Giants floating the idea of firing Daboll but keeping Schoen

[Gmo11]

I'm sorry but some of you have lost the plot. Your job as a GM is not to get to get the #1 pick in the draft every year. That's actually a sign that you did a terrible job and should probably be fired. And the job of the HC is never to lose on purpose, are you insane? That's the job of the fan, maybe, to root for a loss at the end of the season, and even then no fan should enjoy it. Once coaches start losing on purpose, you can shut down professional sports. I swear the NFL model has driven some fans absolutely bonkers to the point where they don't prize their team winning at all, just having a great off-season. Also, trust me, even by your logic, the Giants aren't losing on purpose now. Daboll is coaching for his job and the players are trying. They are just really, really bad. And that falls on three guys: Mara, Daboll, and Schoen. Unfortunately, only two of those guys can be fired.

The job of a GM is to win the Super Bowl.  You can't win the Super Bowl without at the very least an above average QB.  You can't get one of those unless you draft them or get extremely lucky.  You can't draft one unless you get a top pick or get extremely lucky. They have to get that QB and get him now.  This is the most efficient way to do it.  They have to pick the right QB but if they do none of this screaming and yelling will ever be remembered. 

[Doc16LT56]

The job of a GM is to win the Super Bowl.  You can't win the Super Bowl without at the very least an above average QB.  You can't get one of those unless you draft them or get extremely lucky.  You can't draft one unless you get a top pick or get extremely lucky. They have to get that QB and get him now.  This is the most efficient way to do it.  They have to pick the right QB but if they do none of this screaming and yelling will ever be remembered. 

Assuming they get their QB. Are you committed to keeping Daboll as HC in 2026 if the QB has a rookie year like Caleb (both the good and the bad) and the team loses a lot of games? In other words, would you be willing to commit to Daboll even after 3 consecutive seasons of double digit losses?

[Gmo11]

Assuming they get their QB. Are you committed to keeping Daboll as HC in 2026 if the QB has a rookie year like Caleb (both the good and the bad) and the team loses a lot of games? In other words, would you be willing to commit to Daboll even after 3 consecutive seasons of double digit losses?

I'd say probably not.  If he still can't make it work with another QB that he picked himself then I'd be ready to call it.  But from what I've seen of this offense everybody seems to be in sync and doing exactly what they should be doing except the QB.  So I find it hard to believe they bring in a capable QB whether it's Sanders or Ward and they still lose double digit games.

To be fair I even said I wouldn't be too upset if they dumped him this year.  I totally get it if they do.  And if they dump one they HAVE To dump the other.  I just wouldn't do it yet because I don't think the Jones debacle was entirely on them and that tanked them before they even had a chance to get their footing.

[Doc16LT56]

I'd say probably not.  If he still can't make it work with another QB that he picked himself then I'd be ready to call it.  But from what I've seen of this offense everybody seems to be in sync and doing exactly what they should be doing except the QB.  So I find it hard to believe they bring in a capable QB whether it's Sanders or Ward and they still lose double digit games.

To be fair I even said I wouldn't be too upset if they dumped him this year.  I totally get it if they do.  And if they dump one they HAVE To dump the other.  I just wouldn't do it yet because I don't think the Jones debacle was entirely on them and that tanked them before they even had a chance to get their footing.

I was open to bringing back Daboll and Schoen earlier in the season. But as I thought about drafting a QB #1 overall, I thought it would be a mistake to bring that player into an organization with no stability in the coaching staff. I would have to go with a head coach that I am committed to beyond one year. I also can't ask a rookie QB to come in and be a savior on day 1. The rookie's job is to learn how to be successful in the NFL. Anything beyond that in year 1 is gravy.

Schoen I now see as more of an empty suit. He isn't doing anything Jerry Reese couldn't do. He's easily replaceable as long as you aren't hiring a big mouth like Gettleman.

[MightyGiants]

I'd say probably not.  If he still can't make it work with another QB that he picked himself then I'd be ready to call it.  But from what I've seen of this offense everybody seems to be in sync and doing exactly what they should be doing except the QB.  So I find it hard to believe they bring in a capable QB whether it's Sanders or Ward and they still lose double digit games.

To be fair I even said I wouldn't be too upset if they dumped him this year.  I totally get it if they do.  And if they dump one they HAVE To dump the other.  I just wouldn't do it yet because I don't think the Jones debacle was entirely on them and that tanked them before they even had a chance to get their footing.

Have you noticed how often the guy playing QB for the Giants has been getting hurt?   What makes you think the drafted guy won't suffer the same fate?

[coggs]

Not a good comparison at all. The Giants went 4-12 in 2003 but had gone to the playoffs the year before and the SB 3 seasons prior. The Giants still had an excellent defense but Fassell had lost the locker room and made several bad decisions running the offense. The team was 4-4 and lost their last 8. Accorsi was going to retire anyway and hand things off to Jerry Reese, which he did two years later once Eli had settled in. Schoen isn't anywhere near that. 

Went to the Super Bowl and got their asses kicked.  More was expected out of that team and once it was obvious they weren't going to make the play-offs, some wanted them to tank and others wanted them to play out.  When they got a QB, nobody complained about the 2003 losing down the stretch.

[BlueMoshik]

Went to the Super Bowl and got their asses kicked.  More was expected out of that team and once it was obvious they weren't going to make the play-offs, some wanted them to tank and others wanted them to play out.  When they got a QB, nobody complained about the 2003 losing down the stretch.

Yeah, it's still a poor comparison that doesn't tell you anything about the Giants situation in 2024.

[Philosophers]

Folks are out of their mind if they think we should let Schoen/Dabs pick their QB then if next year is bad, fire them and get your rookie his 2nd set of GM/HC/OC/QB Coach to work with.  How will that likely end up?  Oh those coaches didnt pick him to be QB.  If we are getting a new QB fire them both now.

[T200]

Folks are out of their mind if they think we should let Schoen/Dabs pick their QB then if next year is bad, fire them and get your rookie his 2nd set of GM/HC/OC/QB Coach to work with.  How will that likely end up?  Oh those coaches didnt pick him to be QB.  If we are getting a new QB fire them both now.

Normally I'd agree with you. But there's a difference in being hamstrung with a guy who was forced at #6 and a Sanders or Ward. I don't think too many prospective coaches would have a problem inheriting one of them in just their second year.

[Philosophers]

Normally I'd agree with you. But there's a difference in being hamstrung with a guy who was forced at #6 and a Sanders or Ward. I don't think too many prospective coaches would have a problem inheriting one of them in just their second year.

I think there are enough questions about both Sanders and Ward that may not be 100% true.  Some coaches may not like either.

[T200]

I think there are enough questions about both Sanders and Ward that may not be 100% true.  Some coaches may not like either.

You just reworded what I said.

I doubt there's anyone who would rather have Jones over Sanders or Ward. Very few prospects (QB or otherwise) will garner 100% consensus.

[Ed Vette]

I only say this because it's something I might do. Would Joe Schoen have signed Drew Lock as the backup because if he had to play, the season would be lost, and Jones would be cut in 2025? Meaning they had no confidence in him. Daboll started Tommy over him after being 2-8, and still some playoff hopes. In other words, tank by signing Lock over Tyrod. Nahhh...

[TDToomer]

I only say this because it's something I might do. Would Joe Schoen have signed Drew Lock as the backup because if he had to play, the season would be lost, and Jones would be cut in 2025? Meaning they had no confidence in him. Daboll started Tommy over him after being 2-8, and still some playoff hopes. In other words, tank by signing Lock over Tyrod. Nahhh...

Lock was signed to potentially have to start game 1 if Jones wasn't ready. He was never signed to suck as bad as he has. Schoen just wiffed on his choice of a backup like Gettlemen did with the guy in Fletch's photo.

[T200]

I only say this because it's something I might do. Would Joe Schoen have signed Drew Lock as the backup because if he had to play, the season would be lost, and Jones would be cut in 2025? Meaning they had no confidence in him. Daboll started Tommy over him after being 2-8, and still some playoff hopes. In other words, tank by signing Lock over Tyrod. Nahhh...

As you well know, that's been my supposition all along.

[nb587]

I'm in favor of keeping them both. That said, Daboll started out strong in 2022 and has fallen back big time since then although I think there are real reasons for this beyond his control.  Schoen, however, started out badly with a weak draft in 22 & 23 but recovered in 24 with a strong draft.  He also turned around a horrible CAP situation inherited from you know who.  Hard for me to fire him after that.

Another thought.  The OL that started the year was way better than previous years.  To ignore that is poor thinking.  Its hard building a good starting 5 in 1 year let alone build quality depth especially when the guy you lose first is your star.  I think that problem will be addressed in the draft & free agency especially with a rookie QB