Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 23, 2022, 12:33:35 PMThat's the problem right there, I don't think Jones is a superstar but I don't think he's garbage either. I think he's ok but not for 20 or 30 million a year. Tannehill got a 4yr 118 million and because of that aav of 29 million a year coupled with Henry's contract, those two single handedly handicapped the Titans. We got Adoree because of that, and the Eagles got AJ Brown, they lost most of their home grown talent on defense and offense because of a contract for a great RB and decent QB.

Can 2 people single handedly do something?  LOL

Just teasing.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 23, 2022, 11:40:03 AMThe other teams will ONLY come into play IF the Giants let him test the market.

Otherwise if you believe the rules no other team or their representatives can speak to DJ or his agent and manipulate that price.

Personally I don't believe teams follow this rule!

Unless the Giants offer him the kind of big money contract that would cause heads to explode around here I think he'd be foolish not test the FA market and see what is out there.  But there we go talking about money again.    

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 23, 2022, 11:21:33 AMThere is only one opinion that matters!

That's the Giants specifically JS!

Everyone else is just flapping gums including us.

Everyone has a right to their opinion!  It's when people think their opinions actually matter more then others that there is an issue.

JS and the GMs of the several teams looking for a QB.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 23, 2022, 11:11:30 AMI'm not trying to help or hurt anything, he made a comment, I agree hes just a guy, that's where it ends lol

If anyone thinks otherwise that is perfectly fine.

Despite having been a great player, I've never looked at him as being any kind of football mind.  Not nearly as good a football mind as his brother.  IOW, when it comes to football knowledge his is JAG.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 23, 2022, 10:58:24 AMOutside of having similar personalities, being white and physically the same size Eli and Daniel Jones are nothing a like in their games.

Leadership, toughness, an inability to perform well when the offense is trash, ability to flash in 4th quarter situations.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 23, 2022, 10:24:45 AMAnyone who posts one side of a discussion or argument is biased. No matter how they justify in their heads. With the exception of a few people like Tim, DB, Slugger who are more open minded. If you haven't noticed, I've posted both positive and negative about this QB. Usually to just balance the discussion.

I feel like I'm in a strange position here as I simultaneously believe that:

A) he is seriously under-rated here - with an average NFL-quality OL and a decent set of NFL-quality WRs (not 'elites at every position' as some have tried to frame it) I think he can be a top ten QB in the league.  If you look at it like horse-racing where they handicap the horses, he is currently carrying some of the highest weights in the field - and will do considerably better when he only has to carry average weight.

B) the best thing the Giants can do is let him (and Barkley) go so they have fully freed up resources to focus on attacking their many holes, solidifying the holes in a promising defense and adding quality in an offense, and to continue the horse analogy, reducing the handicap weight so the next guy gets a fair shot at developing during his rookie contract, something DJ's never had.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 23, 2022, 08:22:51 AMhttps://twitter.com/ShannonSharpe/status/1595928496496574464

I'm not sure whether citing Shannon Sharpe helps or hurts your case, LOL.

Quote from: GMenRF on December 23, 2022, 07:22:41 AMThat number is always skewed since DJ can scramble to buy more time and not to mention the amount of playactions we run especially earlier in the season.

Exactly.  Ignoring how his his scrambling affects his time to throw still comes up.  But if he spends a lot of the 5 second average running for his life it is hardly the same as sitting in a nice clean pocket surveying the field for 5 seconds.  And the idea that there are metrics that counter the notion that a 40% increase in sacks is an indication that pass pro got worse doesn't pass my smell test.  It seems like an excuse for the O-line, to me.

But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion - I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.  In the end this will all be determined by football people when we see what the Giants and other teams think in cold hard cash, and then his how his future performance goes.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 22, 2022, 08:32:26 PMBy what standard?   The metrics says it's better than last year.  Did you see the post from Ed a few weeks ago? 

Last year they averaged giving up 2.2 sacks per game.  This year they have been averaging 3.1 sacks per game, more than a 40% increase.  In the face of these facts I would not give credence to any metric that says their pass pro has even stayed the same, let anyone improved.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 22, 2022, 05:19:27 PMPersonnel has changed on both the WR and O-Line units.  Play caller has also changed.......

I wonder what hasn't changed? 

The lack of quality of both groups.  Although they did really change, the O-line clearly got worse in pass pro, and the WRs declined largely due to injury.

I know where you want to take this, but you have to deal with these facts. The personnel may have changed in these units, but is a very hard case to make that change meant improvement.  Impossible, in the case of the pass pro.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 22, 2022, 05:21:54 PMLast year there was also a lot of talk about how Jones didn't have a running game to lean on (as Barkley was bad last year). This year not only did we get rid of Jason Garrett and replace him with Daboll/Kafka, but Barkley is the Pro Bowl starter now. And yet the passing numbers still are not materially different from past years.

Well, the pass pro DID get a lot worse, so there's that.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 22, 2022, 05:11:23 PMOk, so again middle of the road QB.  Which is fine.  It's not a $25-$30+ AAV QB.

What we do know that with this QB, OL and WR's the Giants have one of the least productive passing offenses in football.  I don't think adding a #1 Playmaking WR will make as big of a difference as others do.  For me the screaming about the WR's is what the fire Jason Garrett upgrade the offensive line was a year ago.  Yet here we are having a similar discussion.

We are having the same discussion because the Oline pass blocking has seriously declined since last year and the WRs have gone backwards since last year.  There is a limit to how much coaching can affect units that have a serious lack of quality.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 22, 2022, 04:25:29 PMYou'd have to do that with every QB in the league and when you do that with the number of athletic QBs in the league I don't think it helps Jones in that regard with where he ranks when you combine the passing and rushing yards for QBs.  I could be wrong but don't think it does.

He's 16th in passing yards and 13th in passing and rushing yards combined.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 22, 2022, 03:17:02 PMI thought of those stats when I saw this Tweet

https://twitter.com/SteveV_NFL/status/1606010013310394368

Here's a crazy stat.  Fields has had 15 fumbles, most in the league.  But he has only lost 1.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 22, 2022, 09:41:50 AMMurray has had better skill players to throw to I believe!

OLINE probably equal to ours maybe slightly better but not by much.

Not that is the be-all and end-all of pass pro evaluation, but AZ is just above the Giants, giving up 2.9 sacks per game compared to 3.1 for the Giants.  And our guys have done a better job in run blocking at 4.6 YPC compared to AZ's 4.3.