Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 23, 2022, 09:03:58 AM   

I'll fill in for ya!!! 🤣🤣

 

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 23, 2022, 09:06:54 AMThis 100%, if DJ stays, I won't like it, but I will hope for the best, and hope I am wrong. In that scenario hopefully it isn't a contract that screws them for many years like what Denver is dealing with.

I'm not opposed to Jones coming back on a reasonable 1-2 year deal provided that there isn't a QB this regime loves in the draft.  What I oppose is a large long term deal for Jones.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 23, 2022, 09:06:54 AMThis 100%, if DJ stays, I won't like it, but I will hope for the best, and hope I am wrong. In that scenario hopefully it isn't a contract that screws them for many years like what Denver is dealing with.

JS seems frugal!

I don't see him spending like a drunken sailor on leave!

Whoever he signs this offseason at any position, I think is a fair and reasonable contract for their position and ability.

Look at the Bills roster and contracts.  That's his foundation.  It makes sense to look how that team is built and compare.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 23, 2022, 09:10:55 AMJS seems frugal!

I don't see him spending like a drunken sailor on leave!

Whoever he signs this offseason at any position, I think is a fair and reasonable contract for their position and ability.

Look at the Bills roster and contracts.  That's his foundation.  It makes sense to look how that team is built and compare.

I still have this fear in the back of my head that John Mara will once again step in and force Schoen's hand.  Sure it is probably unlikely but I still don't trust Mara.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 23, 2022, 09:18:48 AMI still have this fear in the back of my head that John Mara will once again step in and force Schoen's hand.  Sure it is probably unlikely but I still don't trust Mara.

It's a fear cause he has meddled for years.

We need to keep fingers crossed that is behind us.

Here are some stats from todays article

"Jones has career-bests in completion percentage (66.0) and passer rating (90.5). His on-target throw percentage of 80.5 and bad throw percentage of just 12.5 are also the best of his career. He also had 6.6 percent of his passes dropped, the worst percentage of his career and an indication of the lack of help he has received at times."

"Jones has also run for a career-high 583 yards, with his running ability emerging as a major weapon for the Giants' offense."

"Jones has thrown just four interceptions this season, fewest of any NFL starting quarterback. His interception percentage of 1.0 is a career- and league-best. He has also fumbled a career-low five times despite carrying the ball 105 times (his previous career high in carries was 65) and being sacked a career-worst 9.2 percent of the time when he attempts to pass."

"The lack of fumbles is particularly impressive. He has now fumbled only 12 times in his last 25 games. Combine Jones' carries and sacks, the times he would possibly fumble, and he is averaging one fumble every 29.2 times he is hit. Over his first two seasons he fumbled 29 times on 193 combined carries and sacks, an average of once every 6.7 times."

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 23, 2022, 08:51:30 AMI don't view him as an expert on things, he is more entertaining to me than anything.

Sure, it summarizes my views on him in a short sentence rather than the constant back and forth. Do you not also post things that align with your views and opinions as well?

I think JAG perfectly describes what Daniel is, not good, not bad, just somewhere in the middle, you can do better, and you can also do worse. He can maybe keep a ship from sinking, but he isn't gonna steer it to the promised land either.

To answer your question.  I strive to post quality content.  I try to find sources that I consider experts.  I strive to post things from both sides of quality content can be found on both sides.  I have posted many things negative about Jones over his years with the Giants.  Although lately, finding quality content that is negative about Jones is a pretty challenging task.  So to answer the subtext of your question, I don't curate the material I post based on how it aligns with my views and opinions.

Of course, another reason that my views tend to match what I post is I tend to listen to expert opinions.  I consider their arguments and points; I consider the soundness of their arguments as well as their credentials.  If that all checks out, I will often adopt those points of view.

Maybe it's just me, but my goal isn't to be right; it's to get it right (as the former Giants scout Greg Gabriel likes to say).   

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 23, 2022, 08:54:23 AMAt the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or doesn't thinks.

These beat writers have zero influence if he stays or goes. JS & Dabs will decide that, the reports both for and against, are in no place to determine how likely something is to happen. The ones that are, will make that call, within the next couple of months. They don't care what side of it we are all on, they are on the side they are and will act accordingly. Some of us will like it, some of us won't, we will see what is what soon enough.

I think it's sort of stating the obvious that beat writers lack influence over the team.   I mean, in all my decades as a Giants fan, I only witnessed the media truly impacting the team, once.   They helped whip up the fan frenzy over Eli Manning being benched for Geno Smith.  That frenzy convinced Mara to fire Reese and McAdoo before the season was out and hire a GM who was willing to try and rebuild the team around Eli for one more run.

While the media doesn't really hold sway over the team, it's not to say their reports lack value.  One thing the media enjoy over us, the fans, is better access to the team.   They get to talk to players and members of the organization on and off the record.  So beat writers generally have a better take on the "pulse of the team" than others.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 09:29:34 AMTo answer your question.  I strive to post quality content.  I try to find sources that I consider experts.  I strive to post things from both sides of quality content can be found on both sides.  I have posted many things negative about Jones over his years with the Giants.  Although lately, finding quality content that is negative about Jones is a pretty challenging task.  So to answer the subtext of your question, I don't curate the material I post based on how it aligns with my views and opinions.

Of course, another reason that my views tend to match what I post is I tend to listen to expert opinions.  I consider their arguments and points; I consider the soundness of their arguments as well as their credentials.  If that all checks out, I will often adopt those points of view.

Maybe it's just me, but my goal isn't to be right; it's to get it right (as the former Giants scout Greg Gabriel likes to say).   

 

Definitely just you, because it sure seems you are gung ho on trying to prove anyone not in favor of Jones to be wrong. Or was I imagining the thread where you literally said we were all wrong for disagreeing with the posts you shared, or every other post after trying to prove us wrong or change our minds? If I dreamt all that I apologize

I am sure you would say we do the same, although that is not true at all. We just want someone that can take us to the next level, yet the picture gets painted like we think hes a mobile Jamarcus Russel or something. No one has said he is terrible, but that is what people want to think or assume, which we all know what happens when one does that.

Anyone who posts one side of a discussion or argument is biased. No matter how they justify in their heads. With the exception of a few people like Tim, DB, Slugger who are more open minded. If you haven't noticed, I've posted both positive and negative about this QB. Usually to just balance the discussion.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 08:44:24 AMI am curious, did you post this because you consider Shannon Sharpe an expert on football and you respect his views and opinions or did you post it because his opinions match your own?

Shannon Sharpe as many know is a 'shock jock' and those ESPN boys LOVE stirring the NY pot. That opinion means quite little. I'll take the multitude of more trustworthy analysts and guys that watch this team a ton more closely than what is quite likely a shock jock peripheral opinion.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 23, 2022, 10:00:40 AM

Definitely just you, because it sure seems you are gung ho on trying to prove anyone not in favor of Jones to be wrong. Or was I imagining the thread where you literally said we were all wrong for disagreeing with the posts you shared, or every other post after trying to prove us wrong or change our minds? If I dreamt all that I apologize

I am sure you would say we do the same, although that is not true at all. We just want someone that can take us to the next level, yet the picture gets painted like we think hes a mobile Jamarcus Russel or something. No one has said he is terrible, but that is what people want to think or assume, which we all know what happens when one does that.

TBF,

I think the issue is more of your strong desire to prove yourself right.  You guys seem so driven by that, that your views of what happens are greatly skewed.  That strong desire has created situations where you do exactly what you admit to, posting things that agree with your opinion.  That sort of approach rarely leads to good or correct outcomes.

There is a perfect example on this thread.  The two Youtube videos were posted and were created by random dudes.  One was pro-Jones and called out haters, and the other was anti-Jones and called his supporters a cult (or something similar).  The pro-Jones video was ignored by all of you guys, you couldn't be bothered.  The anti-Jones video got all sorts of love and support from the Jones critics.  Objectively, the two videos were identical in terms of the quality and expertise of the source material.  Yet it wasn't hard to see how differently the critics viewed the material.  You will notice I did not like the Pro-Jones video because it failed my criteria for quality material.

That is hardly an isolated issue.  Because you guys are so driven, there are often flawed approaches to trying to prove your correctness.  Can you really blame me for pointing out obvious flaws?

That all said, I don't think my statements should be applied as blanket statements toward or describing those critical of Daniel Jones.  I am posting a thread by Ed Vette.  He has made it clear, over the last couple of seasons that he isn't a Jones supporter.  Yet, he clearly is open-minded and willing to adjust his views as more is learned.  This post of his is one of the best I have seen (especially on this topic) in quite some time

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 21, 2022, 11:04:11 AMIt's really not luck. They have to have an eye for QB evaluation and they have to do their due diligence. Take the highly touted draft of Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Jackson. It was very clear what was there. Mayfield short with character/maturity issues. Rosen work ethic/leadership issues. Darnold wildly erratic with poor decision making, Allen cannon arm, mobile but poor mechanics on a bad team. Jackson, weak arm but extremely mobile and a fit for the right offense.

I was never a fan of Murray and the entire draft class looked weak. Still Jones was the at or near the top of that class and it was evident in that last bowl game. Quite frankly if he was in most other teams he wouldn't have gotten this far. Most QB never get nurtured and properly developed and teams give up on them. Mara was in love with this kid. He was the next Eli Manning. Looked the part and played the part.

Sometimes a QB has strong character strengths and is resilient like Geno Smith who was dealt a xxxx hand. It was obvious to me the game he came in for Eli that this kid had game. Wrong place, wrong time and wrong organization (and I'll leave it at that).

I have to say that I'm not sold on Jones as a long term solution but I am very impressed with how he has worked through his challenges and weaknesses and this team can do a hell of a lot worse. He still has processing issues and the alarm factor comes in on pressure and his peripheral vision may be a liability but this kid has resilience and a strong desire to succeed. And I wouldn't bet against that, especially with an organization who completely and wholeheartedly supports him. A man like that has a higher ceiling than I or anyone else gives him credit for.

Now consider your reaction to my post about what the beat writers are saying.  Instead of acknowledging the access they have to the team (which allows for better insights), you talked about how beat writers don't decide who stays or goes.  From my vantage point, that does not sound like you are willing to entertain information that doesn't fit your existing point of view.

Here's the thing, in a few months' time, we will all learn if Jones is staying or going.  Regardless of the outcome, I will neither be right nor wrong.  For me, it will mean the biggest piece of the puzzle has been revealed (what Schoen and Dabble feel about Jones), and that's all that matters.  I will support whatever decision is made because, at this point I have no reason not to trust the judgment of both men (appreciating they know more than we do both about football and the situation).

If Jones stays I will be happy because I support the players on the team, and if Jones is the answer it means a quicker path to relevance.  If Jones goes I will be fine because clearly Daboll and Schoen don't see him as the answer and it's better to pull that bandaid off fast.  Nothing to be gained from keeping a guy around you don't think will help you achieve the success you seek.

Heck, they could keep him short-term just because they don't see a path to a proper upgrade this offseason, but long term they do intend to replace him.  No matter the path I am fine with it and I will neither be right nor will I be wrong.  I will simply be a fan hoping for the best

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 23, 2022, 12:29:13 AMAnd when he gets better receivers (not guys we as fans have to work hard to come up with stats to make them look like they are somehow high end receivers) he will likely make the jump up in passing stats much like Josh Allen, Tua, Hurts, Lawrence all did.

Jones is nowhere in those guys league. It's just fictional at this point.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 23, 2022, 10:45:17 AMJones is nowhere in those guys league. It's just fictional at this point.

Many argued Eli was nowhere in the league of his brother and a bunch of other QBs. Yet he won 2 SuperBowls. Just sayin'

And Eli had a different stratoshpere of quality that Reese afforded him throughout his career at WR and TE.

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 23, 2022, 10:51:40 AMMany argued Eli was nowhere in the league of his brother and a bunch of other QBs. Yet he won 2 SuperBowls. Just sayin'

And Eli had a different stratoshpere of quality that Reese afforded him throughout his career at WR and TE.

Outside of having similar personalities, being white and physically the same size Eli and Daniel Jones are nothing a like in their games.