Well...the season opened for the Knicks about as well as how it opened for the Giants. Knicks took a beating. However, when the Celtics started out heaving up treys, and they were falling like rain drops in a barrel, I knew it was going to be a long game. I've seen plenty of games in my lifetime where a good, or even a far better, team got their asses kicked because the other team's threes were falling like "manna from heaven". Heck, Boston could've taken hook shots from half court, and it would've been "nuthin but net". Sucks!
However, we have an unsung hero that deserves a full page dedicated to how lucky we are. And he's the least paid player on the Knicks' roster. That would be Miles McBride - the "Deuce". Hidden amongst a whole lot of big names with big salaries. Last night, all he did was come off the bench and drop 22 pts on the Green Machine up north...while playing an incredible defense to go along with his offense. He's actually better (IMHO) than IQ, and could win the 6th man of the year by the end of the season, if not a starter.
Last year, his stats were as follows:
FG: 57% (up 12% from the previous year)
3pt: 41% (up 12% from the previous year)
Freethrows: 86% (up 20% from the previous year)
With Divi no longer here, I think Deuce should be the 6th man and or might be in consideration for the starting 2 Guard spot, not to mention, Deuce has ALL NBA defensive ability. He's a workout warrior - a gym rat - who never stops training, day in and day out. His passion is to be the greatest NBA player in the league...and he just turned 24 a few weeks ago
And he's on a three year, $13,000,000 contract with an average annual salary of $4,333,333. That's chump change in the NBA, and he's locked in for the next three years. Talk about a bargain. Credit should go to Thibs for believing the kid is special and give him a chance...and he was right.
https://www.instagram.com/knicksfantv/reel/C5Q9krUBrXJ/?hl=en
Just a heads-up, Knicks play the Pacers tonight at the Garden
I only watched some of the Knicks game, but it was obviously a rough start. I'm not going to get worried about it though. I think it will take a month or two for them to be playing at their peak level. That doesn't mean I'm saying they'll be bad for a month or two. I just mean to really get everyone on the same page and things really clicking, it's going to take a little bit of time. Injecting two major new players into the starting lineup is a big deal. That's not just all going to click right on day one.
Let's see how they look tonight. Again though, I may miss a fair bit of this game as it's hard for me to favor October NBA games over the World Series.
I'm a longtime Knick fan. But I'm just getting so down on the NBA. This league is a 3 point shooting contest. It's so bad that a team makes three or four passes ... the big man drives to the hoop .. and he passes up a layup to throw the ball into the corner for a 3.
The major focus of the Knicks- Celtics was Boston breaking a record for making the most 3s. I long for the days without the 3 point shot. It's ruined the game.
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Quote from: todge on October 25, 2024, 04:47:00 PMI'm a longtime Knick fan. But I'm just getting so down on the NBA. This league is a 3 point shooting contest. It's so bad that a team makes three or four passes ... the big man drives to the hoop .. and he passes up a layup to throw the ball into the corner for a 3.
The major focus of the Knicks- Celtics was Boston breaking a record for making the most 3s. I long for the days without the 3 point shot. It's ruined the game.
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I have a lot of sympathy for this point of view Todge. I don't like all the threes either. I wouldn't mind it if they somehow moved the line back a foot or two.
I don't mind the existence of the three point shot. I thought it was fine 20-30 years ago. I just don't love the way it has completely taken over in the last decade or so.
I'm still an active Knicks fan though. The run they went on last year was very exciting. You'll never find me watching a random non-Knicks NBA game though, the way I might do in the NFL.
Quote from: todge on October 25, 2024, 04:47:00 PMI'm a longtime Knick fan. But I'm just getting so down on the NBA. This league is a 3 point shooting contest. It's so bad that a team makes three or four passes ... the big man drives to the hoop .. and he passes up a layup to throw the ball into the corner for a 3.
The major focus of the Knicks- Celtics was Boston breaking a record for making the most 3s. I long for the days without the 3 point shot. It's ruined the game.
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Really? I think a 3 is a gorgeous shot especially when a very pass oriented team makes 3-4 passes and someone hits a shot.
What I hate is the clear out to one sode so someone can go one on one with no defense played. Carmel Anthony anyone?
Rock solid blowout win last night. Great way to bounce back from the rough game one, and a nice way to greet your home fans for the season against the team that knocked you out last year. Bridges shot looked more than fine to me, Kat had a big game, and Brunson was Brunson. Just an all around very good night.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 26, 2024, 09:44:00 AMRock solid blowout win last night. Great way to bounce back from the rough game one, and a nice way to greet your home fans for the season against the team that knocked you out last year. Bridges shot looked more than fine to me, Kat had a big game, and Brunson was Brunson. Just an all around very good night.
That's the kind of resilience you want to see. Great balanced effort.
Quote from: todge on October 25, 2024, 04:47:00 PMI'm a longtime Knick fan. But I'm just getting so down on the NBA. This league is a 3 point shooting contest. It's so bad that a team makes three or four passes ... the big man drives to the hoop .. and he passes up a layup to throw the ball into the corner for a 3.
The major focus of the Knicks- Celtics was Boston breaking a record for making the most 3s. I long for the days without the 3 point shot. It's ruined the game.
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I sorta agree, and disagree. I certainly see your point in which too many teams rely on the three...and as the old saying goes, "live by the three, die by the three"
Where I disagree, is that it offers an opportunity for a team that has fallen behind, to still be in the game if they can just hit a few threes. That would explain why a big guy under the basket for an easy bucket, kicks it out to the open guy for an open three - they need the points to still have a chance to get in the game. A good coach needs both, and when his team is comfortably ahead, he wants those easy 2 pt buckets to keep it going and let the other team scramble to get back in it
I did hate the first game where Boston couldn't miss a three even when they were covered like the dew on morning grass. Why do anything else when they can rain threes like manna from heaven? They were shooting like 90% from behind the arc. Hand in face, no problem. There was no catching up for the Knicks at some point. Then at the end of the game (with an enormous lead) Boston couldn't hit a three to save their ass, and were throwing them up anyway like popcorn because they wanted to set a new NBA record...boring and no longer baskeball IMO - TV off!
If that game was close, they wouldn't have played those last minutes just heaving the ball and laughing like school girls. They knew they were too far ahead for the Knicks to do anything about it...game was already over, for all intents and purposes. That's also the reason Boston will have problems this year at times, because other teams scheme around that strategy and the "trey won't fall". And then it's, "die by the three"
No posts in this thread for over two months, wow.
Is anyone else getting increasingly excited about this team's play? I know it has taken some time to gel, and yes, there were some games against less-than-stellar teams that they had no business losing, but man, I feel like it has really come together nicely of late. Bodes very well for January and beyond.
We do need help on the bench. Getting Precious back has helped, but we need another rim protector in a big way. Mitch will eventually come back but he flat out can't be trusted. In fact, I'd seriously consider sitting from from the end of March onwards and just saving him for the playoffs. They need someone else though. Doesn't have to be a stud obviously, but just another body who can help a bit in that area. I don't want to find ourselves in a situation where we are asking Precious to play 20-plus minutes in the playoffs. Sims isn't the answer either.
I am thrilled at the extent to which Bridges has found his game. Towns has been an absolute beast. Brunson is Brunson (hung 55 last night). OG is awesome and does so many little things that don't show up in the stat sheet. I was at a game about three or four weeks ago and was lucky enough to be in very good seats, and I watched OG closely during much of the game. He does so many little things on D that are so valuable. And offensively he's hardly some slouch.
Deuce is an improving player that gives you a lot of minutes off the bench. Hart is all heart and grit - love him.
I don't miss Randle at all. I know Barrett has found his game in Toronto, and good for him, but I really don't miss what he was doing on the Knicks. Quickley was a nice player but not some crucial guy. Donte would be nice to have but I'd much rather have Bridges and it's not remotely close. And as said earlier, KAT is just a complete monster.
I'm pumped. Can this team beat the Celts or Cavs in a series? I'm not so quick to say no. I would have absolutely said no about the Celts last year, even if the team was healthy, which we weren't. This year I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Our starting five is champinoship caliber. We do need some depth help, but that can be addressed.
I'm extremely pumped about what this team is now and about where it's going.
Dave,
Ironically the Knicks approach is the exact culture and attitude going into each game that we all want for the Giants.
I've been a Knicks fan for the exact number of years I've been a Giants fan, fifty four and they are definitely due for a ring.
It would be nice to see the Giants brass reference this franchise as the way back.
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Yes, very excited about this group. It's frankly ECF atleast or bust. I don't want to say it too early but this might be the best overall group the team has had.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 29, 2024, 10:23:46 AMYes, very excited about this group. It's frankly ECF atleast or bust. I don't want to say it too early but this might be the best overall group the team has had.
Just making the ECF won't be enough for me, personally. At the very least I want a very spirited, close loss in the ECF. They frankly would have made it last year if literally just about the whole team wasn't hurt in that Pacers series. This year I absolutely expect them to not only make but also compete and possibly win the ECF. I appreciate that right now we look like no better than the third best team in the east, but it may not be that straightforward 2-3 months from now. Our starting five is as good as any. Yes, teams like the Celts have way more depth and can deal with injuries better than we can, and for that reason I'd say they're still better, but unlike last year I would not put any ceiling on what this team may be capable of if they're healthy late.
I watched the whole Knicks game last night. I thought they looked terrific for most of the game, but I said to my friend on a text after the third quarter that I knew OKC would come out storming in the fourth quarter.
I think the Knicks have a championship caliber starting five. I honestly do. I would have never said that at any time since the 90s, and even in the 90s I always knew that as good as those teams were, the Bulls were always better. In terms of the starting five, I'm not sure anyone is better than us this year. So that's the good news.
The issue is our bench is incredibly limited, and so by the fourth quarter our guys were gassed. Admittedly, we were playing without Deuce last night, which really hurts because Cameron Payne is awful, and we were also missing Mitch (per usual).
Re Mitch, at this point I am at a point where I effectively ALWAYS expect him to be out. Anytime he's in, it's gravy. The guy can't stay healthy, period. That has been demonstrated over a meaningful sample to where it's just a fact. If I were the Knicks, I would wait until he's healthy, play him for a bit, and then shelf him with at least 3-4 weeks to spare before the playoffs to try to get him 100% for the playoffs. And if we end up with a high side I'm not even sure I'd use him in the first round. The Knicks lack secondary and tertiary rim protectors and really need Mitch healthy in the playoffs to have a shot against someone like the Celtics. No matter what I think they need to add 1-2 guys before the deadline. I would add one rim protector and maybe another guard. Right now their bench just isn't enough, and I'm sorry but this team has a tendency to get banged up.
Overall I'm extremely positive though. That loss last night was to the best team in the NBA, and it was on the road. And the Knicks were the better team until the fourth quarter. Obviously, the fourth quarter is when games are won or lost, but I actually think if we had had Deuce in that game we might have been ok.
Our starting five is nasty. This team is so well constructed. I still can't believe we got Josh Hart for Cam Reddish... what an absolute steal. Leon Rose has been brilliant.
I am really enjoying this season, and I feel like it's only going to get better from here. They look way more gelled to me now than six weeks ago.
Leon Rose did not appear initially to most like he wod be an effective head of Knicks Operations because he did not follow the usual path to this position. What he did prior to the Knicks was create a kick a$$ organization of representing players. He was a dominant force. The qualities of building a great org are what we need our Giants GM to possess. Maybe we need to look elsewhere than all the assistant GMs looking to be a GM should the Giants fire JS.
Bravo to the blueprint Rose created for the Knicks. He had a plan. Good management has real value to an org.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 04, 2025, 08:06:23 AMLeon Rose did not appear initially to most like he wod be an effective head of Knicks Operations because he did not follow the usual path to this position. What he did prior to the Knicks was create a kick a$$ organization of representing players. He was a dominant force. The qualities of building a great org are what we need our Giants GM to possess. Maybe we need to look elsewhere than all the assistant GMs looking to be a GM should the Giants fire JS.
Bravo to the blueprint Rose created for the Knicks. He had a plan. Good management has real value to an org.
He had a plan and he remained disciplined to it, and unlike the GM of the Rangers I don't get the sense that he gets bullied around at all by Dolan. Rose showed remarkable patience and discipline in building this team over the past 3-4 years to what it is today. His big moves (Brunson, the Towns trade, OG, etc) have all been great, and his smaller moves like Hart have also been awesome for the most part.
The Knicks need depth, and everyone knows that. I have to check when the deadline is, but I don't think it's for a couple months. So I'm not super concerned, but we do need 1-2 guys who can come in and give you 8-14 serviceable minutes.
Last night the story of the game was the three. The Thunder shot over 50% from behind the arc. We were in the 20s. Brunson was 0 for 5 from three. Apart from this disparity between the two teams, I thought the Knicks played great. They were great on the boards, they were making defensive plays, they were scoring without too much trouble against the best defense in the league, and they were just making their presence felt physically. It's never fun to lose, especially when you're in the third quarter and you feel like you can win, but I am pretty positive on what I saw last night and I'm extremely positive overall. With a couple more tweaks and with a healthy Mitch, I think this team can give a series to anyone in the league. No chance you can find a post of me saying that at any time in the last couple years.
They need a banger who is willing to throw an elbow or two while warring in the lane.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:26:53 AMHe had a plan and he remained disciplined to it, and unlike the GM of the Rangers I don't get the sense that he gets bullied around at all by Dolan. Rose showed remarkable patience and discipline in building this team over the past 3-4 years to what it is today. His big moves (Brunson, the Towns trade, OG, etc) have all been great, and his smaller moves like Hart have also been awesome for the most part.
The Knicks need depth, and everyone knows that. I have to check when the deadline is, but I don't think it's for a couple months. So I'm not super concerned, but we do need 1-2 guys who can come in and give you 8-14 serviceable minutes.
Last night the story of the game was the three. The Thunder shot over 50% from behind the arc. We were in the 20s. Brunson was 0 for 5 from three. Apart from this disparity between the two teams, I thought the Knicks played great. They were great on the boards, they were making defensive plays, they were scoring without too much trouble against the best defense in the league, and they were just making their presence felt physically. It's never fun to lose, especially when you're in the third quarter and you feel like you can win, but I am pretty positive on what I saw last night and I'm extremely positive overall. With a couple more tweaks and with a healthy Mitch, I think this team can give a series to anyone in the league. No chance you can find a post of me saying that at any time in the last couple years.
They were missing Duece last night who gives them major minutes off the bench & 3 point shots. On the other hand, Thunder was missing Holmgren, a very talented big. I agree with you on the need for depth although Thibs will get alot out of Psyne & Shamet. I also agree on the need for a rim protector especially for when Robinson gets hurt. They supposedly like a big young guy on the Pistons who will probably be more available if & when Pistons drop out if the play in. Their losing Iver hurts them & maybe helps us. His name is Stewart
Quote from: nb587 on January 04, 2025, 01:47:46 PMThey were missing Duece last night who gives them major minutes off the bench & 3 point shots. On the other hand, Thunder was missing Holmgren, a very talented big. I agree with you on the need for depth although Thibs will get alot out of Psyne & Shamet. I also agree on the need for a rim protector especially for when Robinson gets hurt. They supposedly like a big young guy on the Pistons who will probably be more available if & when Pistons drop out if the play in. Their losing Iver hurts them & maybe helps us. His name is Stewart
Great intel, thanks. I wasn't aware of that about Stewart.
Agree about them missing Holmgren being meaningful although I think you can argue that the absence of Deuce + Robinson was at least as impactful to us.
I'm not suggesting the Knicks are better than or even on par with the Thunder, but I think last night showed the gap isn't that wide. That same Knicks team with Deuce, Mitch, and 1-2 other bodies is going to be a tough out for anyone in the league in a 7 game series. It's a big step up from last year. The starting five is championship material. Obviously you need more than 5 to win a title, but getting the 5 right is the hardest and most expensive part.
The game against Thunder is EVERYTHNG a true fan wants: hard fought quality basketball
Sure, I wanted the Knicks to win, but I'm also a fan of quality ball, even when my favorite team comes up short. We need Mitch back, and move KAT to the 4 spot. My only worry is that it will take Mitch a dozen games before he gets in rhythm with players that he's never played with before. Once that happens, the Knicks will be a tough team to beat...with the caveat: Can Mitch stay healthy? If he gets hurt again, try to trade him for Hartenstein...lol (they should have traded Mitch during off season and freed up money to keep Hartenstein...one of Rose/Thibs only mistake IMO)
I'm not terribly worried about depth. Deuce is fantastic, and Kolic was an absolute steal in the draft (Brunson 2.0), Payne is pretty solid, Precious gives quality minutes, when Shamet gets hot, he can shoot the lights out, Dadiet just needs some seasoning, and of course, once Mitch is back, our best bench player becomes Josh. After years of crying about not having a decent PG, we suddenly have a plethora of options...all of them, top-notch. I can't wait to see Kolic in a few years
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 04, 2025, 06:15:27 PMThe game against Thunder is EVERYTHNG a true fan wants: hard fought quality basketball
Sure, I wanted the Knicks to win, but I'm also a fan of quality ball, even when my favorite team comes up short. We need Mitch back, and move KAT to the 4 spot. My only worry is that it will take Mitch a dozen games before he gets in rhythm with players that he's never played with before. Once that happens, the Knicks will be a tough team to beat...with the caveat: Can Mitch stay healthy? If he gets hurt again, try to trade him for Hartenstein...lol (they should have traded Mitch during off season and freed up money to keep Hartenstein...one of Rose/Thibs only mistake IMO)
I'm not terribly worried about depth. Deuce is fantastic, and Kolic was an absolute steal in the draft (Brunson 2.0), Payne is pretty solid, Precious gives quality minutes, when Shamet gets hot, he can shoot the lights out, Dadiet just needs some seasoning, and of course, once Mitch is back, our best bench player becomes Josh. After years of crying about not having a decent PG, we suddenly have a plethora of options...all of them, top-notch. I can't wait to see Kolic in a few years
You may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:08:33 PMYou may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.
The biggest problem on the Knicks is depth and the biggest depth problem is that they can't rely on Mitchell to be healthy through the playoffs. What he brings to the table is exactly what they need but I dont see Leon Rose, after making so many high profile moves, putting so much on the line depending on someone who consistently misses the amount of time that us Mitchell. I would be shocked if they dont make the move for Stewart or someone like him
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:08:33 PMYou may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.
Fair enough. I think the elephant in the room (as far as Thib's confidence in his bench) is that the starting 5 is logging in more minutes than any other team...and by quite a margin over the second place team for starters' minutes. That's worrisome, because it's a long season and the problems with overuse of players shows up towards the end of the season when the body starts breaking down
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 04, 2025, 11:47:58 PMFair enough. I think the elephant in the room (as far as Thib's confidence in his bench) is that the starting 5 is logging in more minutes than any other team...and by quite a margin over the second place team for starters' minutes. That's worrisome, because it's a long season and the problems with overuse of players shows up towards the end of the season when the body starts breaking down
Totally agree.
The bottom line is is the bench isn't good enough to begin with, and right now you have the only two legitimately good bench players we have (Mitch and Deuce) both out. Thibs definitely overworks his starters when he doesn't have confidence in the bench. I can't really blame him.
It will get better. I'm not happier with last night's loss than anyone else, but until they get more depth they're not going to be a dominant team with the type of record that teams like the Thunder and Cavs have.
We need Deuce and Mitch back, and we need other guys. Guys like Kolek etc may be players of tomorrow but they're not going to play key roles in a championship drive of 2024/25.
One think that's great about the Knicks is they have a nice window to work with here. Nobody in the starting five is even 30 yet. Rose has done an awesome job assembling a championship caliber starting five without bringing in 33-35 year old types. We just need some more depth.
I wouldn't say I'm in panic mode about the Knicks, but I am definitely disappointed at this point, relative to my expectations. I always knew the Knicks had bench/depth issues, but I still would have expected them to have gelled and been playing better by the second half of January. Losing to teams like Detroit and Minnesota at MSG, last night in pretty decisive fashion, along with a number of other would-be inferior teams, has been really frustrating.
Our defense is poor. The depth is a real problem. Yes, getting back Mitch will help, but let's be honest - with Mitch, once he comes back from his standard three month injury, it's usually just a matter of weeks or even days until he's seriously hurt again. He is supposed to be back in February. I'd seriously consider playing him for a month or so, then putting him back on ice, and then maybe activating him again about five days before the start of the playoffs. He's of no use to us if he's not healthy for the playoffs.
Again, while thing are not a disaster, this has been disappointing. I was expecting the Knicks to be better than last year's team with these improvements they have made. That is simply not the case though. Last year's team, to this point at least, was clearly better. The defense was much better and the overall flow and teamwork was better as well.
Definitely concerning.
Quote from: files58 on January 04, 2025, 01:19:22 PMThey need a banger who is willing to throw an elbow or two while warring in the lane.
Charles Barkley or Anthony Mason
I understand OG is out and Mitch still hasn't come back yet, but games like tonight make me think this team still isn't all that close.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 08, 2025, 10:55:02 PMI understand OG is out and Mitch still hasn't come back yet, but games like tonight make me think this team still isn't all that close.
Dave, I totally agree with you . The Celtics played without Porzingas and they destroyed us, ( I assume you are a Knick fan as I am ). They will not get out of the East this year.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on February 09, 2025, 11:49:26 AMDave, I totally agree with you . The Celtics played without Porzingas and they destroyed us, ( I assume you are a Knick fan as I am ). They will not get out of the East this year.
I am.
I have to agree with you, although I'm disappointed that they're not better. Last year I absolutely believe they would have made it to the ECF had their team not been so banged up (they made it to game seven of the second round as it was), and I felt like they got appreciably better in the offseason with Towns and Bridges added into the mix.
They haven't been bad per se, but they have definitely fallen short (to this point) of what I was hoping for.
I will say I think OG is one of the most underrated players in the league, and not having him out there is a game changer. I had the opportunity to attend a Knicks game earlier this season in amazing seats there near the floor, and I was focusing on OG a lot in an isolated way. He does a ton of things out there that you won't see in the box score but really help the team. I really hope he's not out too long.
But as I said earlier, having him last night wouldn't have made a difference. They were losing that game convincingly no matter what.