Which Jersey will sell the most year one?

[madbadger]

His number was retired because of what he did on the field. He's in the HoF because of what he did on the field.

His personal transgressions have nothing to do with football or having his # retired.

It should.

[Ed Vette]

It should.

That's an interesting argument. I wonder how good he could have been if he lead a different lifestyle. To your point, he's a role model for the youth and was the actual face of the franchise. That era was exposed to a lot of partying. It took down a lot of players in football and Baseball. Killed the '86 Mets. 

The other point raised by @kartanoman was the need stop retiring numbers and how it's unnecessary with the Ring of Honor now.

I still believe there is a generation of fans that would be adamantly and some vehemently against it.

[T200]

It should.

That's an interesting argument. I wonder how good he could have been if he lead a different lifestyle. To your point, he's a role model for the youth and was the actual face of the franchise. That era was exposed to a lot of partying. It took down a lot of players in football and Baseball. Killed the '86 Mets. 

The other point raised by @kartanoman was the need stop retiring numbers and how it's unnecessary with the Ring of Honor now.

I still believe there is a generation of fans that would be adamantly and some vehemently against it.

I think people, in general, are smarter than we give them credit for. Sports fans idolize their athletes because of what they do in their respective sport, not because of what they do in their personal lives. Players in the 90s and 2000s wore 56 because of LT. He's still the gold standard when it comes to defensive dominance.

LT's behavior off the field didn't negatively affect his performance on it. If the organization chooses to honor him by not letting future players wear his number, I'm fine with it. I can separate the athlete from the criminal.

[madbadger]

I think people, in general, are smarter than we give them credit for. Sports fans idolize their athletes because of what they do in their respective sport, not because of what they do in their personal lives. Players in the 90s and 2000s wore 56 because of LT. He's still the gold standard when it comes to defensive dominance.

LT's behavior off the field didn't negatively affect his performance on it. If the organization chooses to honor him by not letting future players wear his number, I'm fine with it. I can separate the athlete from the criminal.

There is absolutely no way his abuse of alcohol, cocaine and prostitutes (especially the underaged ones) had zero impact on his performance. There's a legendary tale of him driving past the stadium hung over on the way to play golf only to realize that it was game day and the game was starting in less than an hour. How out of your mind do you have to be to forget your team has a game? He was the best defensive player of all time in talent alone. We'll never know how other worldly he would have been if he wasn't a total degenerate.

[MightyGiants]

There is absolutely no way his abuse of alcohol, cocaine and prostitutes (especially the underaged ones) had zero impact on his performance. There's a legendary tale of him driving past the stadium hung over on the way to play golf only to realize that it was game day and the game was starting in less than an hour. How out of your mind do you have to be to forget your team has a game? He was the best defensive player of all time in talent alone. We'll never know how other worldly he would have been if he wasn't a total degenerate.

Not only was there the abuse, but he didn't take good care of his body.  Harry Carson told us a story of LT hanging out in the old Giants stadium where the steam pipes were sweating his ass off to try and make weight.

On a side note, I don't think abuse of prostitutes impacted his performance unless he caught an STD 

[Stringer Bell]

I would love nothing more than to see Cam receive the privilege of wearing jersey #4 in the same manner that Nabers reached out to the Flaherty family to request unretiring #1. The Leemans family participates in the Giants "Ring of Honor" and other history-related gatherings at the Sardine Can. So, it is certainly possible that Cam could reach out to them to make a special request for #4. Personally, I have always felt that once the Giants' Ring of Honor was officially activated, the concept of jersey numbers being "retired," or taken out of circulation, became antiquated, and that the numbers should be used for future generations to write their own history since those originally honored by the jersey retirement are now in the Ring of Honor, which should be designated as the greatest honor the Football Giants can bestow upon a player, coach, or contributor.

So, if you are reading this, Cam and the Leemans family, it would be wonderful if you all could get together and discuss this opportunity. I have no doubt in my mind that Cam would bring great honor and credit to Alphonse, our Legendary Giants' Running Back, whose legend took him to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, as well as the Giants' Ring of Honor. He will NEVER be forgotten in Giants lore.

Peace!

Cam should wear 44. Doesn't force the conversation to un-retire 4, and he's the embodiment of many other bruising RBs and FBs who have worn that number - Jim Brown, John Riggins, Tom Rathman, etc.

[jimc]

Cam should wear 44. Doesn't force the conversation to un-retire 4, and he's the embodiment of many other bruising RBs and FBs who have worn that number - Jim Brown, John Riggins, Tom Rathman, etc.

I think Jim Brown was 32.

[T200]

There is absolutely no way his abuse of alcohol, cocaine and prostitutes (especially the underaged ones) had zero impact on his performance. There's a legendary tale of him driving past the stadium hung over on the way to play golf only to realize that it was game day and the game was starting in less than an hour. How out of your mind do you have to be to forget your team has a game? He was the best defensive player of all time in talent alone. We'll never know how other worldly he would have been if he wasn't a total degenerate.

You're right... he could have been much more if he had taken care of his health and body better. The point I was trying to make was that he was still the best player on the field even if he wasn't at his best.

[madbadger]

Not only was there the abuse, but he didn't take good care of his body.  Harry Carson told us a story of LT hanging out in the old Giants stadium where the steam pipes were sweating his ass off to try and make weight.

On a side note, I don't think abuse of prostitutes impacted his performance unless he caught an STD 

When you're living a lifestyle like he did it is impossible to be at your peak. No man can serve two masters. Whoring and film study don't mix.

[Puffy]

I think Jim Brown was 32.

He was with the Browns.  He wore 44 at SU.  I believe that kicked off the SU 44 legacy (much like the current 11 legacy at modern day Penn St). 

It went Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little.  I think Little Joe might have worn 44 at SU in the 80s as well but I might be wrong on that

[Stringer Bell]

I think Jim Brown was 32.

Yes, he wore 32 with the Browns. But I always think of him as 44, his number at Syracuse - along with Ernie Davis and Floyd Little.