Big Blue Huddle

No picks through 5. Giants seem happy with what they have. Prolly want to focus on an offensive line with some level of experience across the board. Minimize potential of variability opting for reliability.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 27, 2024, 03:41:11 PMWell Feliciano just had an elite season ala 81.2 pff this year after looking just meh as a Giant in 2022.

One player, one season? How many other teams have a revolving door for offensive line coaches? PFF is a poor stat I don't value.

I'm as frustrated with the o line over the last decade as anybody, but I feel like they did do their best to address this in free agency. I was hoping for an IOL at some point and we could have grabbed Beebe instead of Nubin. We'll see how that turns out 2 times a year since the Cowboys got Beebe. I'm tired too of trying to feel hopeful about an o line that continually blows, but there's a long list of mistakes made over the past decade that got us here. At some point, we simply have to hit on the o line coach and the pieces we've brought in. No injuries would be nice too.

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 27, 2024, 02:07:46 PMAt least it's a bunch of C+ guys instead of the D- to C- group they had the bring in. I did want a Guard in the Second Round but I guess they wanted to upgrade the McKless Unit.

Ed: I wanted a guard too (in round three/four). Maybe they got "aced out" by a team slightly ahead of them... or maybe they have reason to believe Evan Neal will be much improved this year (I don't have such reason). That is the key, because Eluemunor is a very solid guard (but he can't be if he must play right tackle)... or maybe they view the situation at defensive backfield as more "dire" now that they signed two decent free-agent linemen. Bob

Quote from: sjones71 on April 28, 2024, 07:54:36 AMI'm as frustrated with the o line over the last decade as anybody, but I feel like they did do their best to address this in free agency. I was hoping for an IOL at some point and we could have grabbed Beebe instead of Nubin. We'll see how that turns out 2 times a year since the Cowboys got Beebe. I'm tired too of trying to feel hopeful about an o line that continually blows, but there's a long list of mistakes made over the past decade that got us here. At some point, we simply have to hit on the o line coach and the pieces we've brought in. No injuries would be nice too.

The Giants have not shown an ability to draft and develop rookie O-linemen so it makes sense to try and veteran free agent route

Quote from: Giant Jim on April 28, 2024, 12:17:29 AMOne player, one season? How many other teams have a revolving door for offensive line coaches? PFF is a poor stat I don't value.

I listed 1 guy yes, but you can ask a ton of guys here, there are a ton of examples of players on the line leaving and playing exceptional elsewhere that couldn't do anything here.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 28, 2024, 09:57:37 AMI listed 1 guy yes, but you can ask a ton of guys here, there are a ton of examples of players on the line leaving and playing exceptional elsewhere that couldn't do anything here.

Not sure if he was exceptional,  but Hernandez was at least solid as a starting guard for one of the best running offenses in the NFL last year. 

Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
I get #Giants fan frustrations about no OL or DL, but maybe it's time to try a new approach at OL. They've relied so heavily on rookies/young players & to no surprise we've seen a lot of mental & communication errors. Missed stunts, etc.
The 2024 OL has veteran depth. You may not know/like them, but they've played in the NFL & offer a diff level of baseline.

I often think fans somewhat overrate the importance of coaching (relative to the importance of the actual talent level on the roster), but with O line in particular I think coaching matters quite a bit. I don't know exactly how good Carmen Bricillo is or will be, but I am extremely confident that he is at least somewhat of an upgrade over Woody Johnson, and I am cautiously optimistic that he may be a very large upgrade over Woody Johnson. I'm eager to see what impact he is able to have.

Neal was a total disaster for us at RT last year as well as in his rookie year. That was a major source of the trouble (albeit far from the only one). Elumenor played at a respectable level last year at RT for Vegas, for Bricilo. I don't know if they're planning on giving Neal another shot at RT and using Elumenor as a guard, but either way I think it's safe to say that we'll have much better RT play this year. Either Neal suddenly gets much better, or Elumenor takes over. Either way, that side of the line will be a lot better than the last couple of years, where we were counting on Neal and Glowinski whereas now we have Runyan and either a much improved Neal or Elumenor, who is solid.

That alone is big IMO. If Thomas can stay healthy, and JMS can improve from his rookie season (not a huge stretch), this line can be quite decent actually. Runyan is going to be fine, Thomas is an all pro caliber guy when healthy, Elumenor was a 70ish PFF caliber RT under this coach last year, and JMS is a talented player who had a rough rookie year but figures to hopefully improve in year two. Left guard is a bit of a question mark but we have multiple options there, so hopefully the best (or least bad) of all of those options is good enough to not mess up the whole line.

I actually think this will be a league-average line this year.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 12:05:56 PMI often think fans somewhat overrate the importance of coaching (relative to the importance of the actual talent level on the roster), but with O line in particular I think coaching matters quite a bit. I don't know exactly how good Carmen Bricillo is or will be, but I am extremely confident that he is at least somewhat of an upgrade over Woody Johnson, and I am cautiously optimistic that he may be a very large upgrade over Woody Johnson. I'm eager to see what impact he is able to have.

Neal was a total disaster for us at RT last year as well as in his rookie year. That was a major source of the trouble (albeit far from the only one). Elumenor played at a respectable level last year at RT for Vegas, for Bricilo. I don't know if they're planning on giving Neal another shot at RT and using Elumenor as a guard, but either way I think it's safe to say that we'll have much better RT play this year. Either Neal suddenly gets much better, or Elumenor takes over. Either way, that side of the line will be a lot better than the last couple of years, where we were counting on Neal and Glowinski whereas now we have Runyan and either a much improved Neal or Elumenor, who is solid.

That alone is big IMO. If Thomas can stay healthy, and JMS can improve from his rookie season (not a huge stretch), this line can be quite decent actually. Runyan is going to be fine, Thomas is an all pro caliber guy when healthy, Elumenor was a 70ish PFF caliber RT under this coach last year, and JMS is a talented player who had a rough rookie year but figures to hopefully improve in year two. Left guard is a bit of a question mark but we have multiple options there, so hopefully the best (or least bad) of all of those options is good enough to not mess up the whole line.

I actually think this will be a league-average line this year.

You make good optimistic points; however, as fans we are hopeful that the product is good and ready. Last year I had this attitude and felt betrayed. My frustration is that most other teams have the ability to turn around their weak O lines fairly quickly; but for the Giants it is a huge puzzle!!

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 28, 2024, 11:35:01 AMNot sure if he was exceptional,  but Hernandez was at least solid as a starting guard for one of the best running offenses in the NFL last year. 

Not just that but Evan Brown was a UDFA for us in 2019 that we didn't develop that just played really well for the seahawks last year and just got scooped up by said cardinals.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 12:05:56 PMI often think fans somewhat overrate the importance of coaching (relative to the importance of the actual talent level on the roster), but with O line in particular I think coaching matters quite a bit. I don't know exactly how good Carmen Bricillo is or will be, but I am extremely confident that he is at least somewhat of an upgrade over Woody Johnson, and I am cautiously optimistic that he may be a very large upgrade over Woody Johnson. I'm eager to see what impact he is able to have.

Neal was a total disaster for us at RT last year as well as in his rookie year. That was a major source of the trouble (albeit far from the only one). Elumenor played at a respectable level last year at RT for Vegas, for Bricilo. I don't know if they're planning on giving Neal another shot at RT and using Elumenor as a guard, but either way I think it's safe to say that we'll have much better RT play this year. Either Neal suddenly gets much better, or Elumenor takes over. Either way, that side of the line will be a lot better than the last couple of years, where we were counting on Neal and Glowinski whereas now we have Runyan and either a much improved Neal or Elumenor, who is solid.

That alone is big IMO. If Thomas can stay healthy, and JMS can improve from his rookie season (not a huge stretch), this line can be quite decent actually. Runyan is going to be fine, Thomas is an all pro caliber guy when healthy, Elumenor was a 70ish PFF caliber RT under this coach last year, and JMS is a talented player who had a rough rookie year but figures to hopefully improve in year two. Left guard is a bit of a question mark but we have multiple options there, so hopefully the best (or least bad) of all of those options is good enough to not mess up the whole line.

I actually think this will be a league-average line this year.

Another solid post!  As of now,  Elumenor is the best RT on the team. Based on age, size, and draft pedigree, if the competition is close, I'm sure Neal will get the nod at RT. If not, then Neal, Ezuada and McKethan can see who performs the best

Quote from: GloryDays on April 28, 2024, 01:19:15 PMYou make good optimistic points; however, as fans we are hopeful that the product is good and ready. Last year I had this attitude and felt betrayed. My frustration is that most other teams have the ability to turn around their weak O lines fairly quickly; but for the Giants it is a huge puzzle!!

Totally fair, and you're wise to not buy in until you actually see it happening. You're right that we've been down this road before.

For the record, I don't view this overall team as better than mediocre or fair (and they could be worse than that), but I have a hard time seeing why the line wouldn't take some sort of step forward this year assuming reasonable health. But fair enough to want to see that to actually believe it. I can't argue against that stance.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 02:29:10 PMTotally fair, and you're wise to not buy in until you actually see it happening. You're right that we've been down this road before.

For the record, I don't view this overall team as better than mediocre or fair (and they could be worse than that), but I have a hard time seeing why the line wouldn't take some sort of step forward this year assuming reasonable health. But fair enough to want to see that to actually believe it. I can't argue against that stance.

I think the hope is that you have Thomas, Runyan, JMS, Elemeunor, Neal. I think under different coaching Neal makes progress to being solid and as long as he is solid the rest of the line should actually be decent.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 28, 2024, 04:00:48 PMI think the hope is that you have Thomas, Runyan, JMS, Elemeunor, Neal. I think under different coaching Neal makes progress to being solid and as long as he is solid the rest of the line should actually be decent.

With Neal, I need to see it to remotely believe it. It's one thing to be brutal as a rookie but it's another to continue to be awful in year two and show no meaningful improvement.

I have no issue with him being given another opportunity at RT by the new coach, but I would not wait long at all to get Elumenor in there in his place if he plays like a human turnstile again.