QB decisions made by Schoen and Daboll

[MightyGiants]

there is a common narrative that we must let Schoen and Daboll, "draft their QB"

When you consider the decisions made by Schoen and Daboll:

1)  Not extending DJ his 5th-year option- The move made sense at the time, but in hindsight, it was a costly decision.   Having DJ on another year of trial would have prevented the big contract, which proved a costly mistake.

2) Sign Tyrod as their backup QB-  A high-end backup, but a bit too fragile

3) Sign DJ to a big ticket contract-  They signed DJ to a big ticket contract.  While some will point to the two years out, this has proven a costly mistake

4) Continue to start DeVito over a healthy Tyrod Taylor-  That move sealed the deal in terms of not being able to retain Tyrod this year.

4) Have Russel Wilson in for a visit and let him leave without a contract-  Considering how poor the roster is, signing a 36 year old QB can be forgiven

5) Signing Drew Lock to be the backup for an injured Daniel Jones-  Considering that DJ was coming off an ACL injury and there was the injury guarantee, this was who the team decided would be the high-end backup QB to cover the team

6)  When they benched/released DJ, they started DeVito over Drew Lock only to find DeVito was not as good as Lock and have to reverse course and start Lock over a healthy DeVito.

7)  Passing on Nix, Pennix, and JJ in the 2024 draft-  Nix is showing promise as a franchise QB.   Pennix didn't look bad in his first start, JJ is still a mystery.  It's possible all three will prove better than the top prospects in this year's draft.

Now Schoen was the assistant GM, and Daboll was the OC when the Bills drafted Allen.   So they were assistants when the Bills hit on their franchise QB.   Does that prove that these two men have what it takes to evaluate, draft, and develop a QB (it should be noted that it took Daboll 3 seasons to get Allen to play very well and had help from Allen's personal QB coach)?

[uconnjack8]

We have a thread celebrating that the team is now in the driver seat for the #1 pick.  I understand it and even contributed on that thread. 

I do have a hard time saying anything positive about the men who spent 3 years bringing the Giants to the bottom of the NFL. 

[T200]

There's so much to respond to but frankly, I no longer have the energy to keep responding to all the doom and gloom. I just want to get these last two losses and see what Mara and Schoen decide to do and go from there.

[babywhales]

I would only add not franchising Jones to the list. 



That being said the devil is in the details:

behind closed doors who pushed for what and how hard regarding:

1- the type of back up for jones? 
2- To or not to franchise Jones?
3- Sign Jones and major contract details?

[Philosophers]

there is a common narrative that we must let Schoen and Daboll, "draft their QB"

When you consider the decisions made by Schoen and Daboll:

1)  Not extending DJ his 5th-year option- The move made sense at the time, but in hindsight, it was a costly decision.   Having DJ on another year of trial would have prevented the big contract, which proved a costly mistake.

2) Sign Tyrod as their backup QB-  A high-end backup, but a bit too fragile

3) Sign DJ to a big ticket contract-  They signed DJ to a big ticket contract.  While some will point to the two years out, this has proven a costly mistake

4) Continue to start DeVito over a healthy Tyrod Taylor-  That move sealed the deal in terms of not being able to retain Tyrod this year.

4) Have Russel Wilson in for a visit and let him leave without a contract-  Considering how poor the roster is, signing a 36 year old QB can be forgiven

5) Signing Drew Lock to be the backup for an injured Daniel Jones-  Considering that DJ was coming off an ACL injury and there was the injury guarantee, this was who the team decided would be the high-end backup QB to cover the team

6)  When they benched/released DJ, they started DeVito over Drew Lock only to find DeVito was not as good as Lock and have to reverse course and start Lock over a healthy DeVito.

Now Schoen was the assistant GM, and Daboll was the OC when the Bills drafted Allen.   So they were assistants when the Bills hit on their franchise QB.   Does that prove that these two men have what it takes to evaluate, draft, and develop a QB (it should be noted that it took Daboll 3 seasons to get Allen to play very well and had help from Allen's personal QB coach)?

Brilliant summary Rich.  I conclude to your post as no way they should be allowed to make any more decisions as regard to this team.  No personnel decisions, no financial decisions.  It's why they need to be jettisoned.  Both are horrible and frankly, both got too much credit for Bills success when neither likely earned or deserved it.

[Gmo11]

there is a common narrative that we must let Schoen and Daboll, "draft their QB"

When you consider the decisions made by Schoen and Daboll:

1)  Not extending DJ his 5th-year option- The move made sense at the time, but in hindsight, it was a costly decision.  Having DJ on another year of trial would have prevented the big contract, which proved a costly mistake.

2) Sign Tyrod as their backup QB-  A high-end backup, but a bit too fragile

3) Sign DJ to a big ticket contract-  They signed DJ to a big ticket contract.  While some will point to the two years out, this has proven a costly mistake

4) Continue to start DeVito over a healthy Tyrod Taylor-  That move sealed the deal in terms of not being able to retain Tyrod this year.

4) Have Russel Wilson in for a visit and let him leave without a contract-  Considering how poor the roster is, signing a 36 year old QB can be forgiven

5) Signing Drew Lock to be the backup for an injured Daniel Jones-  Considering that DJ was coming off an ACL injury and there was the injury guarantee, this was who the team decided would be the high-end backup QB to cover the team

6)  When they benched/released DJ, they started DeVito over Drew Lock only to find DeVito was not as good as Lock and have to reverse course and start Lock over a healthy DeVito.

Now Schoen was the assistant GM, and Daboll was the OC when the Bills drafted Allen.  So they were assistants when the Bills hit on their franchise QB.  Does that prove that these two men have what it takes to evaluate, draft, and develop a QB (it should be noted that it took Daboll 3 seasons to get Allen to play very well and had help from Allen's personal QB coach)?

Almost all of these moves make sense when you look at the big picture and the reasons why they were likely done.  They didn't like Jones.  They wanted to move on after year 4 so no need for the 5th year.  Then 2022 happens.  Mara falls back in love.  They also have a hard time justifying to an extremely fickle fan base (clearly) that even though they made the playoffs and won a game when they got there, they have to move on from Jones as was the original plan because what you saw with your own eyes was more lucky than good.  Not doing exactly that was a mistake but one that I can understand. 

Yea Taylor is fragile, but so are basically all QBs these days, Lock and Devito have both been hurt this season.  Tyrod is a solid backup and most people would prefer him to Lock although that creates a potential mutiny when we've just seen in 2023 that he's better than Jones.  Which means they need to bring in a backup that won't be better, here comes Drew Lock to the rescue.  They start Devito over Lock because both of them stink but only one of them has the chance to be on the roster next season and it's not Lock. 

Russell Wilson would have made this team considerably better but are they going to be so much better that they're challenging the Eagles for the division? Going on a deep playoff run?  If not, then what sense does bringing in a 36 year old QB make?  He's not going to be getting better next year and the year after, only worse. But he's going to be good enough where you can't draft a long term answer.

Look this season was horrible.  Any way you slice it.  It was miserable to watch and they looked pathetic basically the entire season.  But one thing to keep in mind is this:  This is what they intended 2022 to look like.  They cut all the veterans, didn't extend Jones his 5th year, they wanted 2022 to look like this so that 2023 and 2024 they could be competing.  Instead they won a bunch of close games forcing them to keep Jones and set the team back 3 years.  In order to get a franchise QB you need a season like this first.  Now they have to do their due diligence and pick the right QB in this draft.  They loved both Daniels and Maye and were willing to trade up for either one last year.  They were correct in their evaluations of both of those guys.  If they decide that Sanders or Ward is a guy that can turn this ship around I'll trust them to do that. 

The purpose of this season was to establish beyond all reasonable doubt that Jones HAD to go.  Mission accomplished.  The worst thing that could happen after that is they win too many games to draft a really good QB.  Lock and Devito have done the job they were here to do.  Unlike last year when Devito went on that idiotic 3 game winning that kept Jayden Daniels away from the Giants and dropped him into Washington's lap.  (did you see what HE did yesterday by the way?)

[MightyGiants]

Yea Taylor is fragile, but so are basically all QBs these days, Lock and Devito have both been hurt this season.

Playing QB for NYG should come with hazard pay 
 

[MightyGiants]

I forgot and will be adding another decision

7)  Passing on Nix, Pennix, and JJ in the 2024 draft-  Nix is showing promise as a franchise QB.   Pennix didn't look bad in his first start, JJ is still a mystery.  It's possible all three will prove better than the top prospects in this year's draft.

[MightyGiants]

The purpose of this season was to establish beyond all reasonable doubt that Jones HAD to go. 

If that was Schoen's and Daboll's intentions they should be fired immediately.  Imagine screwing over fans for a whole season to prove something any competent GM or HC should simply know.

[T200]

If that was Schoen's and Daboll's intentions they should be fired immediately.  Imagine screwing over fans for a whole season to prove something any competent GM or HC should simply know.

Collateral damage. The incoming GM and HC *did* know... it was Mara who needed to be shown the truth about Jones.

[MrGap92]

This is essentially a rehash of the same narratives all summarized together.

Nice to have it condensed, but we have all repeated ourselves enough at this point that there is nothing new, or very little new, to contribute.

Some want them gone, some want one or the other gone, some want both retain all with differing opinions on the QB situation, we will see what happens soon enough.

I do not have the energy to repeat the same stuff any longer, but I respect those that have the will to keep going on.

[T200]

Look this season was horrible.  Any way you slice it.  It was miserable to watch and they looked pathetic basically the entire season.  But one thing to keep in mind is this:  This is what they intended 2022 to look like.  They cut all the veterans, didn't extend Jones his 5th year, they wanted 2022 to look like this so that 2023 and 2024 they could be competing.  Instead they won a bunch of close games forcing them to keep Jones and set the team back 3 years.  In order to get a franchise QB you need a season like this first.  Now they have to do their due diligence and pick the right QB in this draft.  They loved both Daniels and Maye and were willing to trade up for either one last year.  They were correct in their evaluations of both of those guys.  If they decide that Sanders or Ward is a guy that can turn this ship around I'll trust them to do that. 

The purpose of this season was to establish beyond all reasonable doubt that Jones HAD to go.  Mission accomplished.  The worst thing that could happen after that is they win too many games to draft a really good QB. Lock and Devito have done the job they were here to do.  Unlike last year when Devito went on that idiotic 3 game winning that kept Jayden Daniels away from the Giants and dropped him into Washington's lap.  (did you see what HE did yesterday by the way?)

That's my stance as well.

[babywhales]

If that was Schoen's and Daboll's intentions they should be fired immediately.  Imagine screwing over fans for a whole season to prove something any competent GM or HC should simply know.

Maybe the HC and GM weren't the ones needing the convincing?

[MightyGiants]

Collateral damage. The incoming GM and HC *did* know... it was Mara who needed to be shown the truth about Jones.

That is a claim not supported by actual fact.  In fact, we saw on tape that prior to this season, Mara had literally given Schoen his blessing to move on from Jones. 

[MightyGiants]

Maybe the HC and GM weren't the ones needing the convincing?

So we should ignore Mara giving Schoen his blessing to move on from Jones????