Is there no Hope for the Giants??

[Dumpster Dan]

Believe me I understand 3-13.  I'm old enough to have lived through them before.

I know that we need a QB>  Who doesnt know that?  I have no clue how we are going to get not one but two.

I know that we are short on talent, especially depth.

But I have to ask.  Is it a lost cause?  Is there NO hope that we might get better?  Is there NO core of players, however small, to build around??  The beat writers and pundits and now the BBH is nothing but doom and gloom.

How long must we read about how bad we are?  I knew that 4 games into the season.

I understand the disappointment of some because JS and DB have been retained   but does that automatically put us in the dumpster again?  Are we going to read all year about the failures and shortcomings of our GM?  Now we are reading that players were unhappy>  Of course they were.  Nobody like to lose and be part of a losing team.  But am I supposed to believe that those same players will go into NEXT year with a losing attitude?  If yes, then why should I care?  Why would I add another year to rooting for a football team.  I have better things to do with my life.,. such as a new great grandson born yesterday.  Instead I went out and bought him his first Giant T-shirt.  What a fool I am.  Over the years I have introduced the grandkids to the BBH.  Yesterday I emailed all of them and apologized.  I told all of them that as they well know everyone is entitled to their opinions but the doom and gloomers are not necessarily the majority.   They will have to figure that out themselves.

To be very blunt and frank--I have never in all my life been able to figure out how anyone can have a favorite team to root for and hate the leadership of that team.  Oh I get  the notion of just "telling it like it is"   and guys like me have got to stop drinking the kool aid  and face facts.   

I get it--DJ sucked.  But do we have to rehash that almost every single day. He's gone.  No longer a Giant.  Cant I look forward to each new day with hope and anticipation that JS and DB  have learned from their mistakes?  Cant i Take some feeling of promise that the draft class of JS last year was one of the best in the NFL??  I am to conveniently forget and disregard that because we were 3-14  and JS screwed up the DJ, Barkley, LW, McKinney Lock, Devito situations he doesn't get another chance>

On a personal note I am grateful that my wife doesn't have that attitude toward me  else she would have kicked me to the curb 60 years ago

I get it als0.  I dont have to come on BH daily and read opinions that differ from mine and above all if I do read  take then for what they are   just opinions

Happy New Year everyone


Dumpster Dan

[kartanoman]

Dan,

NO, we don't!
YES, you can!
YES, you can!

You are MOST BLESSED to have someone who loves you so much to be committed to stand by your side for 60+ years; that is nearly four (4) years longer than the day I was born into this world!

I hope you DO NOT come here for groupthink or else this would be a boring place! The spirit of debate here is fun yet just about everyone here has an underlying respect for each other, at a minimum, and many have close, brotherhood-like friendships that will last a lifetime.

It doesn't get much better than that. You have said it yourself in that you've seen this franchise at its lowest point. You were one of many Giants' fans who held the votive candle in support of the faith they would, one day, turn it around, and they always did.

As for the "dynamic duo" surviving another year, it is the least of all evils, for now. If a year from now, they manage to get this thing turned around, there is no person I want to hear from more than yourself commenting about "hope." You'll be our spiritual leader preaching from the pulpit on the subject!

Hope will always be there despite the "mob mentality" coming from their mouths. Let's see what this off-season produces and we can revisit this topic.

Peace!

[MrGap92]

There is hope, if Schoens drafting more recently is a sign of whats to come, along with some cash to spend, they can acquire the talent needed.

They have moved on from Jones and can actually build now without the bottleneck.

We'll see where things go with the injured players, coaching staff etc, hope is not lost. A roster not much different still recently had a playoff berth and COTY.

Time will tell.

[Giant Obsession]

Don't worry Dan, history is on our side.

We have dug out of this quagmire before.

All we need is another George Young, Bill Parcells, Phil Simms and LT and we will be on our way again.

   

[MightyGiants]

I think the team is in a similar situation as when they gave up on Dave Brown

[LennG]

Believe me I understand 3-13.  I'm old enough to have lived through them before.

I know that we need a QB>  Who doesnt know that?  I have no clue how we are going to get not one but two.

I know that we are short on talent, especially depth.

But I have to ask.  Is it a lost cause?  Is there NO hope that we might get better?  Is there NO core of players, however small, to build around??  The beat writers and pundits and now the BBH is nothing but doom and gloom.

How long must we read about how bad we are?  I knew that 4 games into the season.

I understand the disappointment of some because JS and DB have been retained   but does that automatically put us in the dumpster again?  Are we going to read all year about the failures and shortcomings of our GM?  Now we are reading that players were unhappy>  Of course they were.  Nobody like to lose and be part of a losing team.  But am I supposed to believe that those same players will go into NEXT year with a losing attitude?  If yes, then why should I care?  Why would I add another year to rooting for a football team.  I have better things to do with my life.,. such as a new great grandson born yesterday.  Instead I went out and bought him his first Giant T-shirt.  What a fool I am.  Over the years I have introduced the grandkids to the BBH.  Yesterday I emailed all of them and apologized.  I told all of them that as they well know everyone is entitled to their opinions but the doom and gloomers are not necessarily the majority.   They will have to figure that out themselves.

To be very blunt and frank--I have never in all my life been able to figure out how anyone can have a favorite team to root for and hate the leadership of that team.  Oh I get  the notion of just "telling it like it is"   and guys like me have got to stop drinking the kool aid  and face facts.   

I get it--DJ sucked.  But do we have to rehash that almost every single day. He's gone.  No longer a Giant.  Cant I look forward to each new day with hope and anticipation that JS and DB  have learned from their mistakes?  Cant i Take some feeling of promise that the draft class of JS last year was one of the best in the NFL??  I am to conveniently forget and disregard that because we were 3-14  and JS screwed up the DJ, Barkley, LW, McKinney Lock, Devito situations he doesn't get another chance>

On a personal note I am grateful that my wife doesn't have that attitude toward me  else she would have kicked me to the curb 60 years ago

I get it als0.  I dont have to come on BH daily and read opinions that differ from mine and above all if I do read  take then for what they are   just opinions

Happy New Year everyone


Dumpster Dan

Glad to see you echo what many of us do believe. You are correct in that there is an agenda by some to just bash, bash, and then scour the internet to find people who support this agenda of bash. I can understand as the season wore on, we weren't happy with some of the decisions by our coaching staff, but now the season is over, and what do we have to look forward to, the same agenda of bash, bash, and more bash even though we were promised no more.
I know I am sick of it. We need to move on and have hope that this regime will right the ship, bring in a new QB and we cans tart to see that light at tunnel's end once again.

[MightyGiants]

We are in for some tough times ahead.  There is a small chance the team will get really lucky and turn things around quickly, but it looks more likely there will be more losing than winning in the near future

[DaveBrown74]

We are in for some tough times ahead.  There is a small chance the team will get really lucky and turn things around quickly, but it looks more likely there will be more losing than winning in the near future

True.

[Bob In PA]

I don't see the logic in assuming we'll be worse next year (or no better than this year).

A simple example of why that doesn't make sense is at QB (easily the most important on a pro team). For years, the fan base (in general) has berated Daniel Jones. Let's assume they were correct. It's logical to do that because the people who get paid money to answer that question just allowed him to leave.

If he was as bad as the consensus believed, then it should be EASY to find someone better.

I'd be more worried about improving at QB if we had lost a player widely considered to be GOOD.

Wouldn't you?

Bob

[MightyGiants]

I don't see the logic in assuming we'll be worse next year (or no better than this year).

A simple example of why that doesn't make sense is at QB (easily the most important on a pro team). For years, the fan base (in general) has berated Daniel Jones. Let's assume they were correct. It's logical to do that because the people who get paid money to answer that question just allowed him to leave.

If he was as bad as the consensus believed, then it should be EASY to find someone better.

I'd be more worried about improving at QB if we had lost a player widely considered to be GOOD.

Wouldn't you?

Bob

Bob,

To best understand the logic:

1)  First, the metric was wins, not "better."  The Giants face (by the only metric currently available, 2024 wins and losses).  There is considerable evidence that the strength of the schedule strongly impacts NFL team success (in terms of wins and losses).  A better team could still have as many losses next season.

2)  DJ clearly regressed in year 6, and it's reasonable to put him among the 5 worst starters in the league.  We have also heard over the past 6 years that even the middle of the pack isn't good enough for the team's starting QB.  So improving to the bottom ten or even middle of the pack isn't going to be considered acceptable for the QB position based on the standards set.  So you can get a better QB than DJ, and still not have "solved" the QB position.

3)  The Giants only won 3 games, so they is still a considerable margin for winning more games and still falling into he "lose more games than they win" standard you are referring to.

[Bob In PA]

the metric was wins, not "better." 

Rich: I was responding to the question in the title, and Dan re-posed it in his original post as re: "Is there hope for [the Giants] to get better? (paraphrasing)

As for the question of more wins, next year's schedule looks tough.

Will we win more than THREE?  Well, we almost did with this group. They actually had to get rid of Jones mid-season to AVOID winning more than three.

Bob

[uconnjack8]

I don't see the logic in assuming we'll be worse next year (or no better than this year).

A simple example of why that doesn't make sense is at QB (easily the most important on a pro team). For years, the fan base (in general) has berated Daniel Jones. Let's assume they were correct. It's logical to do that because the people who get paid money to answer that question just allowed him to leave.

If he was as bad as the consensus believed, then it should be EASY to find someone better.

I'd be more worried about improving at QB if we had lost a player widely considered to be GOOD.

Wouldn't you?

Bob

Bob,

Great point.  I think it's not just the QB that people have pointed to, but the exodus of talent as well. 

So to your point the QB should be an easy upgrade and on the other front, there isn't top flight talent to lose this offseason.

Personally I don't see potential for a big improvement in 1 year.  Beyond that I don't think anyone can predict. 

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

Great point.  I think it's not just the QB that people have pointed to, but the exodus of talent as well. 

So to your point the QB should be an easy upgrade and on the other front, there isn't top flight talent to lose this offseason.

Personally I don't see potential for a big improvement in 1 year.  Beyond that I don't think anyone can predict.

uconn: Yes. It's the old "reversion to the mean" principle (like stretching a rubber band). The HARD part for any NFL team is to rise from an 8-9 or 9-8 team to a legitimate contender. Bob

[MightyGiants]

Glad to see you echo what many of us do believe. You are correct in that there is an agenda by some to just bash, bash, and then scour the internet to find people who support this agenda of bash. I can understand as the season wore on, we weren't happy with some of the decisions by our coaching staff, but now the season is over, and what do we have to look forward to, the same agenda of bash, bash, and more bash even though we were promised no more.
I know I am sick of it. We need to move on and have hope that this regime will right the ship, bring in a new QB and we cans tart to see that light at tunnel's end once again.

This post reminds me of an observation from my 35 years of volunteer work on an emergency and rescue squad.  For any volunteer organization to function effectively, you need doers.   Doers are the people who put in the extra time and effort to do the work that is needed for a place to run.  Having sat through many monthly business meetings, as sure as there are doers, you are going to have complainers.  They are the ones not doing the work but are more than happy to sit in the back of the room and criticize and put down the doers who put themselves out there.

I picked up on this dynamic early in my volunteer career.  One thing I vowed was that I was going to be a doer.  I would be a positive contributor and not be one of the whiners in the back of the room hurling barbs at the doers, no matter how much easier and emotionally satisfying the latter is.

BBH promised to be the BEST INFORMED fans, not the fans who are selectively ignorant to boost optimism.  Information and stories are going to be brought to this forum and are not going to be censored like I am Pat Hanlon.

[Woody]

In my opinion  the Giants are in a position of weakness in their endeavor to improve, if it can be done at all in next few years .....now, I hope I am wrong. 

Sounds bad but thanks to Mr Mara and his decision to keep the GM and coach after two of the worst years in Giant history, along with his very non convincing presser basically saying both are on the clock to improve or else !

Where are the Giants today ? in the view of the rest of league ? With FA 's ? new coaches if any changes are made ? In the eyes of fans ...old and new ?
Who would want to be part of this mess ? with two lame duck people in charge?
Maybe, things will turn around ...but it will have to be done with the existing staff ....Good quality Fa"s ? (Not sure many will want to come and play for a lame duck coach ?) and another very good draft. Can it happen ? Maybe , but when the owner comes out with the press conference and comments about the state of his leadership the way he did  in that presser....wow , the pressure is on and he did not do his GM and head coach any favors.  ... Some may think, good the pressure should be on them ... I am one of those people , but man, Mr. Mara is his own worst enemy ....in my opinion again ...if he is willing to stay the course...which he has done,
then at least come out and fake it if need be.  show support for them and try to be positive about his team...
try to create a positive atmosphere for the team ... instead he has contributed to the current uncertainty that overwhelms the team at this time.

Maybe I am over reacting ...but until the Giants can show me something    ??? 

I feel that Mara has to show some change in his or his family's roles in the team as a sign of change from the top for the team to get better.. will it happen ?
hoping so