https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1745911158991671377?s=20
https://x.com/nickfalato/status/1745910137158590642?s=20
The #Giants are interviewing #Titans DC Shane Bowen
He was the Titans DC for the last three years and was their OLB coach since 2018
Here is the Titans sack rankings over those years:
2023: 17th (45)*
2022: 20th (39)*
2021: 10th (43)*
2020: 30th (19)
2019: 13th (43)
2018: 17th (39)
*as Defensive Coordiantor
Ryan Cowden - Giants' current executive advisor to GM - has worked with Bowen in Tennessee since 2018. Connection there, but Daboll has not worked with him in the past.
https://x.com/ukgiantsfan1/status/1745911158811640137?s=20
How do you all feel about the DC choice? A position coach up and coming that may need a learning curve, an experienced one who came from a decent or bad defense or a veteran like Jim Schwartz who's unavailable but we missed out on a year or so ago? A fired HC?
I think I want a proven entity.
I followed many Titans games the last two years and that defense was victimized by chunk plays and late game collapses.
His roster on D declined or was chronically hurt in key areas..but he didn't stand out to me
Titans had a decent run D but were prone to giving up big pass plays when their pass rush did not get home. Injures did not help. A mid-range D. The key is determining whether he had them playing above or below their talent and that is one their fans would know better than me.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 12, 2024, 04:36:27 PMHow do you all feel about the DC choice? A position coach up and coming that may need a learning curve, an experienced one who came from a decent or bad defense or a veteran like Jim Schwartz who's unavailable but we missed out on a year or so ago? A fired HC?
I think I want a proven entity.
I'm not too concerned about their history so long as it wasn't one that featured a lot of failure.
I want someone who isn't stuck in his ways, is adaptable, and can make in-game adjustments. He needs to be able to key in on his players' strengths and hide their weaknesses.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 12, 2024, 04:36:27 PMHow do you all feel about the DC choice? A position coach up and coming that may need a learning curve, an experienced one who came from a decent or bad defense or a veteran like Jim Schwartz who's unavailable but we missed out on a year or so ago? A fired HC?
I think I want a proven entity.
https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1746181077381591440?s=20
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 13, 2024, 09:46:07 AMhttps://x.com/clt_ny/status/1746181077381591440?s=20
My concern too.
I feel like with OCs, teams are always looking for the latest young whiz kid. With DCs, you've seen a lot of teams have a lot of success going with re-tread types. Look at the Browns this year with Schwartz. I remember McVay had plenty of defensive success with Wade Wilson. Spags is another example. Fangio has had some success in Miami. Quinn had a good run in Dallas. Many failed head coaches who were good defensive coordinators come back as DCs again and have a lot of success that way. Dick LeBeau another example.
The other nice thing about hiring someone with that profile is you don't have to worry as much about them leaving if they have success. Unless someone wants to offer them another head coaching gig, which only happens occasionally with failed head coaches, they're unlikely to leave you if they're having success with you.
With all the young guys the Giants have, I wouldn't mind getting someone whom they think is not likely to get poached away as a HC in 2-3 years if he has success with us. I wouldn't be closed to that obviously, because I'll frankly take anyone who is going to be successful, but it would be nice to get a guy in there who can be there for more like 4-5 years (or longer) and really build this defense and establish continuity.
I will offer up what I am hoping for:
1) I find the argument for an experienced DC compelling and so it's on my want list
2) I want a DC who runs a 3-4
3) I want a DC who doesn't favor zone coverage too strongly as this team was built with M2M in mind
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 13, 2024, 09:56:23 AMI will offer up what I am hoping for:
1) I find the argument for an experienced DC compelling and so it's on my want list
2) I want a DC who runs a 3-4
3) I want a DC who doesn't favor zone coverage too strongly as this team was built with M2M in mind
PFF has a breakdown by player of man and zone coverage grades as I recall. I'm curious how Adoree, Banks and Hawkins break down.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 13, 2024, 09:56:23 AMI will offer up what I am hoping for:
1) I find the argument for an experienced DC compelling and so it's on my want list
2) I want a DC who runs a 3-4
3) I want a DC who doesn't favor zone coverage too strongly as this team was built with M2M in mind
Mckinney, Banks, Pinnock and most of our Dbs outside Flott do better in zone do they not?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 13, 2024, 10:36:38 AMPFF has a breakdown by player of man and zone coverage grades as I recall. I'm curious how Adoree, Banks and Hawkins break down.
All of Banks picks this season came in zone. Mckinney thrived in zone vs man as well.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 13, 2024, 10:41:58 AMAll of Banks picks this season came in zone. Mckinney thrived in zone vs man as well.
That's after Daboll coached Winky. Can't intercept the ball trailing the Receivers with your back to the QB. Also more Cover 2 and Quarters helped the Safeties make plays. Bringing the house mentality far too often was idiotic.
IMHO they're overthinking this. Just promote Andre Patterson. He was a head coach in college, a co-dc in the NFL, he knows the scheme and the players. It is the least disruptive move and by all accounts the guys on defense love him.
Quote from: madbadger on January 13, 2024, 10:54:46 AMIMHO they're overthinking this. Just promote Andre Patterson. He was a head coach in college, a co-dc in the NFL, he knows the scheme and the players. It is the least disruptive move and by all accounts the guys on defense love him.
He's been a Defensive Line Coach for something like 18 years. Why hasn't any team given him a shot at DC?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 13, 2024, 11:01:13 AMHe's been a Defensive Line Coach for something like 18 years. Why hasn't any team given him a shot at DC?
He was the Vikings defensive line coach and co defensive coordinator for several years.
Quote from: madbadger on January 13, 2024, 11:23:49 AMHe was the Vikings defensive line coach and co defensive coordinator for several years.
Did he call the Defensive Plays?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 13, 2024, 11:29:56 AMDid he call the Defensive Plays?
No
If they give it to someone on the staff it will probably be Henderson but I still think they are waiting for Leslie Frazier. After the Wink debacle Daboll will ideally want a known and trusted colleague.
Quote from: londonblue on January 13, 2024, 11:50:18 AMNo
If they give it to someone on the staff it will probably be Henderson but I still think they are waiting for Leslie Frazier. After the Wink debacle Daboll will ideally want a known and trusted colleague.
Not saying you're wrong but the other co-defensive coordinator was Mike Zimmer's alcoholic son. Not that it really matters because every coordinator in league history was a first time coordinator calling plays for the first time. So what?
Quote from: londonblue on January 13, 2024, 11:50:18 AMNo
If they give it to someone on the staff it will probably be Henderson but I still think they are waiting for Leslie Frazier. After the Wink debacle Daboll will ideally want a known and trusted colleague.
Do you think the Chargers are bringing him in as their Roony interview?
Vic Fangio is who I wanted instead of Martindale. That ship sailed as he is in Miami now. Now I want Frazier or Dennard Wilson.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 13, 2024, 10:36:38 AMPFF has a breakdown by player of man and zone coverage grades as I recall. I'm curious how Adoree, Banks and Hawkins break down.
I have family obligations today, but I will try to get to it tomorrow
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 13, 2024, 10:36:38 AMPFF has a breakdown by player of man and zone coverage grades as I recall. I'm curious how Adoree, Banks and Hawkins break down.
Interesting, most of the DBs had better zone grades than M2M.
(https://i.imgur.com/zvqK0cU.png)
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2024, 07:18:07 AMInteresting, most of the DBs had better zone grades than M2M.
(https://i.imgur.com/zvqK0cU.png)
I suspected. Thanks Rich.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 13, 2024, 02:22:04 PMI have family obligations today, but I will try to get to it tomorrow
The breakdown was about 50-50. Can you isolate it by games? For instance the first half vs second half of the season? Or a couple of bad games vs good games for the Defense?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 14, 2024, 07:29:36 AMThe breakdown was about 50-50. Can you isolate it by games? For instance the first half vs second half of the season? Or a couple of bad games vs good games for the Defense?
These stats are by position rather than by player or by team. So I don't believe they have a game-by-game breakdown option.
I think you have to throw out the 1st half of last year as there was no complimentary football
Our offense was offensive and the D was on the field all game, Jamie was punting his leg off. The modern NFL rules make such game practically indefensible, with the tired D on the field all day long
When Jones returns we will see a resumption of this disasterous phenomena
I see choppy waters ahead. Another 6 win season and Schoen and Daboll may be walking the plank. Mike Vrabel will be coaching elsewhere. Perhaps the Commanders.
Given that senario, will Mara again turn to the Belichick tree? Sorry for the pessimistic outlook but that's what I see likely happening. The Giants are nothing if not stubborn.
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 14, 2024, 07:49:00 AMI think you have to throw out the 1st half of last year as there was no complimentary football
Our offense was offensive and the D was on the field all game, Jamie was punting his leg off. The modern NFL rules make such game practically indefensible, with the tired D on the field all day long
When Jones returns we will see a resumption of this disasterous phenomena
I see choppy waters ahead. Another 6 win season and Schoen and Daboll may be walking the plank. Mike Vrabel will be coaching elsewhere. Perhaps the Commanders.
Given that senario, will Mara again turn to the Belichick tree? Sorry for the pessimistic outlook but that's what I see likely happening. The Giants are nothing if not stubborn.
Who said Jones is returning, there are a lot of assumptions in that statement.
Dabs seems to prefer coaches he knows from working together. I hope he casts a wide net and remains open minded.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 14, 2024, 10:11:40 AMDabs seems to prefer coaches he knows from working together. I hope he casts a wide net and remains open minded.
Dabs hadn't worked together with either WInk or Kafka. Daboll was even praised for his more open approach in terms of building his coaching roster. However, now, people are pointing to that same process as a contribution to the coaching friction as they didn't have previous relationships and the ability to handle adversity together.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 14, 2024, 09:56:41 AMWho said Jones is returning, there are a lot of assumptions in that statement.
There are $67 million reasons why Jones is returning.
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 14, 2024, 07:49:00 AMI think you have to throw out the 1st half of last year as there was no complimentary football
Our offense was offensive and the D was on the field all game, Jamie was punting his leg off. The modern NFL rules make such game practically indefensible, with the tired D on the field all day long
When Jones returns we will see a resumption of this disasterous phenomena
I see choppy waters ahead. Another 6 win season and Schoen and Daboll may be walking the plank. Mike Vrabel will be coaching elsewhere. Perhaps the Commanders.
Given that senario, will Mara again turn to the Belichick tree? Sorry for the pessimistic outlook but that's what I see likely happening. The Giants are nothing if not stubborn.
One of the reasons u have to throw out the 1st half of the season is because Dan's runs a spa camp. The team is not ready on week one and they CERTAINLY are not in football game shape - hence the soft tissue injuries.
I hope he changes his philosophy on camp. Let me hit each other and go in pads more
Quote from: TDToomer on January 14, 2024, 12:31:49 PMThere are $67 million reasons why Jones is returning.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 14, 2024, 12:31:49 PMThere are $67 million reasons why Jones is returning.
I'm very aware of that as we've all been saying hes going to be on the team but if you read his post, he thinks Jones is starting which is why I asked him why he thinks Jones is automatically returning to start next season when Schoen and Daboll have said they were going to address the QB position in FA/Draft.
Quote from: Trench on January 14, 2024, 12:41:03 PMOne of the reasons u have to throw out the 1st half of the season is because Dan's runs a spa camp. The team is not ready on week one and they CERTAINLY are not in football game shape - hence the soft tissue injuries.
I hope he changes his philosophy on camp. Let me hit each other and go in pads more
Strange though that Daboll's first season was kind of the opposite. Team started out 6-1 and then went 3-6-1 after that. You'd think if he ran spa camp they would have been at their best later, not earlier.
Why is everything upside down with this team?
Our weakest position is where we spent a 7th pick in the first round!
They give up leads at the very end of games, some miraculously (jets)
The defense was our strength, the offense our downfall. We lose our defense coach but our offensive coordinator and playcaller is staying!!!!
Quote from: GloryDays on January 14, 2024, 02:07:41 PMWhy is everything upside down with this team?
Our weakest position is where we spent a 7th pick in the first round!
They give up leads at the very end of games, some miraculously (jets)
The defense was our strength, the offense our downfall. We lose our defense coach but our offensive coordinator and playcaller is staying!!!!
The Offense finished 29th
The Defense finished 27th
It's just not accurate to call either side a "strength".
Quote from: TDToomer on January 14, 2024, 03:38:26 PMThe Offense finished 29th
The Defense finished 27th
It's just not accurate to call either side a "strength".
Well, you see, the offense caused the defense to give up 4.7 YPC on the ground, 31st in the league. And the defense's inability to stop time consuming running plays had nothing to do with the Giants being slightly below par on TOP, don't cha know. /sarcasm/
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 14, 2024, 01:05:25 PMStrange though that Daboll's first season was kind of the opposite. Team started out 6-1 and then went 3-6-1 after that. You'd think if he ran spa camp they would have been at their best later, not earlier.
To be honest some of our wins let season early on were pretty lucky and we got the benefit of calls.
I will say however the game where he went for 2 at the end to win it (maybe game one or 2??) was my favorite part of the season. Dabol did not coach the same way early this season. I am still scratching my head asking where did that gutsy fella go?
Quote from: Trench on January 14, 2024, 07:08:27 PMTo be honest some of our wins let season early on were pretty lucky and we got the benefit of calls.
I will say however the game where he went for 2 at the end to win it (maybe game one or 2??) was my favorite part of the season. Dabol did not coach the same way early this season. I am still scratching my head asking where did that gutsy fella go?
Hard to be gutsy when you'r getting blown out in most of you losses.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 15, 2024, 12:40:06 AMHard to be gutsy when you'r getting blown out in most of you losses.
I was referring to some decisions he made this year early in games when the game was close but played it way too safe. Last year he coached more like the Lions coach Dan Campbell does.