Bowen Coming Back

[Brooklyn Dave]

His specialty was suppose to be run stoppage . Even with Dexter Lawrence that never materialized.

I am trying to look at this practically. Why would any decent DC come to the Giants knowning that Daboll is on very shaky grounds?  The only only alternative would have been to promote Patterson or Henderson and I guess that was not going to be the case.

I hope that we are not the perfect example of Einstein's definition of insanity !!!

[MightyGiants]

I think this is a situation where it's not that NYG is happy with Bowen, but rather they appreciate that with the lame-duck status of Schoen and Daboll, they simply were not going to get better.


https://x.com/CarlBanksGIII/status/1878543554487759044

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/NYPost_Schwartz/status/1878809545176125791

[uconnjack8]

I think this is a situation where it's not that NYG is happy with Bowen, but rather they appreciate that with the lame-duck status of Schoen and Daboll, they simply were not going to get better.


https://x.com/CarlBanksGIII/status/1878543554487759044

Carl hit on one of the guys that I have been thinking about....The CB with the same last name as him.  Have felt like he took a big step backwards when Bowen took over and it hurts to have a 1st rounder do that.  He obviously has talent and I think can be a good CB.  I don't really know the difference in how he was used in Wink's defense vs Bowens or the preferred techniques of either defense. 

Anyone have more insight on that?

[EDjohnst1981]

Is the lame duck status of both actually confirmed or is the view of fans who interpret Mara's vague comments about getting better as implying they are lame ducks?

I believe both are still under contract for multiple years and therefore, do not fit the description of a lame duck.

[londonblue]

ED I posted in another thread a perspective from talking to my relative who works in an AFC franchise. Whatever the technical definition 'lame duck' is definitely how Daboll is perceived (the views are a bit more mixed on Schoen's outlook).

[EDjohnst1981]

ED I posted in another thread a perspective from talking to my relative who works in an AFC franchise. Whatever the technical definition 'lame duck' is definitely how Daboll is perceived (the views are a bit more mixed on Schoen's outlook).

Thanks, mate. Will check that out - sounds very interesting to see some actual perspectives rather than internet fluff.

[MightyGiants]

Carl hit on one of the guys that I have been thinking about....The CB with the same last name as him.  Have felt like he took a big step backwards when Bowen took over and it hurts to have a 1st rounder do that.  He obviously has talent and I think can be a good CB.  I don't really know the difference in how he was used in Wink's defense vs Bowens or the preferred techniques of either defense. 

Anyone have more insight on that?

Banks' strong suits are his strength and ability to shadow receivers.  His weakness is ball skills (his ability to turn, identify the location and trajectory of the ball, and play that).  When he was playing a ton of press-man for Wink, the need for quality ball skills was minimized.  Under Bowen's use of more zones, the need for ball skills increased substantially

[MightyGiants]

Thanks, mate. Will check that out - sounds very interesting to see some actual perspectives rather than internet fluff.

Ed,

Did you notice how closely the perception from other teams matches what I have been saying for weeks?

[LennG]

Let's call a spade a spade, Bowen and his defensive schemes stink. Even at Tenn, their defenses were nothing special.
Personally, I think this is one of Daboll's biggest weaknesses, his ego for not looking at proven DCs and OCs regardless if they have been HCs before. Maybe he is so fearful that if he screws up, that OC or DC will be promoted to HC? I don't know, but as I watch the playoff teams I see many former HCs working on what they seem to do best, be great coordinators.
If Bowen is retained, our defenses will suffer tremendously.

[katkavage]

Let's call a spade a spade, Bowen and his defensive schemes stink. Even at Tenn, their defenses were nothing special.
Personally, I think this is one of Daboll's biggest weaknesses, his ego for not looking at proven DCs and OCs regardless if they have been HCs before. Maybe he is so fearful that if he screws up, that OC or DC will be promoted to HC? I don't know, but as I watch the playoff teams I see many former HCs working on what they seem to do best, be great coordinators.
If Bowen is retained, our defenses will suffer tremendously.

No one is coming here to work with a lame duck who has a terrible reputation working with his assistant coaches.

[ozzie]

I agree with you Lenn in that I think Daboll's ego is a huge factor. I think that's why he took play calling away from Kafka and I think it may also be as you said, he feels if one of his coordinators shines, it will reflect poorly on him.
It may also be his ego keeping top flight OC / DC's away. Daboll comes across to me as another guy who thinks he's always the smartest guy in the room. Who wants to work with that?
Of course I haven't read or heard any of this, just my opinions.

[MightyGiants]

Let's call a spade a spade, Bowen and his defensive schemes stink. Even at Tenn, their defenses were nothing special.
Personally, I think this is one of Daboll's biggest weaknesses, his ego for not looking at proven DCs and OCs regardless if they have been HCs before. Maybe he is so fearful that if he screws up, that OC or DC will be promoted to HC? I don't know, but as I watch the playoff teams I see many former HCs working on what they seem to do best, be great coordinators.
If Bowen is retained, our defenses will suffer tremendously.

Prior to the season, the sense I got was Bowen ran rather basic schemes that were easy for players to learn and play fast in.   To succeed, the players needed to be talented and play above the Xs and Os (boosted by being able to play fast because of the scheme's simplicity).   This was pretty much the opposite of what the team had with Wink, whose schemes were tricky and challenging to learn.

I will confess that I prefer a DC who can out-coach his offensive counterpart, but, unfortunately, that's not Bowen.   Equally, unfortunately, the Giants are unlikely to attract a DC better than Bowen due to the situation.

[MightyGiants]

Is the lame duck status of both actually confirmed or is the view of fans who interpret Mara's vague comments about getting better as implying they are lame ducks?

I believe both are still under contract for multiple years and therefore, do not fit the description of a lame duck.

Technically, both of them have two more years on their contract.  However, with the exception of Jerry Jones (who seems to just let his HC contract expire), most owners care little about the end of a contract.  If they like the HC or GM they will extend them before they play their final year, or they will fire them as early as they want (we have seen HCs get fired after a single season and a GM fired as early as two years).  It costs the owners a little money, but it has no salary cap implications or similar issues that will prevent a team from competing

[GordonGekko80]

If that's true, it's totally destined to fail.