What areas of the team, if any, could you see being "good" relatively quickly?

[DaveBrown74]

Rich made a point in another thread about how, barring an exceptional set of circumstances, the Giants are likely to lose more games than they win for the foreseeable future. I agree with him.

However, I am curious - what areas/units of the team, if any (and maybe there aren't any), do you feel are somewhat close to being good? To be clear, let's define "good" as something like top 1/3 of the league. League average is not the same thing as good.

I am looking up and down the roster, and it is not an obvious answer, so I thought I'd create a thread about it.

Are there any individual units on the team that you could see being good as early as next year, and what would it take to achieve that?

[katkavage]

Rich made a point in another thread about how, barring an exceptional set of circumstances, the Giants are likely to lose more games than they win for the foreseeable future. I agree with him.

However, I am curious - what areas/units of the team, if any (and maybe there aren't any), do you feel are somewhat close to being good? I am looking up and down the roster, and it is not an obvious answer, so I thought I'd create a thread about it.

Are there any individual units on the team that you could see being good as early as next year, and what would it take to achieve that?

A top free agent guard or center with Thomas and Elumanor healthy along with some potential draft picks could make for a solid OL. Same on defense. A top run stopper to pair with Lawrence either through the draft or free agency would make for a solid DL. I see those as quicker improvements. But they won't result in that many wins without a huge upgrade at QB.

[Philosophers]

A top free agent guard or center with Thomas and Elumanor healthy along with some potential draft picks could make for a solid OL. Same on defense. A top run stopper to pair with Lawrence either through the draft or free agency would make for a solid DL. I see those as quicker improvements. But they won't result in that many wins without a huge upgrade at QB.

I dont know how OL improves quickly on assumption AT plays whole season.  He never makes it past first four games before getting injured.

[MightyGiants]

That is a really good question, Jeff.  My knee-jerk reaction was to start listing units that weren't bad.  As I started, I realized that as Giants fans, our definition of "good" has been skewed somewhat by years of mediocrity.  That good isn't just "not being bad"; rather, good really should be defined as, say, being in the top 10 in the league.

I will say, that quarterback, owing to the position just being one man, is always "close" to being good as you just need to hit on or get lucky with just one player.

I believe if the team adds one more quality WR that unit could become good, as Nabers has the potential to be elite and Robinson is a solid slot WR. 

If the Giants could find another quality edge rusher, I think the trio of KT, Burns, and the acquired edge (if he is good enough) could be considered good.

There are other good players sprinkled in the roster, but I don't think there is another unit that is "close"

[Philosophers]

That is a really good question, Jeff.  My knee-jerk reaction was to start listing units that weren't bad.  As I started, I realized that as Giants fans, our definition of "good" has been skewed somewhat by years of mediocrity.  That good isn't just "not being bad"; rather, good really should be defined as, say, being in the top 10 in the league.

I will say, that quarterback, owing to the position just being one man, is always "close" to being good as you just need to hit on or get lucky with just one player.

I believe if the team adds one more quality WR that unit could become good, as Nabers has the potential to be elite and Robinson is a solid slot WR. 

If the Giants could find another quality edge rusher, I think the trio of KT, Burns, and the acquired edge (if he is good enough) could be considered good.

There are other good players sprinkled in the roster, but I don't think there is another unit that is "close"

You are right Rich.  A really good WR2 to run deeper and intermediate routes and catch balls would really take pressure off Nabers and make him thrive more.  Create more of a AJ Brown/DeVonta Smith duo.  I am not high on Robinson.  He catches balls but only for 4 yard gains.

[DaveBrown74]

That is a really good question, Jeff.  My knee-jerk reaction was to start listing units that weren't bad.  As I started, I realized that as Giants fans, our definition of "good" has been skewed somewhat by years of mediocrity.  That good isn't just "not being bad"; rather, good really should be defined as, say, being in the top 10 in the league.

I will say, that quarterback, owing to the position just being one man, is always "close" to being good as you just need to hit on or get lucky with just one player.

I believe if the team adds one more quality WR that unit could become good, as Nabers has the potential to be elite and Robinson is a solid slot WR. 

If the Giants could find another quality edge rusher, I think the trio of KT, Burns, and the acquired edge (if he is good enough) could be considered good.

There are other good players sprinkled in the roster, but I don't think there is another unit that is "close"

Very good post Rich. I pretty much agree down the line.

Good point about the QB room always being "one player" away from the QB unit on your team being good. Even if you have a bad backup, if you have a top 1/3 of the league starter it is reasonable to say you have a "good QB room." I don't know that the Giants can get there with a free agent signing, save perhaps for Darnold if they were to go that route (which I doubt they will, plus he may not be available), so it would have to be a rookie. This seems to be a very weak QB class, but nobody ever really knows that, plus all it takes is one player.

Edge rush is tough. KT seems like he's landing somewhat in the classification of "decent." He's still young, so it's not too late to believe he might have a breakout year in 2025, but I don't love the odds. Still, Burns, while not an all-pro caliber type, is very good. Throw in someone like Abdul Carter in there (and he pans out), and you have a lot going for you on the edge. Not to mention you're getting penetration in the middle from Dex (which helps at edge).

I will agree on receiver, although I think we'd need someone very good on the other side of Nabers to call it a top 1/3 of the league receiver room. I also think we'd need to see Hyatt break out and actually do something of note this year. I'm very skeptical about the latter given what a non-factor he has been to this point, but I know some here whose opinions I respect feel strongly about him, so I'm happy to wait and see what we get. If he does nothing again next year, I'm permanently done with him. You can't be nowhere after three years as an NFL receiver and still be thought to have potential. That starts to get into David Sills land.

I don't think there is any way the O line can be top 1/3 of the league next year, but perhaps it could be average under certain circumstances. The secondary I see no way of being good. Same with ILB. IDL is tricky because we do have the best nose tackle in the league, but there isn't much else there, and teams with great D lines have a lot of depth and do a lot of rotating.

As much as I like Tracy, unless the Giants plan on using a  high 2nd rounder or something on getting a high end RB prospect, which I'd personally be very opposed to, I don't see any way we have a "top 1/3" RB room. We just don't have any depth. I do think we can have a competent RB room though.

[ozzie]

I dont know how OL improves quickly on assumption AT plays whole season.  He never makes it past first four games before getting injured.

And as good as Thomas is when healthy,  if the Giants have a chance for a solid starting Left Tackle, this is why I think they should get him, either thru FA  or the draft.
Thomas cannot be counted on to last the whole season.

[Trench]

Very good post Rich. I pretty much agree down the line.

Good point about the QB room always being "one player" away from the QB unit on your team being good. Even if you have a bad backup, if you have a top 1/3 of the league starter it is reasonable to say you have a "good QB room." I don't know that the Giants can get there with a free agent signing, save perhaps for Darnold if they were to go that route (which I doubt they will, plus he may not be available), so it would have to be a rookie. This seems to be a very weak QB class, but nobody ever really knows that, plus all it takes is one player.

Edge rush is tough. KT seems like he's landing somewhat in the classification of "decent." He's still young, so it's not too late to believe he might have a breakout year in 2025, but I don't love the odds. Still, Burns, while not an all-pro caliber type, is very good. Throw in someone like Abdul Carter in there (and he pans out), and you have a lot going for you on the edge. Not to mention you're getting penetration in the middle from Dex (which helps at edge).

I will agree on receiver, although I think we'd need someone very good on the other side of Nabers to call it a top 1/3 of the league receiver room. I also think we'd need to see Hyatt break out and actually do something of note this year. I'm very skeptical about the latter given what a non-factor he has been to this point, but I know some here whose opinions I respect feel strongly about him, so I'm happy to wait and see what we get. If he does nothing again next year, I'm permanently done with him. You can't be nowhere after three years as an NFL receiver and still be thought to have potential. That starts to get into David Sills land.

I don't think there is any way the O line can be top 1/3 of the league next year, but perhaps it could be average under certain circumstances. The secondary I see no way of being good. Same with ILB. IDL is tricky because we do have the best nose tackle in the league, but there isn't much else there, and teams with great D lines have a lot of depth and do a lot of rotating.

As much as I like Tracy, unless the Giants plan on using a  high 2nd rounder or something on getting a high end RB prospect, which I'd personally be very opposed to, I don't see any way we have a "top 1/3" RB room. We just don't have any depth. I do think we can have a competent RB room though.

We were made to believe Burns is not only All-Pro type - but also among the best in the NFL!!!!!!!!!!

Pat Hanlon strikes again I guess

[DaveBrown74]

The funny thing with Burns is he had a better season this year (statistically at least) than he did in Carolina last year. 8.5 sacks vs 8.0, and a lot more tackles and TFLs.

Burns to me is a very good but not exceptional player.

Did we overpay for him? Maybe a little bit. Was it that bad of a transaction given some of the other nonsense we have done in the last several years? No, not at all.

[EDjohnst1981]

Burns said he played through Achilles Tendonitis and groin injury this year.

Despite that he was second on the team in sacks and led the team (by a margin) in TFL.

I'm happy with what he have in him. We need players who can play, and Burns certainly can.

[uconnjack8]

If the Giants selected Abdul Carter at 3 and found a wide body later in the draft or in FA to spell Dex, the front 7 could be one of the best in football. 

I don't know the WRs in the draft well, but if they can get a solid #2 I think that group could a be a plus.  If they draft Hunter at #3 I think that could make the group a top 10 room.

[MightyGiants]

If the Giants selected Abdul Carter at 3 and found a wide body later in the draft or in FA to spell Dex, the front 7 could be one of the best in football. 

I don't know the WRs in the draft well, but if they can get a solid #2 I think that group could a be a plus.  If they draft Hunter at #3 I think that could make the group a top 10 room.

Matt,

They still need a 3 tech to start alongside Dex.   Carl Banks referred to Nacho as "sugar rush" he will go out and give you so good hard play but he wears down quickly.

[uconnjack8]

Matt,

They still need a 3 tech to start alongside Dex.   Carl Banks referred to Nacho as "sugar rush" he will go out and give you so good hard play but he wears down quickly.

I think they need a mediocre wide body to spell Dex and help with interior run D.  If they did in fact select Carter, then that person would not need to be on the field in passing situations, as you would have Carter, Burns, Thibs and Dex.  While having a Leonard Williams type would a be a plus, realistically, I don't think they upgrade that as much if the my select Carter. 

[Jclayton92]

If you get a Walter Nolen or Alfred Collins in the draft then the dline becomes top 5 in the NFL. Kt, nolen, Lawrence, Burns.

If you draft Travis Hunter or Will Johnson and pair them with an Adebo, or Reed in FA then the secondary becomes top 10 in the league Hunter, Reed, Phillips.

With a new Qb the wrs we have now could be top 10 to 15 because Wandale is a product of the qb we have, if the qb throws to him in rhythm and space he's deadly, if we have a qb that can go deep to actually use Hyatt and then nabers.

The oline was good until we dealt with injuries, so signing a Trey Smith to play RG and then a walker little for cheap as a swing tackle then you have Thomas, Runyan, Jms, Smith, Eluemunor and that's a good line.

Its why I said it Dan's thread we are like 6 guys away from being genuinely competitive plus a little depth.

[UncannyGfan]

I think they need a mediocre wide body to spell Dex and help with interior run D.  If they did in fact select Carter, then that person would not need to be on the field in passing situations, as you would have Carter, Burns, Thibs and Dex.  While having a Leonard Williams type would a be a plus, realistically, I don't think they upgrade that as much if the my select Carter. 

Who moves inside amongst Carter/Burns/Thibodeaux in the obvious pass rush situation? 

Tuck was a DE who could play DT.  Williams was a DT who could play DE.  They offered great situational defenses and rotations amongst both DT and DE group. 

I wouldn't object to adding a pass rusher like Carter to a Burns and Thibodeaux rotation but can any of them rotate inside?  I think otherwise keep all three on the outside and make each of the snaps they do play more effective, which would mean another DT alongside Dexter is a necessary upgrade this offseason.