Schoen and Daboll will be back

[MightyGiants]

Drafting a quarterback in hopes of finding a "high-end backup" may be the worst use of resources that an NFL team can use. If you don't think a QB can be a solid starter in the NFL, you're wasting a pick.

We have seen people suggesting that the team acquire Joe Milton from the Pats, Hendon Hooker from the Lions, or Malik Willis: all, day 2 or 3 QB picks. 

The highest-paid backup QBs are currently earning $6 million per season.  So a team could save $5 million a season in cap space with a cheaper drafted backup QB, and if a team gets lucky and the pick works out, they could potentially trade him for a draft capital profit.

So while it may be more of a luxury pick than filling desperate need (although drafting for need is less than ideal), I wouldn't call it the "worse use of resources"

[EDjohnst1981]

We have seen people suggesting that the team acquire Joe Milton from the Pats, Hendon Hooker from the Lions, or Malik Willis: all, day 2 or 3 QB picks. 

The highest-paid backup QBs are currently earning $6 million per season.  So a team could save $5 million a season in cap space with a cheaper drafted backup QB, and if a team gets lucky and the pick works out, they could potentially trade him for a draft capital profit.

So while it may be more of a luxury pick than filling desperate need (although drafting for need is less than ideal), I wouldn't call it the "worse use of resources"

Once we plug the holes in starting players, they can start looking to draft a back-up QB.

[Doc16LT56]

We have seen people suggesting that the team acquire Joe Milton from the Pats, Hendon Hooker from the Lions, or Malik Willis: all, day 2 or 3 QB picks. 

The highest-paid backup QBs are currently earning $6 million per season.  So a team could save $5 million a season in cap space with a cheaper drafted backup QB, and if a team gets lucky and the pick works out, they could potentially trade him for a draft capital profit.

So while it may be more of a luxury pick than filling desperate need (although drafting for need is less than ideal), I wouldn't call it the "worse use of resources"

It's an issue of semantics in my opinion. What's the difference  between a high-end backup and a low-end starter? One is worth drafting but the other is not? At the end of the day, you want to invest in a QB who you can run a functional offense with. Whether that means paying someone like Tyrod $12 million or using a 4th round pick on a guy you like, you're going to have to pull the trigger. Otherwise, you end up with the 32nd ranked offense again.

[jgrangers2]

It's an issue of semantics in my opinion. What's the difference  between a high-end backup and a low-end starter? One is worth drafting but the other is not? At the end of the day, you want to invest in a QB who you can run a functional offense with. Whether that means paying someone like Tyrod $12 million or using a 4th round pick on a guy you like, you're going to have to pull the trigger. Otherwise, you end up with the 32nd ranked offense again.

I'd make the argument that neither is worth drafting unless your team is good enough that you can afford the luxury of drafting a guy that you, effectively, are hoping to never have to play. Basically, don't draft QBs unless you think you can win with them at the helm. Realistically, in my view, the backup QB is the most overrated position in sports. If you have to go to your backup and don't see a significant drop in performance, your starter probably sucks.

[Brooklyn Dave]

Dave,

I read the article, but like you, I found it badly flawed.   To me, citing the exception to prove a rule is illogical.  So Connor cites people wanting Coughlin fired in 2005 as proof that wanting someone fired is wrong while ignoring people wanting later years Reese, McAdoo, Shurmur, Gettleman, and Judge fired. 

Connor also ignores the reality that after 2022, DJ was a free agent.  Since Mara says Schoen and Daboll work well together, presumably, they were in agreement on signing him to a veteran QB contract.  So his DJ argument rings hollow.

Ultimately, a decision should be based on sounder principles, such as: Is the franchise moving in the right direction under Schoen and Daboll?  (Both Mara admitted that winning more games or becoming more talented did not happen.)   Perhaps the other equally important but unsaid criteria played a role: Are there better candidates available to replace them?  That may prove to be the saving grace for the pair (along with Mara's desire for continuity).

As usual you are spot on . I have no idea as to who would be a better GM or who is out there . The Commanders found one , didn't they ? When you go from 9 wins to 6 wins to 3 wins during your tenure as a HC and make blunders like knowing your kicker has a groin issue and you don't have an other kicker on your roster for a game ,is that  a reason to retain a Head coach ?

Mara is trying to be like the Steelers , always competitive , but he is just not that  competent.

[katkavage]

"Just how rare is this opportunity for Brian Daboll to get a fourth year after winning just 3 games in Year 3?

Happened only twice since 1980 — Bruce Coslet (3-13 in '99) and David Shula (3-13 in '95), both with Cincy. Both crashed out.

Giants and Daboll hoping this ends better."

Via Jordan Raanan on X.

Of course he will crash out. It's a no-brainer. The Giants are like the old Cincy now.

[GordonGekko80]

The short answer is NO simply be the hasn't taught them to tackle.

Secondly, the lack of aggressiveness has contributed to the lack of turnovers. Soft defenses don't win championships

Agree with all of the above.

I think we also need some more talent on D and obviously remain healthy (Dex getting injured didn't help).
The LB position needs to be upgraded, as do the DB and Safety positions.

[katkavage]

And then there is this:

The Giants are a franchise adrift, and John Mara has no clue how to get them back on course
EAST RUTHERFORD, NEW JERSEY - SEPTEMBER 10: New York Giants president and CEO John Mara looks on prior to an NFL football game against the Dallas Cowboys at MetLife Stadium on September 10, 2023 in East Rutherford, New Jersey. (Photo by Ryan Kang/Getty Images)
By Dan Duggan
Jan 6, 2025

329
Save Article

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. — John Mara is lost. That's the only conclusion to come to after listening to the New York Giants co-owner explain the decision to retain general manager Joe Schoen and coach Brian Daboll for a fourth season.

Tom Coughlin once had to convince ownership that he deserved a fourth season after consecutive playoff appearances. That was 18 years ago. It feels like a lifetime.

Mara and co-owner Steve Tisch pledged their support of Schoen and Daboll after they oversaw one of the worst seasons in the franchise's 100-year history. The Giants finished a miserable 3-14 season with a loss to the Eagles' backups on Sunday. That followed a 6-11 record in 2023, which prompted Mara to state this summer that, "I expect us to take a big step forward this year."

Instead, the Giants took another step backward. The product on the field is indefensible.

"We stunk this year," Mara said. "It's my instinct and my strong belief that we are going to go in the right direction. It's hard for me to say we're going in the right direction right now because we've been going backward."

Mara's explanation of his belief was full of contradictions.

He said he thinks they're going in the right direction while expressing that he's "just about run out of patience."

Mara said their process when making personnel decisions "is better than I've ever seen it before," yet he couldn't even express confidence that this regime has made the roster better than the one it inherited in 2022.

"I'm not sure I am all that confident that it's that much better," Mara said. "How can I say that it's better if we win three games? We need to win more games for us to be able to prove that point."

In one breath, Mara acknowledged that, "We have a lot of holes to fill," but then said, "It'd better not take too long" to improve the product.

Mara was adamant the Giants didn't tank late in the season — "If I had thought that we were tanking either one of those games, I would have fired everybody" — so that means he's "confident" in a group that got beat by the Eagles' backups in Sunday's finale.

It's enough to make your head spin.

Obviously, the decision to stick with Schoen and Daboll is at least partly rooted in ownership's desire to stop overhauling the front office and coaching staff every few years.

"When you make these changes — and God knows we've made them in the past and been impatient in the past — when you do that, you feel like you take one step forward, two steps back, and I just didn't want to fall into that cycle again," Mara said. "I wanted to give people a chance to build this thing the right way and to get us to where we need to be."

It's incredible that this is the duo Mara has decided warrants patience. Yes, Daboll was the NFL Coach of the Year for leading the Giants to the playoffs in 2022, but things are bleaker now than ever.

The Giants endured a franchise record 10-game losing streak and went winless in the NFC East for the first time ever this season. They're 1-12 against the Eagles and Cowboys under this regime. Even the worst seasons from Dave Gettleman, Joe Judge or Pat Shurmur weren't three-wins bad.

So, as Mara conducted his annual season-ending self-flagellation session — "Nobody's more frustrated and upset than I am," he said — he didn't provide any tangible reason to believe things will change. The Giants have the worst record in the NFL over the past eight seasons.

The Giants have tried firing everyone. That hasn't worked. So now they're trying to ride it out with Schoen and Daboll. There are obvious questions about this approach.

This regime will be feeling pressure to win in 2025 despite Schoen's vow not to do a "Hail Mary for self-preservation." Could Schoen's hot seat result in an ill-advised free-agent spending spree like Gettleman in 2021 or Jerry Reese in 2016? Or could the need to land a franchise quarterback lead to a forced pick like Daniel Jones in 2019?

Whatever plan Schoen and Daboll outlined to Mara last Friday to convince him to stick with them surely revolved around the quarterback position.

"Obviously, the quarterback is the big issue," Mara said. "I think once you solve the quarterback issue, I think a lot of these other things will improve as well."

Mara made it sound so simple that it almost makes you forget they've been trying to solve the quarterback issue for six years. This regime already botched it with the four-year, $160 million contract they gave Daniel Jones that didn't even survive two seasons. Schoen doubled down on that massive misstep Monday.

"I wouldn't change what we did," Schoen said. "When I reflect on how that went down with Daniel, again, it's the information you have."

The Giants also passed on quarterbacks with the No. 6 pick in last year's draft to take wide receiver Malik Nabers, who already looks like a star. The path to an equivalent quarterback is hazy.

The Giants have the third pick behind two quarterback-needy teams in a draft with two premier QB prospects. Mara's urgency to turn things around quickly makes signing or trading for a veteran quarterback a realistic possibility.

"That's obviously the number one issue for us going into this offseason, is to find our quarterback of the future," Mara said. "Whether that be via the draft or acquiring a veteran, it's going to be up to them to decide, ultimately."

The right quarterback will certainly go a long way to fixing the Giants' problems. But there are other issues that will be addressed this offseason.

Schoen and Daboll may have job security, but first-year defensive coordinator Shane Bowen is clearly in ownership's crosshairs.

"Quite frankly, I didn't think our defense played very well this year at all," Mara said. "I'm tired of watching teams go up and down the field on us. So, I think that has to be addressed."

Bowen was the Giants' fourth choice for DC last offseason after Wink Martindale's ugly fallout with Daboll. The position figures to be even less appealing this year. Candidates with other options surely will be wary about joining a head coach squarely on the hot seat.

The defense wasn't good, but it ranked 21st in points allowed. Meanwhile, Daboll engineered an offense that finished 31st in scoring. There could be changes there, too. Mara said he talked to Daboll about, "Do you really believe that it's in our best interest for you to continue calling the plays?'"

Daboll decided to strip play-calling duties from offensive coordinator Mike Kafka after the Giants finished 30th in scoring in 2023. A year later, Daboll may be forced to reverse course again. And it may not be as simple as handing the duties back to Kafka, who could have other options.

The Bears reportedly requested an interview with Kafka for their head-coaching vacancy, and he could be in demand as an offensive coordinator elsewhere. The Giants blocked Kafka from interviewing for the Seahawks' OC job last offseason, as they tried to manage optics after replacing their two other coordinators. It would be callous to again block Kafka if he wants to leave.

So, the Giants could have new play callers on both sides of the ball as Mara shared his aversion to starting over. That would fit in with the disjointed plan the Giants were trying to sell in the absence of any results.

"If I'm standing here a year from now, and we're having the same conversation, I'll take the heat for it," Mara said. "But we still believe that it's the right decision going forward."

Maybe this decision will turn out like Coughlin, who survived to see a fourth season and went on to win two Super Bowls. But on Monday, the Giants seemed further away from those glory days than ever.

[Messiah717]

The schedule next season is brutal.  There's nothing to indicate that anything will drastically get better.  While they hopefully win more than three games I don't see the improvement being that great.  This just delays the inevitable.

[AYM]

So inconsistent. Mara wants Daboll to give up play calling (which Daboll snatched from Kafka this season) and replace the DC we just replaced last year, and somehow find someone better who'd want to work for Daboll after Mara said "I've just about run out of patience".

Why are we keeping Daboll then?

[MightyGiants]

The schedule next season is brutal.  There's nothing to indicate that anything will drastically get better.  While they hopefully win more than three games I don't see the improvement being that great.  This just delays the inevitable.

If I didn't know any better, I would think this wasn't an accident.  It is not a good offseason to find a franchise quarterback.  So let Schoen and Daboll have one more year.  The team fails and has a high pick in next year's draft.  Then, the new GM and HC select their QB, which is ideal.

[katkavage]

So inconsistent. Mara wants Daboll to give up play calling (which Daboll snatched from Kafka this season) and replace the DC we just replaced last year, and somehow find someone better who'd want to work for Daboll after Mara said "I've just about run out of patience".

Why are we keeping Daboll then?

Because Mara is too lazy to do the work to hire someone.

[Doc16LT56]

Because Mara is too lazy to do the work to hire someone.

I think this has something to do with it. Not so much lazy as lost. He has no answers or idea how to right the ship. And he isn't willing to end the nepotism.

[GordonGekko80]

The schedule next season is brutal.  There's nothing to indicate that anything will drastically get better.  While they hopefully win more than three games I don't see the improvement being that great.  This just delays the inevitable.

But we were saying the same last year, weren't we?

[Brooklyn Dave]

I have asked this a few times but never goit an answer .

If you applaud Mara's decision to retain Schoen and Daboll can you please tell me the reasons you believe it was the right decision. Not that you agree with it but your reason for agreeing to it