I think this team just doesn't get it. The offense lives and dies through their line.
Just throwing bodies at it doesn't work. Other teams' leftovers is not the way to have a dominant O line.
Just look at the Steelers. Their O line was decent, check their draft!
Evan Neal is a bust, who is the RT we can rely on to stop the pressure on DJ from that edge? Are they really relying on Eluemunor or Cajuste?
Who is behind Schmitz? Even if he improves, who's backing him up, Morrissey?
This to me is weird.. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. They are ignoring to address the line effectively, like they did last year too.
They are going to roll with Evan Neal again and already threw a bunch of bodies at the line via free agency. It is what it is. 🤷
No. They signed five free agents and two likely start. They allocated assets in the draft in 2022 and assets in free agency in 2023. It is a sensible approach as veterans provide more space for the new OL coach to see if he can get more out of at least one of the 2022 guys.
Quote from: GloryDays on April 27, 2024, 01:50:05 PMI think this team just doesn't get it. The offense lives and dies through their line.
Just throwing bodies at it doesn't work. Other teams' leftovers is not the way to have a dominant O line.
Just look at the Steelers. Their O line was decent, check their draft!
Evan Neal is a bust, who is the RT we can rely on to stop the pressure on DJ from that edge? Are they really relying on Eluemunor or Cajuste?
Who is behind Schmitz? Even if he improves, who's backing him up, Morrissey?
This to me is weird.. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. They are ignoring to address the line effectively, like they did last year too.
GDays: IMO they have confidence in OL's they've drafted in prior years -or- they plan to catch a veteran cut this summer or on final cut-down-day -or- they think they can draft a guard some time today -or- all of the above. Bob
Quote from: londonblue on April 27, 2024, 01:56:05 PMNo. They signed five free agents and two likely start. They allocated assets in the draft in 2022 and assets in free agency in 2023. It is a sensible approach as veterans provide more space for the new OL coach to see if he can get more out of at least one of the 2022 guys.
*5 OL signed in 2024 including a 30M dollar pass blocking LG and 7M/year RT/RG
*NYG #1 in NFL in resources allocated to OL in last 5 years
*New OL coach could be the biggest improvement as he effects all 5 players on the line
I would say no.....
Free agent additions
OT MATT NELSON
OC/OG AUSTIN SCHLOTTMANN
OG AARON STINNIE
OL JERMAINE ELUEMUNOR
OG JON RUNYAN, JR
OC JIMMY MORRISSEY
The Giants can't draft offensive linemen to save their lives (Thomas being a notable exception), so maybe throwing a bunch of free agents at the problem...
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 27, 2024, 02:00:13 PMFree agent additions
OT MATT NELSON
OC/OG AUSTIN SCHLOTTMANN
OG AARON STINNIE
OL JERMAINE ELUEMUNOR
OG JON RUNYAN, JR
OC JIMMY MORRISSEY
The Giants can't draft offensive linemen to save their lives (Thomas being a notable exception), so maybe throwing a bunch of free agents at the problem...
I have concerns about Thomas' ability to stay healthy. Let's hope it's unwarranted.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 27, 2024, 02:00:13 PMFree agent additions
OT MATT NELSON
OC/OG AUSTIN SCHLOTTMANN
OG AARON STINNIE
OL JERMAINE ELUEMUNOR
OG JON RUNYAN, JR
OC JIMMY MORRISSEY
The Giants can't draft offensive linemen to save their lives (Thomas being a notable exception), so maybe throwing a bunch of free agents at the problem...
And finally an line coach that may be worth his NFL salary :doh:
At least it's a bunch of C+ guys instead of the D- to C- group they had the bring in. I did want a Guard in the Second Round but I guess they wanted to upgrade the McKless Unit.
How is the O line being ignored? They replaced the O line coach with someone who, on paper at least, appears to be a clear upgrade. They signed one of the most expensive free agent guards on the open market. The brought in Jermaine Elumenor, who played RT at a roughly 70 PFF level for our new O line coach in Vegas last year and can also play guard, and they brought in a few other players. Plus we still have two more picks in this draft not to mention the potential to sign more free agents this summer.
I wouldn't call this ignoring the line at all.
Quote from: GloryDays on April 27, 2024, 01:50:05 PMI think this team just doesn't get it. The offense lives and dies through their line.
Just throwing bodies at it doesn't work. Other teams' leftovers is not the way to have a dominant O line.
Just look at the Steelers. Their O line was decent, check their draft!
Evan Neal is a bust, who is the RT we can rely on to stop the pressure on DJ from that edge? Are they really relying on Eluemunor or Cajuste?
Who is behind Schmitz? Even if he improves, who's backing him up, Morrissey?
This to me is weird.. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. They are ignoring to address the line effectively, like they did last year too.
I dunno, I keep reading here that the line is going to be much improved this year. /sarcasm/
Gotta let dudes develop. We can't keep drafting guys without giving the guys we already have time to flourish or fail.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 27, 2024, 02:10:22 PMI dunno, I keep reading here that the line is going to be much improved this year. /sarcasm/
So what part of the line do you not expect to be at least solid to good?
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 27, 2024, 02:00:13 PMFree agent additions
OT MATT NELSON
OC/OG AUSTIN SCHLOTTMANN
OG AARON STINNIE
OL JERMAINE ELUEMUNOR
OG JON RUNYAN, JR
OC JIMMY MORRISSEY
The Giants can't draft offensive linemen to save their lives (Thomas being a notable exception), so maybe throwing a bunch of free agents at the problem...
Eluemunor started at right tackle for the Raiders and can play guard. Runyan is a solid starter at LG. Stinnie was a solid guard with Tampa until a knee injury in preseason ended his season. All three are pretty good linemen. Morrisey and Schlottman are backups with Matt Nelson the backup swing tackle.
Schoen's philosophy this year was to get proven players rather than rolling the dice on Draft picks. With the hard salary cap, teams have to make difficult decisions. Stinnie suffered an injury. I wouldn't classify these guys as "castoffs".
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 27, 2024, 02:13:31 PMGotta let dudes develop. We can't keep drafting guys without giving the guys we already have time to flourish or fail.
Excellent point.
Half the best OL players in the NFL were drafted (or undrafted altogether) on the third day
Some very good ones left...my favorite, Walter Rouse (OT/OG Penn St.). 6'5"/324...Smart, was going to become a surgeon before focusing on football. Best fit inside, but played a lot of tackle and could be swing tackle
Beaux Limmer (6'5"/310) is still on the board. He's played all the spots on the inside, but has been Arkansas' center the last year, taking over the spot when Ricky Stromberg was drafted last year
It comes down to team building philosophy and the ability to assess O line talent.
May be ignoring the line is the wrong word; they certainly have devoted a lot of valuable assets to it, but so far the efforts have had dismal results. Last year they ignored that they made a mistake and Neal is no good.. they ROLLED THE DICE, and they got snake eyes. My question is, are they rolling the dice again?
I brought up Pittsburgh as an example. PFF ranked their O line as the # 12 in the league.
Here is their picks through 4 rounds:
Round 1: No. 20-Troy Fautanu, G, Washington
Round 2: No. 51- Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia
Round 3: No. 84-Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan
Round 3: No. 98 (Compensatory - from PHI)-Payton Wilson, LB, North Carolina State
Round 4: No. 119-Mason McCormick, G, South Dakota State
Are they stupid?!
Quote from: GloryDays on April 27, 2024, 02:52:09 PMIt comes down to team building philosophy and the ability to assess O line talent.
May be ignoring the line is the wrong word; they certainly have devoted a lot of valuable assets to it, but so far the efforts have had dismal results. Last year they ignored that they made a mistake and Neal is no good.. they ROLLED THE DICE, and they got snake eyes. My question is, are they rolling the dice again?
I brought up Pittsburgh as an example. PFF ranked their O line as the # 12 in the league.
Here is their picks through 4 rounds:
Round 1: No. 20-Troy Fautanu, G, Washington
Round 2: No. 51- Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia
Round 3: No. 84-Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan
Round 3: No. 98 (Compensatory - from PHI)-Payton Wilson, LB, North Carolina State
Round 4: No. 119-Mason McCormick, G, South Dakota State
Are they stupid?!
Probably not. They plan on having another Iron Curtain for the next decade. Picking up Payton Wilson will be an exciting player to watch. They are going to fall in love with him
Quote from: GloryDays on April 27, 2024, 02:52:09 PMIt comes down to team building philosophy and the ability to assess O line talent.
May be ignoring the line is the wrong word; they certainly have devoted a lot of valuable assets to it, but so far the efforts have had dismal results. Last year they ignored that they made a mistake and Neal is no good.. they ROLLED THE DICE, and they got snake eyes. My question is, are they rolling the dice again?
I brought up Pittsburgh as an example. PFF ranked their O line as the # 12 in the league.
Here is their picks through 4 rounds:
Round 1: No. 20-Troy Fautanu, G, Washington
Round 2: No. 51- Zach Frazier, C, West Virginia
Round 3: No. 84-Roman Wilson, WR, Michigan
Round 3: No. 98 (Compensatory - from PHI)-Payton Wilson, LB, North Carolina State
Round 4: No. 119-Mason McCormick, G, South Dakota State
Are they stupid?!
Of course not, but you can't just pull up one team from one year and look at their draft picks through four rounds and then say because we're not doing what they're doing we're ignoring the line. How many times have they drafted O linemen in the first four rounds over the last six years? How many have we? If we're going to do comparisons we should probably do more than just look at two days of roster management work.
The Giants have done a very poor job at improving their O line over the past decade. Nobody is denying that. I would suggest that the problems run deeper than just continuing to throw as many draft picks at the problem as possible. We have kind of already tried that. Scouting, player development, traiing/medical, and coaching matter too. Maybe we're not looking at the problem holistically enough. I can almost guarantee you the Steelers are much better than us at all those other things I listed.
They have sunk how many high picks on OL?? And signed a bunch of guys. And added a new coach. They are addressing it.
Maybe if they had a QB with pocket awareness who could read defenses and run an offense there wouldn't be so many sacks. The OL should be improved, they need help too, not always the other way around.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 27, 2024, 02:57:06 PMProbably not. They plan on having another Iron Curtain for the next decade. Picking up Payton Wilson will be an exciting player to watch. They are going to fall in love with him
Is there new ownership in Pittsburgh that's communist?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 27, 2024, 02:58:33 PMOf course not, but you can't just pull up one team from one year and look at their draft picks through four rounds and then say because we're not doing what they're doing we're ignoring the line. How many times have they drafted O linemen in the first four rounds over the last six years? How many have we? If we're going to do comparisons we should probably do more than just look at two days of roster management work.
The Giants have done a very poor job at improving their O line over the past decade. Nobody is denying that. I would suggest that the problems run deeper than just continuing to throw as many draft picks at the problem as possible. We have kind of already tried that. Scouting, player development, traiing/medical, and coaching matter too. Maybe we're not looking at the problem holistically enough. I can almost guarantee you the Steelers are much better than us at all those other things I listed.
Yes, the problem that they seem to have not addressed, except may be for the new O line coach, is their scouting and O line talent assessment.. by now it should have been clear to Schoen that they suck in that area.
We have what 13 linemen on the roster? No other team would want 10 of those!
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 27, 2024, 02:16:31 PMSo what part of the line do you not expect to be at least solid to good?
One guard, RT and back ups.
Quote from: GloryDays on April 27, 2024, 03:20:54 PMYes, the problem that they seem to have not addressed, except may be for the new O line coach, is their scouting and O line talent assessment.. by now it should have been clear to Schoen that they suck in that area.
We have what 13 linemen on the roster? No other team would want 10 of those!
I mean we don't know that. Bobby Johnson may have been the bigger issue. Wait and see what talent looks like when it's properly coached.
Well..they are counting on the new OL coach apparently to salvage Neal. That is sketchy, at best.
Quote from: StompYouOT on April 27, 2024, 03:03:21 PMThey have sunk how many high picks on OL?? And signed a bunch of guys. And added a new coach. They are addressing it.
Maybe if they had a QB with pocket awareness who could read defenses and run an offense there wouldn't be so many sacks. The OL should be improved, they need help too, not always the other way around.
Maybe if they had a decent line and our QB had a pocket, we'd know if he had pocket awareness.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 27, 2024, 02:16:31 PMSo what part of the line do you not expect to be at least solid to good?
I need to see it before I believe it. We've been sold this bill of goods many times since 2012.
Mahogany was still there!!
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 27, 2024, 03:25:50 PMI mean we don't know that. Bobby Johnson may have been the bigger issue. Wait and see what talent looks like when it's properly coached.
How many O line coaches have they had over the last 12 years? All of a sudden it's the position coach's fault.
Quote from: Giant Jim on April 27, 2024, 03:35:12 PMHow many O line coaches have they had over the last 12 years? All of a sudden it's the position coach's fault.
Well Feliciano just had an elite season ala 81.2 pff this year after looking just meh as a Giant in 2022.
No picks through 5. Giants seem happy with what they have. Prolly want to focus on an offensive line with some level of experience across the board. Minimize potential of variability opting for reliability.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 27, 2024, 03:41:11 PMWell Feliciano just had an elite season ala 81.2 pff this year after looking just meh as a Giant in 2022.
One player, one season? How many other teams have a revolving door for offensive line coaches? PFF is a poor stat I don't value.
I'm as frustrated with the o line over the last decade as anybody, but I feel like they did do their best to address this in free agency. I was hoping for an IOL at some point and we could have grabbed Beebe instead of Nubin. We'll see how that turns out 2 times a year since the Cowboys got Beebe. I'm tired too of trying to feel hopeful about an o line that continually blows, but there's a long list of mistakes made over the past decade that got us here. At some point, we simply have to hit on the o line coach and the pieces we've brought in. No injuries would be nice too.
Quote from: Ed Vette on April 27, 2024, 02:07:46 PMAt least it's a bunch of C+ guys instead of the D- to C- group they had the bring in. I did want a Guard in the Second Round but I guess they wanted to upgrade the McKless Unit.
Ed: I wanted a guard too (in round three/four). Maybe they got "aced out" by a team slightly ahead of them... or maybe they have reason to believe Evan Neal will be much improved this year (I don't have such reason). That is the key, because Eluemunor is a very solid guard (but he can't be if he must play right tackle)... or maybe they view the situation at defensive backfield as more "dire" now that they signed two decent free-agent linemen. Bob
Quote from: sjones71 on April 28, 2024, 07:54:36 AMI'm as frustrated with the o line over the last decade as anybody, but I feel like they did do their best to address this in free agency. I was hoping for an IOL at some point and we could have grabbed Beebe instead of Nubin. We'll see how that turns out 2 times a year since the Cowboys got Beebe. I'm tired too of trying to feel hopeful about an o line that continually blows, but there's a long list of mistakes made over the past decade that got us here. At some point, we simply have to hit on the o line coach and the pieces we've brought in. No injuries would be nice too.
The Giants have not shown an ability to draft and develop rookie O-linemen so it makes sense to try and veteran free agent route
Quote from: Giant Jim on April 28, 2024, 12:17:29 AMOne player, one season? How many other teams have a revolving door for offensive line coaches? PFF is a poor stat I don't value.
I listed 1 guy yes, but you can ask a ton of guys here, there are a ton of examples of players on the line leaving and playing exceptional elsewhere that couldn't do anything here.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 28, 2024, 09:57:37 AMI listed 1 guy yes, but you can ask a ton of guys here, there are a ton of examples of players on the line leaving and playing exceptional elsewhere that couldn't do anything here.
Not sure if he was exceptional, but Hernandez was at least solid as a starting guard for one of the best running offenses in the NFL last year.
Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
I get #Giants fan frustrations about no OL or DL, but maybe it's time to try a new approach at OL. They've relied so heavily on rookies/young players & to no surprise we've seen a lot of mental & communication errors. Missed stunts, etc.
The 2024 OL has veteran depth. You may not know/like them, but they've played in the NFL & offer a diff level of baseline.
I often think fans somewhat overrate the importance of coaching (relative to the importance of the actual talent level on the roster), but with O line in particular I think coaching matters quite a bit. I don't know exactly how good Carmen Bricillo is or will be, but I am extremely confident that he is at least somewhat of an upgrade over Woody Johnson, and I am cautiously optimistic that he may be a very large upgrade over Woody Johnson. I'm eager to see what impact he is able to have.
Neal was a total disaster for us at RT last year as well as in his rookie year. That was a major source of the trouble (albeit far from the only one). Elumenor played at a respectable level last year at RT for Vegas, for Bricilo. I don't know if they're planning on giving Neal another shot at RT and using Elumenor as a guard, but either way I think it's safe to say that we'll have much better RT play this year. Either Neal suddenly gets much better, or Elumenor takes over. Either way, that side of the line will be a lot better than the last couple of years, where we were counting on Neal and Glowinski whereas now we have Runyan and either a much improved Neal or Elumenor, who is solid.
That alone is big IMO. If Thomas can stay healthy, and JMS can improve from his rookie season (not a huge stretch), this line can be quite decent actually. Runyan is going to be fine, Thomas is an all pro caliber guy when healthy, Elumenor was a 70ish PFF caliber RT under this coach last year, and JMS is a talented player who had a rough rookie year but figures to hopefully improve in year two. Left guard is a bit of a question mark but we have multiple options there, so hopefully the best (or least bad) of all of those options is good enough to not mess up the whole line.
I actually think this will be a league-average line this year.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 12:05:56 PMI often think fans somewhat overrate the importance of coaching (relative to the importance of the actual talent level on the roster), but with O line in particular I think coaching matters quite a bit. I don't know exactly how good Carmen Bricillo is or will be, but I am extremely confident that he is at least somewhat of an upgrade over Woody Johnson, and I am cautiously optimistic that he may be a very large upgrade over Woody Johnson. I'm eager to see what impact he is able to have.
Neal was a total disaster for us at RT last year as well as in his rookie year. That was a major source of the trouble (albeit far from the only one). Elumenor played at a respectable level last year at RT for Vegas, for Bricilo. I don't know if they're planning on giving Neal another shot at RT and using Elumenor as a guard, but either way I think it's safe to say that we'll have much better RT play this year. Either Neal suddenly gets much better, or Elumenor takes over. Either way, that side of the line will be a lot better than the last couple of years, where we were counting on Neal and Glowinski whereas now we have Runyan and either a much improved Neal or Elumenor, who is solid.
That alone is big IMO. If Thomas can stay healthy, and JMS can improve from his rookie season (not a huge stretch), this line can be quite decent actually. Runyan is going to be fine, Thomas is an all pro caliber guy when healthy, Elumenor was a 70ish PFF caliber RT under this coach last year, and JMS is a talented player who had a rough rookie year but figures to hopefully improve in year two. Left guard is a bit of a question mark but we have multiple options there, so hopefully the best (or least bad) of all of those options is good enough to not mess up the whole line.
I actually think this will be a league-average line this year.
You make good optimistic points; however, as fans we are hopeful that the product is good and ready. Last year I had this attitude and felt betrayed. My frustration is that most other teams have the ability to turn around their weak O lines fairly quickly; but for the Giants it is a huge puzzle!!
Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 28, 2024, 11:35:01 AMNot sure if he was exceptional, but Hernandez was at least solid as a starting guard for one of the best running offenses in the NFL last year.
Not just that but Evan Brown was a UDFA for us in 2019 that we didn't develop that just played really well for the seahawks last year and just got scooped up by said cardinals.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 12:05:56 PMI often think fans somewhat overrate the importance of coaching (relative to the importance of the actual talent level on the roster), but with O line in particular I think coaching matters quite a bit. I don't know exactly how good Carmen Bricillo is or will be, but I am extremely confident that he is at least somewhat of an upgrade over Woody Johnson, and I am cautiously optimistic that he may be a very large upgrade over Woody Johnson. I'm eager to see what impact he is able to have.
Neal was a total disaster for us at RT last year as well as in his rookie year. That was a major source of the trouble (albeit far from the only one). Elumenor played at a respectable level last year at RT for Vegas, for Bricilo. I don't know if they're planning on giving Neal another shot at RT and using Elumenor as a guard, but either way I think it's safe to say that we'll have much better RT play this year. Either Neal suddenly gets much better, or Elumenor takes over. Either way, that side of the line will be a lot better than the last couple of years, where we were counting on Neal and Glowinski whereas now we have Runyan and either a much improved Neal or Elumenor, who is solid.
That alone is big IMO. If Thomas can stay healthy, and JMS can improve from his rookie season (not a huge stretch), this line can be quite decent actually. Runyan is going to be fine, Thomas is an all pro caliber guy when healthy, Elumenor was a 70ish PFF caliber RT under this coach last year, and JMS is a talented player who had a rough rookie year but figures to hopefully improve in year two. Left guard is a bit of a question mark but we have multiple options there, so hopefully the best (or least bad) of all of those options is good enough to not mess up the whole line.
I actually think this will be a league-average line this year.
Another solid post! As of now, Elumenor is the best RT on the team. Based on age, size, and draft pedigree, if the competition is close, I'm sure Neal will get the nod at RT. If not, then Neal, Ezuada and McKethan can see who performs the best
Quote from: GloryDays on April 28, 2024, 01:19:15 PMYou make good optimistic points; however, as fans we are hopeful that the product is good and ready. Last year I had this attitude and felt betrayed. My frustration is that most other teams have the ability to turn around their weak O lines fairly quickly; but for the Giants it is a huge puzzle!!
Totally fair, and you're wise to not buy in until you actually see it happening. You're right that we've been down this road before.
For the record, I don't view this overall team as better than mediocre or fair (and they could be worse than that), but I have a hard time seeing why the line wouldn't take some sort of step forward this year assuming reasonable health. But fair enough to want to see that to actually believe it. I can't argue against that stance.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 02:29:10 PMTotally fair, and you're wise to not buy in until you actually see it happening. You're right that we've been down this road before.
For the record, I don't view this overall team as better than mediocre or fair (and they could be worse than that), but I have a hard time seeing why the line wouldn't take some sort of step forward this year assuming reasonable health. But fair enough to want to see that to actually believe it. I can't argue against that stance.
I think the hope is that you have Thomas, Runyan, JMS, Elemeunor, Neal. I think under different coaching Neal makes progress to being solid and as long as he is solid the rest of the line should actually be decent.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 28, 2024, 04:00:48 PMI think the hope is that you have Thomas, Runyan, JMS, Elemeunor, Neal. I think under different coaching Neal makes progress to being solid and as long as he is solid the rest of the line should actually be decent.
With Neal, I need to see it to remotely believe it. It's one thing to be brutal as a rookie but it's another to continue to be awful in year two and show no meaningful improvement.
I have no issue with him being given another opportunity at RT by the new coach, but I would not wait long at all to get Elumenor in there in his place if he plays like a human turnstile again.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 04:40:54 PMWith Neal, I need to see it to remotely believe it. It's one thing to be brutal as a rookie but it's another to continue to be awful in year two and show no meaningful improvement.
I have no issue with him being given another opportunity at RT by the new coach, but I would not wait long at all to get Elumenor in there in his place if he plays like a human turnstile again.
If Neal fails again, they can move Eluemunor to right tackle. I believe it was Baldinger who said "if you can't play right tackle, then you can't play guard either."The responsibilities are different but still complex. We would be asking Neal to learn a new position yikes!
Don't sleep on Aaron Stinnie. He was a solid starter at Guard for Tampa until he hurt his knee in preseason. He could play right Guard with Runyan at left Guard or they could switch the two. In the event of injury, Nelson is a decent swing tackle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 12:05:56 PMI often think fans somewhat overrate the importance of coaching (relative to the importance of the actual talent level on the roster), but with O line in particular I think coaching matters quite a bit. I don't know exactly how good Carmen Bricillo is or will be, but I am extremely confident that he is at least somewhat of an upgrade over Woody Johnson, and I am cautiously optimistic that he may be a very large upgrade over Woody Johnson. I'm eager to see what impact he is able to have.
Neal was a total disaster for us at RT last year as well as in his rookie year. That was a major source of the trouble (albeit far from the only one). Elumenor played at a respectable level last year at RT for Vegas, for Bricilo. I don't know if they're planning on giving Neal another shot at RT and using Elumenor as a guard, but either way I think it's safe to say that we'll have much better RT play this year. Either Neal suddenly gets much better, or Elumenor takes over. Either way, that side of the line will be a lot better than the last couple of years, where we were counting on Neal and Glowinski whereas now we have Runyan and either a much improved Neal or Elumenor, who is solid.
That alone is big IMO. If Thomas can stay healthy, and JMS can improve from his rookie season (not a huge stretch), this line can be quite decent actually. Runyan is going to be fine, Thomas is an all pro caliber guy when healthy, Elumenor was a 70ish PFF caliber RT under this coach last year, and JMS is a talented player who had a rough rookie year but figures to hopefully improve in year two. Left guard is a bit of a question mark but we have multiple options there, so hopefully the best (or least bad) of all of those options is good enough to not mess up the whole line.
I actually think this will be a league-average line this year.
What was league average 40 something sacks? That would just mean we cut our sacks in half in one year...by becoming.... average :scared: =))
Quote from: GloryDays on April 27, 2024, 01:50:05 PMI think this team just doesn't get it. The offense lives and dies through their line.
Just throwing bodies at it doesn't work. Other teams' leftovers is not the way to have a dominant O line.
Just look at the Steelers. Their O line was decent, check their draft!
Evan Neal is a bust, who is the RT we can rely on to stop the pressure on DJ from that edge? Are they really relying on Eluemunor or Cajuste?
Who is behind Schmitz? Even if he improves, who's backing him up, Morrissey?
This to me is weird.. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. They are ignoring to address the line effectively, like they did last year too.
We have a center going into year 2 and made 2 offseason signings that both will probably be day 1 starters and a new o-line coach
Neal is the obvious question mark
We drafted o line high the last 2 drafts and made offseason signings this year
It's not that they are ignoring the o-line but you have to build the rest of team at some point
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 28, 2024, 09:05:18 PMWhat was league average 40 something sacks? That would just mean we cut our sacks in half in one year...by becoming.... average :scared: =))
Exactly.
How are there so many people saying the Giants have ignored the O-line? Is it really just because we didn't draft Cooper Beebe or Christian Haynes in the third round (as if either of them are automatics who would solve our problems immediately). The Giants' plan this year was very clearly to make the OL the focus of their FA plan and go elsewhere in the draft. They did that. Both of their starting guards will likely be recent FA pickups.
And the most important move they may have made in the offseason was their new OL coach. If he can help develop the guys already here, that's a huge acquisition without spending a dollar of cap space or draft capital.
Just feels like they threw a lot of mediocrity at the problem. And the spotlight on Neal's struggles somewhat obscured the fact that Schmitz had a subpar, disappointing rookie year. Are we so sure he'll turn the corner?
Quote from: Gman329 on April 29, 2024, 08:30:28 AMJust feels like they threw a lot of mediocrity at the problem. And the spotlight on Neal's struggles somewhat obscured the fact that Schmitz had a subpar, disappointing rookie year. Are we so sure he'll turn the corner?
I think we're more hopeful than sure. At this point, it's all we have to look forward to. If we don't have hope, what's the point?
Quote from: Gman329 on April 29, 2024, 08:30:28 AMJust feels like they threw a lot of mediocrity at the problem. And the spotlight on Neal's struggles somewhat obscured the fact that Schmitz had a subpar, disappointing rookie year. Are we so sure he'll turn the corner?
JMS was a highly touted prospect prior to the Giants drafting him. I think it's reasonable to be optimistic in year two under the guidance of better coaching.
Quote from: todge on April 28, 2024, 08:56:55 PMIf Neal fails again, they can move Eluemunor to right tackle. I believe it was Baldinger who said "if you can't play right tackle, then you can't play guard either."The responsibilities are different but still complex. We would be asking Neal to learn a new position yikes!
Don't sleep on Aaron Stinnie. He was a solid starter at Guard for Tampa until he hurt his knee in preseason. He could play right Guard with Runyan at left Guard or they could switch the two. In the event of injury, Nelson is a decent swing tackle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have seen a couple of failed tackles perform okay at guard, including Robert Gallery, Ereck Flowers, and Andrus Peat. Neal played a season of guard in college, so it's not like he has never played there. Plus the phonebooth nature of the guard spot should minimize his weakness in terms of lack of balance and slow off the snap.
Is Neal deaf in his left ear? Could that be why he is slow off the snap?
Quote from: Gman329 on April 29, 2024, 08:30:28 AMJust feels like they threw a lot of mediocrity at the problem. And the spotlight on Neal's struggles somewhat obscured the fact that Schmitz had a subpar, disappointing rookie year. Are we so sure he'll turn the corner?
They have spent 2 #1s and a #2 on the OL. If 2 of 3 are, so far, mediocrities then it happened at the catching end, not the throwing end.
we went heavy on oline in FA. I agree we need to re-stock through every means necessary. but if the guys we took in the draft were higher than our board than a OL we were gonna reach for, i'd rather take the guys we picked. We have no first year players on the line and i think thats a good thing.
TLDR,
we have more work to do but i dont think you can say its been ignored.
Don't know if this video was ever posted or viewed by many of those of Big Blue Folk Lore but when NYG first signed Bracillo so quickly at the outset of the off-season, I binged a bunch of videos and articles on him. I just stumbled on this one recently and its probably my favorite. If half of what this Raider beat who seems to know Bracillo quite well is true we got ourselves a winner. He follows a Hall of Fame line-up of former coaches such as: Mike Solari, Hal Hunter, Columbo, Gugliemo and Booby Johnson. The bar has been so low for so long we forgot what a good OL ball coach looks like.