOT the case when they arrived. The team was healthy in game 1 last year when they were crushed by Dallas 40-0 and game 1 this year when they got crushed 28-6. Frankly I think some of you are completely delusional about this team, like a really bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. 

It was not a choice of one or the other.  It was a choice of doing what they had to do to try and keep both.  But Barkley didn't want to come back anyway so I'm not sure they could have done anything short of give him an insane over pay contract to keep him and if they had he'd be having the same type of season he had the last 5 which is good but not great because the Eagles, unlike the Giants, have a living breathing NFL QB that can run an offense and not allow defenses to stack the box to try and stop him knowing they will not pay for that on the back end.

Yes, they lost 28-6 Week 1.  I was at that game.  They win it going away with a QB that can read a defense.  Guys were open constantly.  All over the field.  It was not the only game this season where that was the case. 

The team that's playing now can't win, and that's on purpose.  Doesn't matter if you go back in time and get Lombardi/Landry/and Belichick in his prime to come coach these guys they will lose and it's exactly what they should do right now.  One more win, and we get another year of this crap next year.  If they lose out, we get hope with a new QB and while I don't know how good or bad Sanders or Ward will end up being when their careers are over, I find it impossible to believe they will be worse than what we've had to endure the last 6 years.  It would be an incredible feat to somehow out stink Jones/Devito/Lock etc.

This is a solid roster.  Not perfect, not complete, but close enough in today's NFL with a hard salary cap.  Nobody has depth everywhere.  The Giants actually do have depth at WR where Hyatt can't even get on the field.  They need some help that this offseason could provide but the most important thing they need, the thing that makes coaches/GMs everything else mean nothing without, is a new QB. If they get that pick right, and that new QB is actually good, this team will absolutely be a playoff caliber team next season.  It's easier said than done, but that's the job.

A while back we all discussed was it better to build a team and get the QB last, or get the QB first and then build the team.  Well...this is how it looks when you get the QB last.  That as I recall was the more popular choice.  But you can't get that QB unless you have a 2-15 lifeless stinker of a season.  Winning 4 or 5 games this year does nothing.  Winning 2 games does everything.

[Doc16LT56]

So to summarize:

Schoen and Daboll go into 2024 with Daniel Jones at QB and no real backup... NOT THEIR FAULT

They would've won in week 1 if not for Daniel Jones and were powerless to scheme around him... NOT THEIR FAULT

The season fell apart because of Daniel Jones and it had nothing to do with Schoen and Daboll... NOT THEIR FAULT

After cutting Jones, with no contingency plan, and with everyone else going on IR, it's no longer possible for Schoen and Daboll to field a competitive team... NOT THEIR FAULT

Also, last season the team stunk... NOT THEIR FAULT

The second half of 2022, the team stunk... NOT THEIR FAULT

Everyone they drafted on the offensive line is a bust... NOT THEIR FAULT

Spent a ton of draft capital on the secondary but can't get interceptions or passes defended... NOT THEIR FAULT

Okay, now it all makes sense. Everything went to xxxx, but nothing is their fault. Of course we should trust Schoen and Daboll to draft and develop a young franchise QB.

Look, it's fine for fans to root for the 1st overall draft pick. It's not okay for a GM and coach to execute on that wish. And it's not okay to be powerless within the circumstances you find yourself. We need leaders, not guys who can do well if everything is made easy for them.