Daboll

[AYM]

guys generally got a longer leash back then. we live in the instant gratification age. if you dont get results quickly and stay progressing, you are gone.

Jimmy Johnson did get results quickly even by modern standards.

He took over an old 3-13 team. They went 1-15 the next year (worse) but 7-9 the following year, where they even met Mara's bare minimum of a successful season because their last game was meaningful. The following year they were 11-5 and after that they won the Superbowl.

[B1GBLUE]

Jimmy Johnson did get results quickly even by modern standards.

He took over an old 3-13 team. They went 1-15 the next year (worse) but 7-9 the following year, where they even met Mara's bare minimum of a successful season because their last game was meaningful. The following year they were 11-5 and after that they won the Superbowl.

and thats decent progress. i dont think anyone expects a full turnaround year 1. but every year, gotta get a little better. we have gone from barely decent, to really bad, to the WORST. sorry but thats how you get fired in the NFL. Sure we had qb issues but the rest of the team is SO BAD.

[Ed Vette]

Basically five starters were out yesterday. Is that too much of a handicap to overcome? QB, RT and Guard are tough losses. Daboll called a balanced game, but they just couldn't get anything going. It's incredible how badly Lock has looked after being in this Offense all year. Why all three QBs struggled to get their passes out in time, is eye opening. It has to be how they are coached. So fearful of getting picked that they are basically ineffective. With the exception of Dex and Okereke, this Defensive was all starters. Those are two huge losses, but points were either given up on field position because of turnovers and/or deadly penalties that killed drives. This team totally lacks discipline. The failure to have adequate backups at key positions, is on Schoen too.

I look at Denver and see a team on the rise. There is every expectation that they will be competing for a Championship next season. In their second season with Payton the team has been completely turned around. Look at what Washington has done in one season and it's not all Daniels but he's a key component. Dan Campbell took over a horrible Lions team but the last three seasons they have gone from 3-13 to 9-8, to 12-5 and now at 13-2 are one of the two best teams in the Conference.

[Woody]

Dabs , Dubs what ever you want to call him should not be back ...his teams are awful and not at the least competitive at all.  No excuse for that .....even during 70's and many other bad years of Giant football the teams were sometimes competitive and didn't get blown out week after week. Believe I have seen them all since the first plane that said "15 years of lost Football , enough". Giants were not good over the years but they would at least score a few late game TD's when the other teams were secured of their win.... this team can't do that ...yesterday.  last drive.  1st and goal from 3 yard line ...penalty penalty and a fourth down incomplete pass from the 22 yard line .....really same mistakes over and over and every week !!! That is coaching ! That dive summed up the Giants season . a complete and total mess of a team.
why would any good FA want to come play for this mess? If Daboll is retained and he tries to get different coaches to come .....who would  ? What good coach would come here knowing Daboll is head coach and will be on the hot seat to win next years first preseason game !
I don't want to hear about injuries ....Detroit has just as many if not more and look at them..
Daboll won't give up play calling ????? So the 10 point average pregame for the offense is all his responsibility ..Even last year they were more competitive than now...
Mara has to fire Him and send a message to all NFL players and coaches things may be different next year and provide a little hope for obtaining  new talent on the field and in the coaching ranks ...

Mr. Mara , tear down this mess !

[T200]

We have to stop blaming Daniel Jones.  He is not on the team and they are still losing and even look worse.  Is that because they have bad backup QBs?  Whose fault is that?  Yes, Dabs and Schoen.

This team is in ruins.  Nobody is playing hard.  Lay the blame where it belongs in both Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen.  People need to stop pointing at one attribute to say "Joe Schoen deserves to stay because of 2024 Draft."  No because for 1 thing he did well, he failed on 4 others.  It's not a good ratio.  Same with Daboll.  Coach of the year in 2022 to worse record each year thereafter.

Fire this group and start over.  How can anyone who watches them play think otherwise?  It's not just QB play or offense play or this or that.  It's everything. 

I and others have laid out why we think otherwise. Some of you just don't acknowledge it or attempt to shut us down.

I get that you don't agree but don't pretend that other perspectives haven't been put out there.

[MightyGiants]

Jimmy Johnson did get results quickly even by modern standards.

He took over an old 3-13 team. They went 1-15 the next year (worse) but 7-9 the following year, where they even met Mara's bare minimum of a successful season because their last game was meaningful. The following year they were 11-5 and after that they won the Superbowl.

JJ was aided by one of the dumbest trades in NFL history.  The Vikings gave up massive draft picks for an okay RB, Hershel Walker.

[Woody]

Basically five starters were out yesterday. Is that too much of a handicap to overcome? QB, RT and Guard are tough losses. Daboll called a balanced game, but they just couldn't get anything going. It's incredible how badly Lock has looked after being in this Offense all year. Why all three QBs struggled to get their passes out in time, is eye opening. It has to be how they are coached. So fearful of getting picked that they are basically ineffective. With the exception of Dex and Okereke, this Defensive was all starters. Those are two huge losses, but points were either given up on field position because of turnovers and/or deadly penalties that killed drives. This team totally lacks discipline. The failure to have adequate backups at key positions, is on Schoen too.

I look at Denver and see a team on the rise. There is every expectation that they will be competing for a Championship next season. In their second season with Payton the team has been completely turned around. Look at what Washington has done in one season and it's not all Daniels but he's a key component. Dan Campbell took over a horrible Lions team but the last three seasons they have gone from 3-13 to 9-8, to 12-5 and now at 13-2 are one of the two best teams in the Conference.

esdxres43wa44ertyu
exactly ...injuries or not , Detroit has many, Daboll teams are headed in wrong direction as a result of his and Shoens personnel decisions and coaching . Enough , period !

[Gmo11]

Does anybody really want the Giants to win either of these last two games?  If the answer is yes, I would be confused as to why and would to hear the explanation.  If the answer is no, how can we be so furious over Daboll/Schoen doing what they need to do in order to turn this franchise around.  This type of a season was supposed to be 2022.  Instead it's now. But it's necessary in order to properly build a franchise.  This is how they become pretty good in 2025 and potentially great in 2026 provided they end up getting the correct QB.

[files58]

George Young wanted to fire Parcells after 83'went they went 3-12-1, but Howard Schnellenberger didn't want the job. How did that turn out? True that was Parcells first year, and they made the playoffs in 84', but the elements were in place(LT etc). Schoen/Dabol inherited a catastrophic mess from Gettleman which very much resembled the Giants of the first Dark Age. Those who fanned during that time, how much of a difference was there between Robustelli and Gettleman from the perspective of being part of the Giant family? History repeats because a Mara just doesn't change tactics, or goes and just sits in the box counting the $5 billion they have increased in value the past ten years. It took Young/Perkins/Parcells really five years(79' to 84') to make them a bonafide contender, and that's with a more talented base roster to start with. 22' was a mirage that Dabol was able to coax out of Jones which the league figured out quickly because Jones was not able to improve moving along. If you don't improve you go backwards, viola! Then there was the huge Cap mess to get out from under, and a restructure of the scouting staff, which included buying a PC or two instead of Gettleman using fingers and toes to count. Schoen had a very good 24' draft with his people in place. Let's see what happens with 25' and the premium position. Remember it took an intervention by the league to start the first turnaround. The Maras have bad football IQ DNA, coupled with being hands on(Jones' contract) leads to performance disaster. Rocky Thompson tra la la. Give them another shot. Good news there is only one way to go. This mess started a long long time ago. They are 427-495-6 since 1965.

[MightyGiants]

George Young wanted to fire Parcells after 83'went they went 3-12-1, but Howard Schnellenberger didn't want the job. How did that turn out? True that was Parcells first year, and they made the playoffs in 84', but the elements were in place(LT etc). Schoen/Dabol inherited a catastrophic mess from Gettleman which very much resembled the Giants of the first Dark Age. Those who fanned during that time, how much of a difference was there between Robustelli and Gettleman from the perspective of being part of the Giant family? History repeats because a Mara just doesn't change tactics, or goes and just sits in the box counting the $5 billion they have increased in value the past ten years. It took Young/Perkins/Parcells really five years(79' to 84') to make them a bonafide contender, and that's with a more talented base roster to start with. 22' was a mirage that Dabol was able to coax out of Jones which the league figured out quickly because Jones was not able to improve moving along. If you don't improve you go backwards, viola! Then there was the huge Cap mess to get out from under, and a restructure of the scouting staff, which included buying a PC or two instead of Gettleman using fingers and toes to count. Schoen had a very good 24' draft with his people in place. Let's see what happens with 25' and the premium position. Remember it took an intervention by the league to start the first turnaround. The Maras have bad football IQ DNA, coupled with being hands on(Jones' contract) leads to performance disaster. Rocky Thompson tra la la. Give them another shot. Good news there is only one way to go. This mess started a long long time ago. They are 427-495-6 since 1965.

Yeah, I have heard NYG's, "but George Young and Bill Parcells started off slow" talking points.

There are a few points:

1) the "they started slow" talking point was used to defend big-time draft bust Evan Neal.  Citing outliers is not the way to predict the most likely outcome.

2) The roster wasn't that barren when Schoen and Daboll took over.  It's why they were able to make the playoffs with players like

1) Barkley
2) McKinney
3) Andrew Thomas
4) Dex
5) Bradberry (released by Schoen)
6) Slayton
7) Blake Martinez
8) Jabrill Peppers (allowed to walk in free agency)
9) Julian Love
10) Adoree Jackson

3)  Young drafted his franchise QB Phil Simms in year one.  He started 6-10, went 4-12 years 2, and 9–7 and the playoffs year 3 (having drafted Lawerence Taylor.  Schoen's NYG career hasn't been comparable.

4)  Parcells struggled during his rookie season but quickly turned things around after a rough start (where lessons were learned).  Daboll started out strong but has gotten worse with each progressive season.

5) While the 2024 season may prove to be outstanding, it's a bit early to declare it as such.

6) Modernizing the draft room was hardly a move of brilliance by Joe Schoen and doesn't seem to have paid great dividends.

[LennG]

The difference is Parcels had a legit QB in place to begin the turnaround, and Daboll was stuck with Dave Brown version II. Even Big Tuna wouldn't have been able to work miracles with the QB that Daboll inherited.

Parcels had GY, who was a legit GM, and Daboll has Schoen who inherited the biggest mess any GM ever had. He made decisions, some right, some wrong, but very few brand-new GMs hit the road flying. They have to learn along the way, ride the bumps, and learn. While I am not thrilled with either Daboll or Schoen, I do see Schoen getting better at his craft. He deserves a chance to either pick his own HC or select his own QB. GY did that.