Bob Papa and Carl Banks bring the heat in their season wrap up show

[Trench]

As I said, we live in a society where expertise, education, and experience are no longer valued.   Football is hardly the only field of endeavor where this is happening.  We have seen this in public health, medicine, science, and economics (to name a few more).

Your comments only support the point I was making.  I am curious: how much have you listened to Carl Banks to determine that you know more about football than he does?

Where the hell have I said I know more about football than he does?

Don't start attacking me bro

[MightyGiants]

Where the hell have I said I know more about football than he does?

Don't start attacking me bro

So how am I supposed to interpret your brag about how you were supposedly "right" about Daniel Jones and Banks was "wrong," and how can we trust him after that?

[Trench]

So how am I supposed to interpret your brag about how you were supposedly "right" about Daniel Jones and Banks was "wrong," and how can we trust him after that?

I wasn't trying to say "me" personally...I was illustrating the fact so many here felt he was not the guy is all and it was painfully obvious for all to see - Banks was on opposite end of spectrum until a week or two before it was officially "over"....

I don't think we know more than Banks but I will say "collectively" here at BBH there are so many smart football people yourself included of course who are decent evaluators (as proven by on field action)...I use last years QBs as an example - so many here explained in great detail about Nix, Pennix, Maye, Daniels...I wasn't one of them but I learned a lot by reading their posts.

[MightyGiants]

I wasn't trying to say "me" personally...I was illustrating the fact so many here felt he was not the guy is all and it was painfully obvious for all to see - Banks was on opposite end of spectrum until a week or two before it was officially "over"....

I don't think we know more than Banks but I will say "collectively" here at BBH there are so many smart football people yourself included of course who are decent evaluators (as proven by on field action)...I use last years QBs as an example - so many here explained in great detail about Nix, Pennix, Maye, Daniels...I wasn't one of them but I learned a lot by reading their posts.

First, thank you for the kind words, and I appreciate your knowledge of the game.

Here's the thing: no one in the NFL, especially if they are in the league long enough, is right 100% of the time.  The NFL is more like poker than chess; there is a significant amount of luck and chance involved.

I remember on this very forum that it was declared that Jake Fromm had the "it" factor.  I remember others saying that they saw something special in Trevor Lawerence.  I remember others insisting the Giants needed to acquire Hendron Hooker, who can't even keep the second-string QB job in Detroit (the team signed Teddy Bridgewater last month to be the backup).  I remember people being excited about Neal and Hernandez being drafted.  Same with Banks and JMS being drafted.    No one is perfect, no one.

So to use right or wrong (especially in isolation of an issue or two) is a poor measure of football expertise, in my opinion.  It's like saying someone who buys a lottery ticket and wins is an expert on buying winning lottery tickets.

If you actually listen to the podcast/video that was posted, you will hear Carl Banks make many excellent points, and the points he shares with Daboll about team building and being a head coach are points I have heard made by the likes of Bill Belichick and others who have worked at the highest levels in the league.  Carl Banks is a very intelligent man with a great deal of experience in the league.  He could have easily pursued coaching if he was willing to work those sorts of hours.   Carl also has the advantage of being in the building and talking to the coaches and players off the record.

[Trench]

First, thank you for the kind words, and I appreciate your knowledge of the game.

Here's the thing: no one in the NFL, especially if they are in the league long enough, is right 100% of the time.  The NFL is more like poker than chess; there is a significant amount of luck and chance involved.

I remember on this very forum that it was declared that Jake Fromm had the "it" factor.  I remember others saying that they saw something special in Trevor Lawerence.  I remember others insisting the Giants needed to acquire Hendron Hooker, who can't even keep the second-string QB job in Detroit (the team signed Teddy Bridgewater last month to be the backup).  I remember people being excited about Neal and Hernandez being drafted.  Same with Banks and JMS being drafted.    No one is perfect, no one.

So to use right or wrong (especially in isolation of an issue or two) is a poor measure of football expertise, in my opinion.  It's like saying someone who buys a lottery ticket and wins is an expert on buying winning lottery tickets.

If you actually listen to the podcast/video that was posted, you will hear Carl Banks make many excellent points, and the points he shares with Daboll about team building and being a head coach are points I have heard made by the likes of Bill Belichick and others who have worked at the highest levels in the league.  Carl Banks is a very intelligent man with a great deal of experience in the league.  He could have easily pursued coaching if he was willing to work those sorts of hours.   Carl also has the advantage of being in the building and talking to the coaches and players off the record.

I admit I was on the Fromm "it" factor parade...same as I was on the Jones doesn't have "the it" factor. Tough business this football evaluation stuff. Studying Parcells, he was always able to find the special players who had it - especially when he was allowed to pick them himself. I marvel at how he made the Akers, Cowboys etc so good so fast.

Jake Fromm!...I forgot how wrong I was on that guy - all because I was sold on his college tapes

[Giantleap56]

I'm one of those that was high on Jake Fromm from State Farm. Was I wrong on that.

Carl Banks makes great points, but there are times he is a soft on his questions. But he hit the nail on the head when he basically said Daboll lacks self awareness. And he needs to look at what he can do to improve.
My personal belief is that Daboll needs to let go of play calling hires Pederson as an OC. Actually I want Mara to hire his OC not Schoen or Daboll. Daboll can manage the game and over see player development.