Big Blue Huddle

Jim,

I have to disagree.  The reality is we have to believe rather far fetched and unlikely version of events to even begin to consider letting Zimmerman off from the homicide he committed.   We know for a fact that Zimmerman stalked Martin.  We have no indication that Martin jumped him as you claim. 

As for the law this comes right out of it:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

1)  It's reasonable to assert Zimmerman initiated the confrontation so he was "not attacked" as required by law

2)  As I said a much larger man engaged in a fist fight does not have a reasonable expectation of death or serious bodily harm.

The Giants kept 5 CBs and 5 Ss last year.

Also didn't they bump the game day roster to 46 and did away with the 3rd QB rule?

Quote from: JimboWHO on June 03, 2012, 11:05:04 AM

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 03, 2012, 10:37:11 AM
Ed,

Here's the timeline.  Both men were entitled to be in the community.  Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin because Zimmerman ignored the guidelines and instructions he had been given by the people who set of the community watch and the police on the phone.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-09/trayvon-martin-timeline-florida-shooting/54129274/1

Jim,

An innocent unarmed man was killed by a deliberate gunshot.   As such someone belongs in jail.

You mean to say if you're gonna kill me I can't kill you first?  I can't defend myself even with lethal force If I feel my life is threatened?

The law says otherwise and we are a nation of laws.


JJM

Jim,

In 26 years or tending to people that got into fist fights, I have not seen or has my squad tended to someone who was killed.   Fist fights are almost never fatal especially for the bigger guy (Zimmerman outweighed Martin by quite a bit) and there is no martial arts trained fighters.  So again the man that shot and killed an innocent unarmed man belongs in jail.

Ed,

Here's the timeline.  Both men were entitled to be in the community.  Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin because Zimmerman ignored the guidelines and instructions he had been given by the people who set of the community watch and the police on the phone.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-09/trayvon-martin-timeline-florida-shooting/54129274/1

Jim,

An innocent unarmed man was killed by a deliberate gunshot.   As such someone belongs in jail.

Former Seahawk starting QB Marcus Trufant is moving inside and talks about the adjustment

QuoteTrufant

Quote from: Derach on June 03, 2012, 06:43:02 AM
  If I start a fight with you, you then proceed to kick my ass, and I shoot you, I'm still at fault.

That's a major point, you don't bring a gun to a fist fight

Quote from: worf49 on June 02, 2012, 02:40:37 PM
JimboWHO  He caused the confrontation because he should not have been anywhere near the kid after reporting a "suspicious person".

Try reading the lead Detective's report and also consider that very same detective did not believe much of Zimmerman's story.

The Detective wanted to arrest Zimmerman but was backed off by The Florida DA for some reason as yet not detailed.

One has to wonder how Zimmerman's dad a former judge may have influenced events that transpired after the killing.

Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 01:59:00 PM

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 01, 2012, 10:47:13 PM
The "evidence" was not exactly sound.  Reports from Zimmerman's hand picked doctor are hardly credible.  What will be credible are the EMT report and the police statements and pictures of any wounds.  We have seen video of Zimmerman reporting to the station house not looking anything like what George's doctor claimed.  Not that is all that surprising as there are doctors who will stretch the truth for the patient so they can get out of work, file phony lawsuits or in this case help keep a murderer out of jail.

Secondly the witness statements about who was on top were clearly coached as the statements did not match human visual ability.  The statements involved identifying a man on top by the color of his shirt.  Now it was a dark night and there is a funny thing about human's ability to perceive color, it doesn't exist when it gets dark.  Try it yourself go out when it's near the end of dusk or darker and notice how vision goes to a basic black and white and colors become difficult to determine.

The police failed to do their job and let the killer walk free.  That gave Zimmerman plenty of time to work with his daddy the judge and his lawyer a to concoct a story and fabricate evidence like his doctor's report

Finally it seems Zimmerman's penchant for lying has pissed off the judge.   First he lied to the judge when he told the judge he was out of work and broke (when he actually had raised over $200,000 from people who rewarded him with large sums of cash for killing an unarmed black teenager) and he only turned in one of his two passports.  So the judge has revoked the killer's bail and he is going to be spending time in prison until his trial

I agree with the messed up laws in Florida justice may not be served, but the reality is Zimmerman is a killer that killed an unarmed and innocent teen and he deserves to spend a long time in jail.

I think you're off the rails here. 

Not only are you convicting Zimmerman without hearing the evidence you are smearing his doctor, making claims of witnesses being coached and alleging the police failed to do their job and "let a 'killer' walk free".

You are questioning eyewitness accounts immediately after the shooting by two people who place Zimmerman under Martin with Martin flailing away?  You choose to disregard the photo obtained by ABC news that shows Zimmerman's bloody head  - a photo taken 3 minutes after the police arrived on the scene.  A bloody back of head, consistent with Zimmerman's claims of Martin bashing his head into the concrete.

Perhaps you were taken in by the media outcry and Sharpton's rent-a-riot, etc. but I have not been.  Taken in by the years-old cherubic photo of Martin supplied by the family that bore little resemblance to what he looks like today.  A photo designed to ilicit sympathy.  Taken in by the first reports of the "large man Zimmerman" shooting the "smaller boy Martin".    Martin was 6'2".

If the facts reveal Zimmerman recklessly and needlessly killed Martin then I'm with you - he should go to jail.   It seems to me though, that you are acting recklessly above.


JJM

The facts that are not in dispute:

Zimmerman has two arrested for violence

Zimmerman's former coworker has stated he was harassed by Zimmerman with racist statements

Zimmerman made frequent complaints to the police about black teens in his housing complex

Zimmerman went out armed with a concealed weapon

Martin was unarmed and returning from the store and was not engaged in criminal activity

Zimmerman failed to follow police instructions to stay in the car

Zimmerman got into a confrontation with the teenage boy

Zimmerman shot the unarmed teen

The police failed to follow standard procedure and test George for drugs and alcohol

The video taken of ZImmerman getting out of the patrol car shows no blood or significant injury

Zimmerman was able to walk away scott free for  44 days

You and others on this thread have mischaracterized demands that Zimmerman be arrested and tried for his crimes as "the media trying to rush to conviction".

Now my opinion

I find this whole case and the reaction of many of Zimmerman's supporters (which are not people on this thread) as proof that racism is alive and well in the USA despite the election of a black President.   Did you hear about the sale of George Martin paper shoot targets?  They cam complete with hoodie, skittles and a bottle of ice tea.   Nothing more fun than practicing shooting black unarmed teenagers 

I will also say I found the comments that the only way Zimmerman could possibly be found guilty of murder, for shooting an innocent unarmed black teenage, is that whites would be scared, highly offensive.


Oh and btw as someone who would qualify as an expert witness on EMT's and treatment I find the pictures taken by the police to be highly suspect.  It's a fact that ZImmerman was treated at the scene by EMT's and then refused transport to the hospital.  Now as someone that has been a practicing EMT for 26 years I know what the treatment at the scene would have entailed.  First off the EMT would have stopped the bleeding if it had not already done so.  Yet, when you look at the alleged picture there is no smearing of the blood or indication of any sort of treatment.   Secondly the EMT should have put a bandage on the wound and that wasn't done either.   With that knowledge combined with the conflicting images on video I have serious doubts as to the photo's authenticity. 

As I said Zimmerman's bail has been revoked for lying to the judge about his finances (to get his bail reduced) and he only turned in one of his two passports.    So as for what exactly went down we have the word of a proven liar with the advantage of the old adage dead men tell no tales.   


Oh and a final little puzzle, Martin's lifeless body was found on the grass.  If this supposed struggle took place on the grace, how did Zimmerman get those supposed lacerations?   



It's a sad state of affairs when a violent man goes out and hunts down an innocent teenager and there are actually people trying to claim anyone thinking that is murder must be an evil liberal, a dupe of the liberal media or a racist black person.   The reality is this was a tragic situation where a mother lost a child that she had sent to the store and a young life was needlessly cut short.   The nation should have united in demands for a trial and justice to be done.  Yet that hasn't been what has happened.  Instead it became a political and racial football.

Quote from: tomeee on June 02, 2012, 08:40:27 AM
So mod's are you going to report your grades of this experiment.

I give it a D minus.

That's about what I would give it. 

The "evidence" was not exactly sound.  Reports from Zimmerman's hand picked doctor are hardly credible.  What will be credible are the EMT report and the police statements and pictures of any wounds.  We have seen video of Zimmerman reporting to the station house not looking anything like what George's doctor claimed.  Not that is all that surprising as there are doctors who will stretch the truth for the patient so they can get out of work, file phony lawsuits or in this case help keep a murderer out of jail.

Secondly the witness statements about who was on top were clearly coached as the statements did not match human visual ability.  The statements involved identifying a man on top by the color of his shirt.  Now it was a dark night and there is a funny thing about human's ability to perceive color, it doesn't exist when it gets dark.  Try it yourself go out when it's near the end of dusk or darker and notice how vision goes to a basic black and white and colors become difficult to determine.

The police failed to do their job and let the killer walk free.  That gave Zimmerman plenty of time to work with his daddy the judge and his lawyer a to concoct a story and fabricate evidence like his doctor's report

Finally it seems Zimmerman's penchant for lying has pissed off the judge.   First he lied to the judge when he told the judge he was out of work and broke (when he actually had raised over $200,000 from people who rewarded him with large sums of cash for killing an unarmed black teenager) and he only turned in one of his two passports.  So the judge has revoked the killer's bail and he is going to be spending time in prison until his trial

I agree with the messed up laws in Florida justice may not be served, but the reality is Zimmerman is a killer that killed an unarmed and innocent teen and he deserves to spend a long time in jail.   

In my life time;

Bill Clinton-  8 years of peace and prosperity along with turning record deficits into record surplus can't be beat

Historically, pick one:

Lincoln-  Successfully guided our nation through a civil war

FDR-   Brought our nation out of the Great Depression and guided the nation through a world war

Washington-  He had a huge impact on the office and our nation.   He did a lot that set precedence that is still followed today.

Billick Chalktalk: When a QB can identify man or zone he wins

WNST.net owner and former Super Bowl winning coach of the Baltimore Ravens Brian Billick talks Chalktalk with local NFL fans at Mother's Federal Hill Grille.

Pat Kirwan does a really good job explaining this

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19195136/inside-triangle-key-to-every-teams-1st-and-2nddown-success-on-d

Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 12:12:46 PM

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 30, 2012, 10:02:56 AM

Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 09:00:21 AM
For me, I never saw Gifford play except for highlight reels. He was way before my time. I remember Morris - vaguely. Same goes for OJ. I don't really remember Hampton, oddly enough, but that's probably because he played on some poor teams. Tiki is probably the freshest in my mind and like others have said, his off the field antics and the way he left the team left a bad taste in my mouth. However, when he played it was hard to not root for him. If I had to pick the best though, it's hard to say but both OJ and Morris were favorites of mine, yet I agree that Tiki was an all around player. I'd probably, on a very slight margin, go with Tiki. I can't really stand him now though.

Is that Weatherford in your avatar?

Yes, he is. That's from the ring ceremony. I thought he looks excited, yet kind of silly (I think it was his "suit") so I decided to use the pic as my avatar.

There is no doubt that Weatherford fully enjoyed going to the Super Bowl

NY Giants' Steve Weatherford is going to the Superbowl 2012

Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 09:00:21 AM
For me, I never saw Gifford play except for highlight reels. He was way before my time. I remember Morris - vaguely. Same goes for OJ. I don't really remember Hampton, oddly enough, but that's probably because he played on some poor teams. Tiki is probably the freshest in my mind and like others have said, his off the field antics and the way he left the team left a bad taste in my mouth. However, when he played it was hard to not root for him. If I had to pick the best though, it's hard to say but both OJ and Morris were favorites of mine, yet I agree that Tiki was an all around player. I'd probably, on a very slight margin, go with Tiki. I can't really stand him now though.

Is that Weatherford in your avatar?