News:

Moderation Team: Vette, babywhales, Bob In PA, gregf, bighitterdalama, beaugestus, T200

Owner: MightyGiants

Link To Live Chat

Mastodon

Main Menu

Seems I'm not the only one thinking JJ McCarthy

Started by LennG, January 01, 2025, 08:46:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

katkavage

Quote from: T200 on January 02, 2025, 10:17:58 AMThat's an acceptable point of view. Saying "The Giants don't take risks" implies, to me, that Mara and his family makes the picks or has a very strong voice. And that will continue to be the issue, not the GM or coach.
I'd agree with you in principal on that, but after watching Hard Knocks, I did not see a disappointed Schoen when he got to pick Nabers and not McCarthy. I didn't see any meddling in regards to that pick.

killarich

Quote from: T200 on January 02, 2025, 09:45:45 AMI'm not opposed to them picking any player they have confidence in, regardless of position and round.

My point is that they didn't like JJ. Absolutely nothing has changed between the draft and now to make them reconsider their initial thoughts on him.

I think you are reading too much into that, I think they didn't like JJ that high (What did we have the 6th ?) over the likes of Nabers... Harrison etc


If JJ was still there in the second round Ill bet my first born they would have drafted him

So I think its less about "not liking him" vs where they would have to have drafted him

T200

Quote from: katkavage on January 02, 2025, 10:41:21 AMI'd agree with you in principal on that, but after watching Hard Knocks, I did not see a disappointed Schoen when he got to pick Nabers and not McCarthy. I didn't see any meddling in regards to that pick.
Who would be disappointed in picking Nabers? He was probably their #1 graded receiver.

I imagine a trade up for Maye or Daniels was 1A and a receiver was 1B.

Drafting a receiver instead of a QB to replace Jones falls into what Mara ultimately wanted: to keep Jones. So there was no need for him or his influential family members to sway the pick.
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

katkavage

Quote from: T200 on January 02, 2025, 10:53:32 AMWho would be disappointed in picking Nabers? He was probably their #1 graded receiver.

I imagine a trade up for Maye or Daniels was 1A and a receiver was 1B.

Drafting a receiver instead of a QB to replace Jones falls into what Mara ultimately wanted: to keep Jones. So there was no need for him or his influential family members to sway the pick.
I'm not disputing your theory. But it is just a theory. You have no proof of it.

T200

Quote from: killarich on January 02, 2025, 10:52:46 AMI think you are reading too much into that, I think they didn't like JJ that high (What did we have the 6th ?) over the likes of Nabers... Harrison etc


If JJ was still there in the second round Ill bet my first born they would have drafted him

So I think its less about "not liking him" vs where they would have to have drafted him
I don't think I'm reading too much into it. If anything, not enough. I think my point is pretty simple. He's the same player, even less so coming off an injury.

I do get your point that he'd be less of a costly risk at a 2nd round price vs a 1st.
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

T200

Quote from: katkavage on January 02, 2025, 10:54:38 AMI'm not disputing your theory. But it is just a theory. You have no proof of it.
Of course! We're all just speculating and putting puzzle pieces together.  :ok:
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

kartanoman

#21
Quote from: katkavage on January 02, 2025, 10:13:36 AMBecause Nabers was the safer pick. The Giants don't take risks. Ever. And Schoen just goes to the big board and grabs the highest ranked player.

That is a fair conclusion. You could also conclude that with Marvin Harrison Jr. off the board at #4, the wide receivers left were the big debate most of us, as well as many draftniks, predicted the Giants were going with anyway.

While Harrison Jr. and Odunze have had very good rookie seasons, the Giants, despite their offensive handicaps, hit it out of the park by selecting Nabers. Leave Mara out of it, apart from the final rubber stamp, and Schoen, his scouts and Daboll ended up with getting, or possibly exceeding, the value they've received from Nabers as a result of picking him at #6.

We've talked QB acquisition strategy going into the 2024 draft and it is water under the bridge now. The only scenario I see where the Giants push Minnesota to acquire McCarthy is if he was on their overall list of players they would like to have, but didn't grade out as high as Nabers did at #6. Also, if they are interested in acquiring him now, and the price tag is something they are willing to pay, despite the impact it might have on current and future draft capital, then they'll make the move.

You have to think on terms of your overall talent, where to improve to systematically improve the greatest, and how to do so while managing the salary cap AND keep your players happy with their contracts. In essence, a delicate balancing act that we dissect every day, ad nauseum, which is far easier said than actually put into practice.

So, now that WR1 is in good shape, WR2 becomes a question with Slayton.

Yes, QB is a primary concern but so, too, is the offensive line which has been discussed but injuries continue to decimate this squad. A combination of fresh blood, and improved training regiments, might help the cause, but what to do when your best player is now injury prone and owns one of the biggest salary cap impacting contracts on the team? Lots to contemplate there!

That doesn't consider the defense either.

I'll stop before I take this even further outside the scope of the subject of this thread.

Bottom line: Nabers was the pick in 2024 without question and we all know why. As to whether or not the Giants may be interested in taking a flyer out on McCarthy, provided Minnesota would shop him around, they'd be crazy not to. But to suggest they passed him up in the draft means they weren't interested in him may not be an accurate assumption. Instead, he could very well have been a QB they liked; however, he didn't grade out high enough to warrant selection at #6, that's all.

Now, time will tell whether this scenario even plays out by Minnesota.

Peace!


"Dave Jennings was one of the all-time great Giants. He was a valued member of the Giants family for more than 30 years as a player and a broadcaster, and we were thrilled to include him in our Ring of Honor. We will miss him dearly." (John Mara)

LennG


You also have to understand the situation last year. We knew we weren't getting the top 3 guys. that's a fact. We also knew Jones was our day 1 starter.  We also know that many, many people still thought Jones was 'the guy' and all he needed was a true #1 WR. So when it came to our turn to draft and the choice was JJ or Nabors, we went with the Wr to help Jones. We also don't know if Mara was anything behind the scenes telling them to try and help Jones as much as possible.

Let's say JJ didn't come out last year and was in this year's draft. Does anyone think the Giants would be climbing poles to get him? I don't know why people are so down on him. Forget the knees, it was minor surgury and only for minuscus, which we all get at one time or another. He is healthy and a true top-10 draft pick and much better than anyone else out there now.
Sorry, I would offer our #1 for him and throw in a #5 for next year also. He is the perfect option, rookie contract, one year sitting to learn, and can throw. I would make that trade in a heartbeat.
People here are scratching their heads as to who will our QB be. From taking flyers on guys in lower rounds when there is a legit QB in Minn and I'll be they will listen.
To me, just a perfect scenario.
I HATE TO INCLUDE THE WORD NASTY< BUT THAT IS PART OF BEING A WINNING FOOTBALL TEAM.

Charlie Weiss

T200

Quote from: LennG on January 02, 2025, 12:03:25 PMYou also have to understand the situation last year. We knew we weren't getting the top 3 guys. that's a fact. We also knew Jones was our day 1 starter.  We also know that many, many people still thought Jones was 'the guy' and all he needed was a true #1 WR. So when it came to our turn to draft and the choice was JJ or Nabors, we went with the Wr to help Jones. We also don't know if Mara was anything behind the scenes telling them to try and help Jones as much as possible.

Let's say JJ didn't come out last year and was in this year's draft. Does anyone think the Giants would be climbing poles to get him? I don't know why people are so down on him. Forget the knees, it was minor surgury and only for minuscus, which we all get at one time or another. He is healthy and a true top-10 draft pick and much better than anyone else out there now.
Sorry, I would offer our #1 for him and throw in a #5 for next year also. He is the perfect option, rookie contract, one year sitting to learn, and can throw. I would make that trade in a heartbeat.
People here are scratching their heads as to who will our QB be. From taking flyers on guys in lower rounds when there is a legit QB in Minn and I'll be they will listen.
To me, just a perfect scenario.
Good points, Lenny.

I'm still in the Sanders/Ward camp, but leaning more towards Ward.
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

MightyGiants

I would love to get JJ McCarthy, but I just find it unlikely that the Vikings will move on from him unless they get considerably more than they "paid" for him.   

If I were the Vikings' GM, I would tag Sam Darnold and keep riding with him. If this season proves to be a fluke, they can fall back on JJ. If Sam has another great year, they can ride with him and then trade away JJ if they want more draft capital.   

What I wouldn't do as Vikings GM is part ways with Sam Darnold (since you don't know if JJ can be as good) or with JJ this offseason because you don't know if Darnold can repeat.
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE

Philosophers

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 02, 2025, 12:32:05 PMI would love to get JJ McCarthy, but I just find it unlikely that the Vikings will move on from him unless they get considerably more than they "paid" for him.   

If I were the Vikings' GM, I would tag Sam Darnold and keep riding with him. If this season proves to be a fluke, they can fall back on JJ. If Sam has another great year, they can ride with him and then trade away JJ if they want more draft capital.   

What I wouldn't do as Vikings GM is part ways with Sam Darnold (since you don't know if JJ can be as good) or with JJ this offseason because you don't know if Darnold can repeat.

Tag Darnold.

DaveBrown74

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 02, 2025, 12:32:05 PMI would love to get JJ McCarthy, but I just find it unlikely that the Vikings will move on from him unless they get considerably more than they "paid" for him.   

If I were the Vikings' GM, I would tag Sam Darnold and keep riding with him. If this season proves to be a fluke, they can fall back on JJ. If Sam has another great year, they can ride with him and then trade away JJ if they want more draft capital.   

What I wouldn't do as Vikings GM is part ways with Sam Darnold (since you don't know if JJ can be as good) or with JJ this offseason because you don't know if Darnold can repeat.

I couldn't agree more with this. This is, in my opinion, exactly what Minnesota should (and probably will) do.


LennG

Maybe, but next year's draft class is supposed to have a lot more options and maybe they won't get a high  #1 for JJ as they surely would now.
I HATE TO INCLUDE THE WORD NASTY< BUT THAT IS PART OF BEING A WINNING FOOTBALL TEAM.

Charlie Weiss

kartanoman

Would you take McCarthy for a "Tarkenton-like" deal? Query everyone's thoughts on that.

Peace!


"Dave Jennings was one of the all-time great Giants. He was a valued member of the Giants family for more than 30 years as a player and a broadcaster, and we were thrilled to include him in our Ring of Honor. We will miss him dearly." (John Mara)

LennG


Sorry s but try of this 'older' man has faded a bit on what that trade was?
I HATE TO INCLUDE THE WORD NASTY< BUT THAT IS PART OF BEING A WINNING FOOTBALL TEAM.

Charlie Weiss