Seems I'm not the only one thinking JJ McCarthy

[madbadger]

Maybe, but next year's draft class is supposed to have a lot more options and maybe they won't get a high  #1 for JJ as they surely would now.

We passed on McCarthy and his name wasn't brought up during Hard Knocks. I don't think they like him as much as the fans do. If they trade a top 7 pick for him they'd lose me as a fan. If they can't get the guy they want then I hope they drop down and accumulate picks for next year. It's not like Lock is a bum. He's not as good as he looked this week but he's as good as some of the other options and cheaper too.

[DaveBrown74]

We passed on McCarthy and his name wasn't brought up during Hard Knocks. I don't think they like him as much as the fans do. If they trade a top 7 pick for him they'd lose me as a fan. If they can't get the guy they want then I hope they drop down and accumulate picks for next year. It's not like Lock is a bum. He's not as good as he looked this week but he's as good as some of the other options and cheaper too.

No way they'd trade a top 7 pick for him having done the analysis last year and having passed on exactly that. There is now a year gone in his four year rookie deal, which is a very substantial valuation difference, and on top of that he's coming off a major injury. I see literally zero chance of them giving up their first rounder for McCarthy.

Could they give up their second round pick for him if that offer were available? Yes, maybe. That's a totally different proposition. I doubt that would be possible though. Someone will offer more if he's even available, which seems far from a given to me.

[DaveBrown74]

https://x.com/jasrifootball/status/1875333267290787847

[Jclayton92]

In everyone's opinion, what makes Mccarthy a better prospect than Dart? Mccarthy ran a run first offense in college and while it doesn't seem that way so did Dart, yet the production is so different?

Best year

Mccarthy 3,000 yards 22 Tds 200 rushing 3 tds

Dart 4,300 yards 29 tds 500 rushing 3 tds

Dart sat out a lot of the first games otherwise he'd likely have thrown for 5,000 yards which is absurd. Couple that with Dart actually playing 4 years of college while Mccarthy only played 2. In his best year Mccarthy had the best line in college, and one of the best Rbs. Dart was missing his top 3 wrs, top 2 Rbs, #1 TE, and 2/3rds of his oline and still put up that crazy production. Dart is taller, heavier, more mobile, and double the passing volume with a similar passer rating.

Why would we give up multiple picks to get a guy off injury when we can get the better passing version of him in the draft?

[Philosophers]

In everyone's opinion, what makes Mccarthy a better prospect than Dart? Mccarthy ran a run first offense in college and while it doesn't seem that way so did Dart, yet the production is so different?

Best year

Mccarthy 3,000 yards 22 Tds 200 rushing 3 tds

Dart 4,300 yards 29 tds 500 rushing 3 tds

Dart sat out a lot of the first games otherwise he'd likely have thrown for 5,000 yards which is absurd. Couple that with Dart actually playing 4 years of college while Mccarthy only played 2. In his best year Mccarthy had the best line in college, and one of the best Rbs. Dart was missing his top 3 wrs, top 2 Rbs, #1 TE, and 2/3rds of his oline and still put up that crazy production. Dart is taller, heavier, more mobile, and double the passing volume with a similar passer rating.

Why would we give up multiple picks to get a guy off injury when we can get the better passing version of him in the draft?

Jess - it's not just about stats.  If that were the case Ron Dayne would have had a Hall of Fame NFL career instead of being a flabby 240 pounder who routinely got knocked off his feet by 180 pound CBs.

[DaveBrown74]

Jess - it's not just about stats.  If that were the case Ron Dayne would hVe gad a Hall of Fame NFL career instead of being a flabby 240 pounder who routinely got knocked off his feet by 180 pound CBs.

Agreed. Context matters. Harbaugh ran a totally different offense last year than what Kiffin runs.

Maybe Dart will be good and maybe McCarthy will be a bust. Nobody here can say with certainty that either of those statements will not be true. Or maybe the opposite will happen. But I definitely don't think you can just look at stats with college players and make declarative statements about who will be the better pro. If you could, we wouldn't have all these first round busts that we do.

[Jclayton92]

Jess - it's not just about stats.  If that were the case Ron Dayne would have had a Hall of Fame NFL career instead of being a flabby 240 pounder who routinely got knocked off his feet by 180 pound CBs.

No I completely agree with you, which is why I start the post by asking in your own opinion what makes Mccarthy a better prospect than Dart? So much so that people would rather us trade for him even though we passed over him, than draft a Qb.

[DaveBrown74]

No I completely agree with you, which is why I start the post by asking in your own opinion what makes Mccarthy a better prospect than Dart? So much so that people would rather us trade for him even though we passed over him, than draft a Qb.

Nobody here knows Ole Miss football and Ole Miss players even 1/10th of what you do Jess, so I'll always defer to you on this subject, but from what I have seen (and admittedly I only watched a couple Ole Miss games this year so right up front I admit my sample is small), Dart seemed quick to bail out of the pocket and not always go through all his progressions. Just didn't always seem to be that poised under pressure.

McCarthy seemed more sound to me although McCarthy was asked to do way, way less than Dart in his offense. It's hard to compare the two.

I frankly also don't know how well the Kiffin style translates to the pros. I remember hearing a lot of big predictions about how good a pro Matt Corral was going to be and a few years later the guy isn't even capable of being an NFL backup.

[Philosophers]

Teams look for traits as the NFL is simply harder to play in.  A QB can be a one read with a great WR and complete many passes to him and accumulate stats.  Will Howard is hardly a great QB but Jeremiah Smith makes him look fantastic.

NFL windows are tight.  JJ never had OSU's WRs (Roman Wilson was good especially on long sideline routes) so JJ made more throws in tighter windows probably than Dart plus Harbaugh ran a multiple read passing offense so he had to see the whole field.  More traits.

He may be a flat out bust or just average or very good.  Time will tell.

[files58]

The Giants should draft Will Howard. He has been throwing to Nabors like receivers this year, and has done well in two separate systems while in college. Very Nix like.

[Jclayton92]

Nobody here knows Ole Miss football and Ole Miss players even 1/10th of what you do Jess, so I'll always defer to you on this subject, but from what I have seen (and admittedly I only watched a couple Ole Miss games this year so right up front I admit my sample is small), Dart seemed quick to bail out of the pocket and not always go through all his progressions. Just didn't always seem to be that poised under pressure.

McCarthy seemed more sound to me although McCarthy was asked to do way, way less than Dart in his offense. It's hard to compare the two.

I frankly also don't know how well the Kiffin style translates to the pros. I remember hearing a lot of big predictions about how good a pro Matt Corral was going to be and a few years later the guy isn't even capable of being an NFL backup.

All very sound points. One thing I would say is that as more teams in the NFL go to this new Cover 2 future offenses will adapt to running quick game passing attacks, RPOs, and the occasional deep shot. From all the tape I've seen, Dart is the best quick game qb in this draft and possibly the last. He does have a nice share of flaws aa well though.

[todge]

The Giants should draft Will Howard. He has been throwing to Nabors like receivers this year, and has done well in two separate systems while in college. Very Nix like.

Why not? They'll be able to get him in the 3rd Round or perhaps lower. He draws comparisons to Mason Rudolph.


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[Philosophers]

JJ is not getting traded.  That rookie contract is too valuable for a HC who thinks he can mold QBs.

[TDToomer]

Why not? They'll be able to get him in the 3rd Round or perhaps lower. He draws comparisons to Mason Rudolph.


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So what. Rudolph is nothing close to a franchise QB which we need.

[LennG]

JJ is not getting traded.  That rookie contract is too valuable for a HC who thinks he can mold QBs.

The Vikings are going to have to sign Darnold to at least a 3 year deal or he will walk. I just can't see them letting him walk. Does that mean JJ will sit all that time. He has the most value right now not next year.