Well...the season opened for the Knicks about as well as how it opened for the Giants. Knicks took a beating. However, when the Celtics started out heaving up treys, and they were falling like rain drops in a barrel, I knew it was going to be a long game. I've seen plenty of games in my lifetime where a good, or even a far better, team got their asses kicked because the other team's threes were falling like "manna from heaven". Heck, Boston could've taken hook shots from half court, and it would've been "nuthin but net". Sucks!
However, we have an unsung hero that deserves a full page dedicated to how lucky we are. And he's the least paid player on the Knicks' roster. That would be Miles McBride - the "Deuce". Hidden amongst a whole lot of big names with big salaries. Last night, all he did was come off the bench and drop 22 pts on the Green Machine up north...while playing an incredible defense to go along with his offense. He's actually better (IMHO) than IQ, and could win the 6th man of the year by the end of the season, if not a starter.
Last year, his stats were as follows:
FG: 57% (up 12% from the previous year)
3pt: 41% (up 12% from the previous year)
Freethrows: 86% (up 20% from the previous year)
With Divi no longer here, I think Deuce should be the 6th man and or might be in consideration for the starting 2 Guard spot, not to mention, Deuce has ALL NBA defensive ability. He's a workout warrior - a gym rat - who never stops training, day in and day out. His passion is to be the greatest NBA player in the league...and he just turned 24 a few weeks ago
And he's on a three year, $13,000,000 contract with an average annual salary of $4,333,333. That's chump change in the NBA, and he's locked in for the next three years. Talk about a bargain. Credit should go to Thibs for believing the kid is special and give him a chance...and he was right.
https://www.instagram.com/knicksfantv/reel/C5Q9krUBrXJ/?hl=en
Just a heads-up, Knicks play the Pacers tonight at the Garden
I only watched some of the Knicks game, but it was obviously a rough start. I'm not going to get worried about it though. I think it will take a month or two for them to be playing at their peak level. That doesn't mean I'm saying they'll be bad for a month or two. I just mean to really get everyone on the same page and things really clicking, it's going to take a little bit of time. Injecting two major new players into the starting lineup is a big deal. That's not just all going to click right on day one.
Let's see how they look tonight. Again though, I may miss a fair bit of this game as it's hard for me to favor October NBA games over the World Series.
I'm a longtime Knick fan. But I'm just getting so down on the NBA. This league is a 3 point shooting contest. It's so bad that a team makes three or four passes ... the big man drives to the hoop .. and he passes up a layup to throw the ball into the corner for a 3.
The major focus of the Knicks- Celtics was Boston breaking a record for making the most 3s. I long for the days without the 3 point shot. It's ruined the game.
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Quote from: todge on October 25, 2024, 04:47:00 PMI'm a longtime Knick fan. But I'm just getting so down on the NBA. This league is a 3 point shooting contest. It's so bad that a team makes three or four passes ... the big man drives to the hoop .. and he passes up a layup to throw the ball into the corner for a 3.
The major focus of the Knicks- Celtics was Boston breaking a record for making the most 3s. I long for the days without the 3 point shot. It's ruined the game.
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I have a lot of sympathy for this point of view Todge. I don't like all the threes either. I wouldn't mind it if they somehow moved the line back a foot or two.
I don't mind the existence of the three point shot. I thought it was fine 20-30 years ago. I just don't love the way it has completely taken over in the last decade or so.
I'm still an active Knicks fan though. The run they went on last year was very exciting. You'll never find me watching a random non-Knicks NBA game though, the way I might do in the NFL.
Quote from: todge on October 25, 2024, 04:47:00 PMI'm a longtime Knick fan. But I'm just getting so down on the NBA. This league is a 3 point shooting contest. It's so bad that a team makes three or four passes ... the big man drives to the hoop .. and he passes up a layup to throw the ball into the corner for a 3.
The major focus of the Knicks- Celtics was Boston breaking a record for making the most 3s. I long for the days without the 3 point shot. It's ruined the game.
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Really? I think a 3 is a gorgeous shot especially when a very pass oriented team makes 3-4 passes and someone hits a shot.
What I hate is the clear out to one sode so someone can go one on one with no defense played. Carmel Anthony anyone?
Rock solid blowout win last night. Great way to bounce back from the rough game one, and a nice way to greet your home fans for the season against the team that knocked you out last year. Bridges shot looked more than fine to me, Kat had a big game, and Brunson was Brunson. Just an all around very good night.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 26, 2024, 09:44:00 AMRock solid blowout win last night. Great way to bounce back from the rough game one, and a nice way to greet your home fans for the season against the team that knocked you out last year. Bridges shot looked more than fine to me, Kat had a big game, and Brunson was Brunson. Just an all around very good night.
That's the kind of resilience you want to see. Great balanced effort.
Quote from: todge on October 25, 2024, 04:47:00 PMI'm a longtime Knick fan. But I'm just getting so down on the NBA. This league is a 3 point shooting contest. It's so bad that a team makes three or four passes ... the big man drives to the hoop .. and he passes up a layup to throw the ball into the corner for a 3.
The major focus of the Knicks- Celtics was Boston breaking a record for making the most 3s. I long for the days without the 3 point shot. It's ruined the game.
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I sorta agree, and disagree. I certainly see your point in which too many teams rely on the three...and as the old saying goes, "live by the three, die by the three"
Where I disagree, is that it offers an opportunity for a team that has fallen behind, to still be in the game if they can just hit a few threes. That would explain why a big guy under the basket for an easy bucket, kicks it out to the open guy for an open three - they need the points to still have a chance to get in the game. A good coach needs both, and when his team is comfortably ahead, he wants those easy 2 pt buckets to keep it going and let the other team scramble to get back in it
I did hate the first game where Boston couldn't miss a three even when they were covered like the dew on morning grass. Why do anything else when they can rain threes like manna from heaven? They were shooting like 90% from behind the arc. Hand in face, no problem. There was no catching up for the Knicks at some point. Then at the end of the game (with an enormous lead) Boston couldn't hit a three to save their ass, and were throwing them up anyway like popcorn because they wanted to set a new NBA record...boring and no longer baskeball IMO - TV off!
If that game was close, they wouldn't have played those last minutes just heaving the ball and laughing like school girls. They knew they were too far ahead for the Knicks to do anything about it...game was already over, for all intents and purposes. That's also the reason Boston will have problems this year at times, because other teams scheme around that strategy and the "trey won't fall". And then it's, "die by the three"
No posts in this thread for over two months, wow.
Is anyone else getting increasingly excited about this team's play? I know it has taken some time to gel, and yes, there were some games against less-than-stellar teams that they had no business losing, but man, I feel like it has really come together nicely of late. Bodes very well for January and beyond.
We do need help on the bench. Getting Precious back has helped, but we need another rim protector in a big way. Mitch will eventually come back but he flat out can't be trusted. In fact, I'd seriously consider sitting from from the end of March onwards and just saving him for the playoffs. They need someone else though. Doesn't have to be a stud obviously, but just another body who can help a bit in that area. I don't want to find ourselves in a situation where we are asking Precious to play 20-plus minutes in the playoffs. Sims isn't the answer either.
I am thrilled at the extent to which Bridges has found his game. Towns has been an absolute beast. Brunson is Brunson (hung 55 last night). OG is awesome and does so many little things that don't show up in the stat sheet. I was at a game about three or four weeks ago and was lucky enough to be in very good seats, and I watched OG closely during much of the game. He does so many little things on D that are so valuable. And offensively he's hardly some slouch.
Deuce is an improving player that gives you a lot of minutes off the bench. Hart is all heart and grit - love him.
I don't miss Randle at all. I know Barrett has found his game in Toronto, and good for him, but I really don't miss what he was doing on the Knicks. Quickley was a nice player but not some crucial guy. Donte would be nice to have but I'd much rather have Bridges and it's not remotely close. And as said earlier, KAT is just a complete monster.
I'm pumped. Can this team beat the Celts or Cavs in a series? I'm not so quick to say no. I would have absolutely said no about the Celts last year, even if the team was healthy, which we weren't. This year I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Our starting five is champinoship caliber. We do need some depth help, but that can be addressed.
I'm extremely pumped about what this team is now and about where it's going.
Dave,
Ironically the Knicks approach is the exact culture and attitude going into each game that we all want for the Giants.
I've been a Knicks fan for the exact number of years I've been a Giants fan, fifty four and they are definitely due for a ring.
It would be nice to see the Giants brass reference this franchise as the way back.
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Yes, very excited about this group. It's frankly ECF atleast or bust. I don't want to say it too early but this might be the best overall group the team has had.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 29, 2024, 10:23:46 AMYes, very excited about this group. It's frankly ECF atleast or bust. I don't want to say it too early but this might be the best overall group the team has had.
Just making the ECF won't be enough for me, personally. At the very least I want a very spirited, close loss in the ECF. They frankly would have made it last year if literally just about the whole team wasn't hurt in that Pacers series. This year I absolutely expect them to not only make but also compete and possibly win the ECF. I appreciate that right now we look like no better than the third best team in the east, but it may not be that straightforward 2-3 months from now. Our starting five is as good as any. Yes, teams like the Celts have way more depth and can deal with injuries better than we can, and for that reason I'd say they're still better, but unlike last year I would not put any ceiling on what this team may be capable of if they're healthy late.
I watched the whole Knicks game last night. I thought they looked terrific for most of the game, but I said to my friend on a text after the third quarter that I knew OKC would come out storming in the fourth quarter.
I think the Knicks have a championship caliber starting five. I honestly do. I would have never said that at any time since the 90s, and even in the 90s I always knew that as good as those teams were, the Bulls were always better. In terms of the starting five, I'm not sure anyone is better than us this year. So that's the good news.
The issue is our bench is incredibly limited, and so by the fourth quarter our guys were gassed. Admittedly, we were playing without Deuce last night, which really hurts because Cameron Payne is awful, and we were also missing Mitch (per usual).
Re Mitch, at this point I am at a point where I effectively ALWAYS expect him to be out. Anytime he's in, it's gravy. The guy can't stay healthy, period. That has been demonstrated over a meaningful sample to where it's just a fact. If I were the Knicks, I would wait until he's healthy, play him for a bit, and then shelf him with at least 3-4 weeks to spare before the playoffs to try to get him 100% for the playoffs. And if we end up with a high side I'm not even sure I'd use him in the first round. The Knicks lack secondary and tertiary rim protectors and really need Mitch healthy in the playoffs to have a shot against someone like the Celtics. No matter what I think they need to add 1-2 guys before the deadline. I would add one rim protector and maybe another guard. Right now their bench just isn't enough, and I'm sorry but this team has a tendency to get banged up.
Overall I'm extremely positive though. That loss last night was to the best team in the NBA, and it was on the road. And the Knicks were the better team until the fourth quarter. Obviously, the fourth quarter is when games are won or lost, but I actually think if we had had Deuce in that game we might have been ok.
Our starting five is nasty. This team is so well constructed. I still can't believe we got Josh Hart for Cam Reddish... what an absolute steal. Leon Rose has been brilliant.
I am really enjoying this season, and I feel like it's only going to get better from here. They look way more gelled to me now than six weeks ago.
Leon Rose did not appear initially to most like he wod be an effective head of Knicks Operations because he did not follow the usual path to this position. What he did prior to the Knicks was create a kick a$$ organization of representing players. He was a dominant force. The qualities of building a great org are what we need our Giants GM to possess. Maybe we need to look elsewhere than all the assistant GMs looking to be a GM should the Giants fire JS.
Bravo to the blueprint Rose created for the Knicks. He had a plan. Good management has real value to an org.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 04, 2025, 08:06:23 AMLeon Rose did not appear initially to most like he wod be an effective head of Knicks Operations because he did not follow the usual path to this position. What he did prior to the Knicks was create a kick a$$ organization of representing players. He was a dominant force. The qualities of building a great org are what we need our Giants GM to possess. Maybe we need to look elsewhere than all the assistant GMs looking to be a GM should the Giants fire JS.
Bravo to the blueprint Rose created for the Knicks. He had a plan. Good management has real value to an org.
He had a plan and he remained disciplined to it, and unlike the GM of the Rangers I don't get the sense that he gets bullied around at all by Dolan. Rose showed remarkable patience and discipline in building this team over the past 3-4 years to what it is today. His big moves (Brunson, the Towns trade, OG, etc) have all been great, and his smaller moves like Hart have also been awesome for the most part.
The Knicks need depth, and everyone knows that. I have to check when the deadline is, but I don't think it's for a couple months. So I'm not super concerned, but we do need 1-2 guys who can come in and give you 8-14 serviceable minutes.
Last night the story of the game was the three. The Thunder shot over 50% from behind the arc. We were in the 20s. Brunson was 0 for 5 from three. Apart from this disparity between the two teams, I thought the Knicks played great. They were great on the boards, they were making defensive plays, they were scoring without too much trouble against the best defense in the league, and they were just making their presence felt physically. It's never fun to lose, especially when you're in the third quarter and you feel like you can win, but I am pretty positive on what I saw last night and I'm extremely positive overall. With a couple more tweaks and with a healthy Mitch, I think this team can give a series to anyone in the league. No chance you can find a post of me saying that at any time in the last couple years.
They need a banger who is willing to throw an elbow or two while warring in the lane.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:26:53 AMHe had a plan and he remained disciplined to it, and unlike the GM of the Rangers I don't get the sense that he gets bullied around at all by Dolan. Rose showed remarkable patience and discipline in building this team over the past 3-4 years to what it is today. His big moves (Brunson, the Towns trade, OG, etc) have all been great, and his smaller moves like Hart have also been awesome for the most part.
The Knicks need depth, and everyone knows that. I have to check when the deadline is, but I don't think it's for a couple months. So I'm not super concerned, but we do need 1-2 guys who can come in and give you 8-14 serviceable minutes.
Last night the story of the game was the three. The Thunder shot over 50% from behind the arc. We were in the 20s. Brunson was 0 for 5 from three. Apart from this disparity between the two teams, I thought the Knicks played great. They were great on the boards, they were making defensive plays, they were scoring without too much trouble against the best defense in the league, and they were just making their presence felt physically. It's never fun to lose, especially when you're in the third quarter and you feel like you can win, but I am pretty positive on what I saw last night and I'm extremely positive overall. With a couple more tweaks and with a healthy Mitch, I think this team can give a series to anyone in the league. No chance you can find a post of me saying that at any time in the last couple years.
They were missing Duece last night who gives them major minutes off the bench & 3 point shots. On the other hand, Thunder was missing Holmgren, a very talented big. I agree with you on the need for depth although Thibs will get alot out of Psyne & Shamet. I also agree on the need for a rim protector especially for when Robinson gets hurt. They supposedly like a big young guy on the Pistons who will probably be more available if & when Pistons drop out if the play in. Their losing Iver hurts them & maybe helps us. His name is Stewart
Quote from: nb587 on January 04, 2025, 01:47:46 PMThey were missing Duece last night who gives them major minutes off the bench & 3 point shots. On the other hand, Thunder was missing Holmgren, a very talented big. I agree with you on the need for depth although Thibs will get alot out of Psyne & Shamet. I also agree on the need for a rim protector especially for when Robinson gets hurt. They supposedly like a big young guy on the Pistons who will probably be more available if & when Pistons drop out if the play in. Their losing Iver hurts them & maybe helps us. His name is Stewart
Great intel, thanks. I wasn't aware of that about Stewart.
Agree about them missing Holmgren being meaningful although I think you can argue that the absence of Deuce + Robinson was at least as impactful to us.
I'm not suggesting the Knicks are better than or even on par with the Thunder, but I think last night showed the gap isn't that wide. That same Knicks team with Deuce, Mitch, and 1-2 other bodies is going to be a tough out for anyone in the league in a 7 game series. It's a big step up from last year. The starting five is championship material. Obviously you need more than 5 to win a title, but getting the 5 right is the hardest and most expensive part.
The game against Thunder is EVERYTHNG a true fan wants: hard fought quality basketball
Sure, I wanted the Knicks to win, but I'm also a fan of quality ball, even when my favorite team comes up short. We need Mitch back, and move KAT to the 4 spot. My only worry is that it will take Mitch a dozen games before he gets in rhythm with players that he's never played with before. Once that happens, the Knicks will be a tough team to beat...with the caveat: Can Mitch stay healthy? If he gets hurt again, try to trade him for Hartenstein...lol (they should have traded Mitch during off season and freed up money to keep Hartenstein...one of Rose/Thibs only mistake IMO)
I'm not terribly worried about depth. Deuce is fantastic, and Kolic was an absolute steal in the draft (Brunson 2.0), Payne is pretty solid, Precious gives quality minutes, when Shamet gets hot, he can shoot the lights out, Dadiet just needs some seasoning, and of course, once Mitch is back, our best bench player becomes Josh. After years of crying about not having a decent PG, we suddenly have a plethora of options...all of them, top-notch. I can't wait to see Kolic in a few years
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 04, 2025, 06:15:27 PMThe game against Thunder is EVERYTHNG a true fan wants: hard fought quality basketball
Sure, I wanted the Knicks to win, but I'm also a fan of quality ball, even when my favorite team comes up short. We need Mitch back, and move KAT to the 4 spot. My only worry is that it will take Mitch a dozen games before he gets in rhythm with players that he's never played with before. Once that happens, the Knicks will be a tough team to beat...with the caveat: Can Mitch stay healthy? If he gets hurt again, try to trade him for Hartenstein...lol (they should have traded Mitch during off season and freed up money to keep Hartenstein...one of Rose/Thibs only mistake IMO)
I'm not terribly worried about depth. Deuce is fantastic, and Kolic was an absolute steal in the draft (Brunson 2.0), Payne is pretty solid, Precious gives quality minutes, when Shamet gets hot, he can shoot the lights out, Dadiet just needs some seasoning, and of course, once Mitch is back, our best bench player becomes Josh. After years of crying about not having a decent PG, we suddenly have a plethora of options...all of them, top-notch. I can't wait to see Kolic in a few years
You may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:08:33 PMYou may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.
The biggest problem on the Knicks is depth and the biggest depth problem is that they can't rely on Mitchell to be healthy through the playoffs. What he brings to the table is exactly what they need but I dont see Leon Rose, after making so many high profile moves, putting so much on the line depending on someone who consistently misses the amount of time that us Mitchell. I would be shocked if they dont make the move for Stewart or someone like him
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:08:33 PMYou may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.
Fair enough. I think the elephant in the room (as far as Thib's confidence in his bench) is that the starting 5 is logging in more minutes than any other team...and by quite a margin over the second place team for starters' minutes. That's worrisome, because it's a long season and the problems with overuse of players shows up towards the end of the season when the body starts breaking down
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 04, 2025, 11:47:58 PMFair enough. I think the elephant in the room (as far as Thib's confidence in his bench) is that the starting 5 is logging in more minutes than any other team...and by quite a margin over the second place team for starters' minutes. That's worrisome, because it's a long season and the problems with overuse of players shows up towards the end of the season when the body starts breaking down
Totally agree.
The bottom line is is the bench isn't good enough to begin with, and right now you have the only two legitimately good bench players we have (Mitch and Deuce) both out. Thibs definitely overworks his starters when he doesn't have confidence in the bench. I can't really blame him.
It will get better. I'm not happier with last night's loss than anyone else, but until they get more depth they're not going to be a dominant team with the type of record that teams like the Thunder and Cavs have.
We need Deuce and Mitch back, and we need other guys. Guys like Kolek etc may be players of tomorrow but they're not going to play key roles in a championship drive of 2024/25.
One think that's great about the Knicks is they have a nice window to work with here. Nobody in the starting five is even 30 yet. Rose has done an awesome job assembling a championship caliber starting five without bringing in 33-35 year old types. We just need some more depth.
I wouldn't say I'm in panic mode about the Knicks, but I am definitely disappointed at this point, relative to my expectations. I always knew the Knicks had bench/depth issues, but I still would have expected them to have gelled and been playing better by the second half of January. Losing to teams like Detroit and Minnesota at MSG, last night in pretty decisive fashion, along with a number of other would-be inferior teams, has been really frustrating.
Our defense is poor. The depth is a real problem. Yes, getting back Mitch will help, but let's be honest - with Mitch, once he comes back from his standard three month injury, it's usually just a matter of weeks or even days until he's seriously hurt again. He is supposed to be back in February. I'd seriously consider playing him for a month or so, then putting him back on ice, and then maybe activating him again about five days before the start of the playoffs. He's of no use to us if he's not healthy for the playoffs.
Again, while thing are not a disaster, this has been disappointing. I was expecting the Knicks to be better than last year's team with these improvements they have made. That is simply not the case though. Last year's team, to this point at least, was clearly better. The defense was much better and the overall flow and teamwork was better as well.
Definitely concerning.
Quote from: files58 on January 04, 2025, 01:19:22 PMThey need a banger who is willing to throw an elbow or two while warring in the lane.
Charles Barkley or Anthony Mason
I understand OG is out and Mitch still hasn't come back yet, but games like tonight make me think this team still isn't all that close.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 08, 2025, 10:55:02 PMI understand OG is out and Mitch still hasn't come back yet, but games like tonight make me think this team still isn't all that close.
Dave, I totally agree with you . The Celtics played without Porzingas and they destroyed us, ( I assume you are a Knick fan as I am ). They will not get out of the East this year.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on February 09, 2025, 11:49:26 AMDave, I totally agree with you . The Celtics played without Porzingas and they destroyed us, ( I assume you are a Knick fan as I am ). They will not get out of the East this year.
I am.
I have to agree with you, although I'm disappointed that they're not better. Last year I absolutely believe they would have made it to the ECF had their team not been so banged up (they made it to game seven of the second round as it was), and I felt like they got appreciably better in the offseason with Towns and Bridges added into the mix.
They haven't been bad per se, but they have definitely fallen short (to this point) of what I was hoping for.
I will say I think OG is one of the most underrated players in the league, and not having him out there is a game changer. I had the opportunity to attend a Knicks game earlier this season in amazing seats there near the floor, and I was focusing on OG a lot in an isolated way. He does a ton of things out there that you won't see in the box score but really help the team. I really hope he's not out too long.
But as I said earlier, having him last night wouldn't have made a difference. They were losing that game convincingly no matter what.
I just posted on the Rangers yesterday, so I figured I might as well post on the Knicks, who are much more relevant this year.
If I'm being brutally honest, which I try to be as often as possible, I'm disappointed with the Knicks relative to expectations. I had expectations that this team would be borderline championship caliber this year, and they just haven't been close to that. While their record is fine, they have been utterly helpless this year against good teams, unable to win even one game against a top team (in 23-24 they beat the Celts multiple times), and they unloaded the truckload of draft capital they had to bring in Towns and Bridges this year.
Admittedly, for much of the season they weren't all healthy at the same time. But what team is, and also how realistic is it that they'll all be healthy through the playoffs? And even if they are, they have played multiple games in this very recent stretch with everyone in the lineup, and it just hasn't been all that great.
This feels like the culmination of the build, too. I'm not sure what other improvements will be made at this point. This pretty much looks like the group, and they look to be capped at no better than a second round loss this year.
I will leave you with this question: is this year's team better than last year's? If so, what evidence is there of that? If not, how should we feel about that given we blew our wad of trade capital on this team?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 13, 2025, 06:03:46 AMI just posted on the Rangers yesterday, so I figured I might as well post on the Knicks, who are much more relevant this year.
If I'm being brutally honest, which I try to be as often as possible, I'm disappointed with the Knicks relative to expectations. I had expectations that this team would be borderline championship caliber this year, and they just haven't been close to that. While their record is fine, they have been utterly helpless this year against good teams, unable to win even one game against a top team (in 23-24 they beat the Celts multiple times), and they unloaded the truckload of draft capital they had to bring in Towns and Bridges this year.
Admittedly, for much of the season they weren't all healthy at the same time. But what team is, and also how realistic is it that they'll all be healthy through the playoffs? And even if they are, they have played multiple games in this very recent stretch with everyone in the lineup, and it just hasn't been all that great.
This feels like the culmination of the build, too. I'm not sure what other improvements will be made at this point. This pretty much looks like the group, and they look to be capped at no better than a second round loss this year.
I will leave you with this question: is this year's team better than last year's? If so, what evidence is there of that? If not, how should we feel about that given we blew our wad of trade capital on this team?
.
The long storied tradition of fading late in games and on back to backs has followed Thibs wherever he has gone. The higher level of injuries have followed him too.
It's kinda time to get a new coach.
In case someone needed an article to hammer it home even more, here is a pretty good one:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44221755/tom-thibodeau-heavy-minute-knicks-again
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 13, 2025, 08:32:36 AM.
The long storied tradition of fading late in games and on back to backs has followed Thibs wherever he has gone. The higher level of injuries have followed him too.
It's kinda time to get a new coach.
In case someone needed an article to hammer it home even more, here is a pretty good one:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44221755/tom-thibodeau-heavy-minute-knicks-again
Mixed feelings on this. The Knicks have had much more success under Thibs than under any coach since Jeff Van Gundy. That was a long, long time ago. And 13 other head coaches have had the job since Van Gundy before Thibs.
The knocks Thibs gets for overusing his starters sometimes feel a little unfair to me. The Knicks bench is a joke. Is that Thibs' fault or is it the front office's fault? Thibs' job is to win with what he has. And he has absolutely done that in this job. I have no doubt guys like Hart, Brunson, Towns, OG, etc would get less minutes if they had more bench guys who could actually play at a respectable (if not good) level. No other quality team in the NBA is this thin after the starting five. Why is that Thibs' fault?
I am more optimistic than most going forward. Two things, I think, count. First, Brunson's injury might have helped because the time off was needed. He takes a beating more than anyone else and there really is no good PG backup here. Second, I think Mitchell is a huge depth upgrade and hopefully stays healthy. Most playoff teams will shorten the bench and I think Thibs uses 7 guys and a 8th only for foul trouble.
For the last few weeks, it crossed my mind that the Knicks may have tanked to finish 4th which would changed the 2nd round matchup to Cleveland assuming they beat the Dameless Bucks. Even if they werent, the Pacers maybe had the same thought & lost winnable games.
What a huge fourth quarter tonight! Explosive stuff. KAT was a monster on the glass and defensively.
Epic, epic game. Towns was ridiculous late. Brunson back to back big games on the road too. Both of them. Tremendous stuff.
Really need to end this now on Tuesday night. If they are to have any shot whatsoever of being even competitive against the Celtics, they need some days off. These starters all play so many minutes as they have no bench.
They were lucky to win yesterday. Hart definately fouled Hardaway Jr. on the last shot and after the game it was admitted that refs made a mistake.
What a win tonight! I'll admit I'm shocked.
Anytime your opponent goes 15 for 60 from three point range you have to win that game. The Celts get so many offensive boards though that they can afford a night like that and still be in the game. The Brunson layup miss at the end of regulation was heartbreaking. I'm so glad he got bailed out because he was one of the main reasons they were even in that position.
OG is probably my favorite Knick. I love his cool demeanor and he just does so much out there on both ends of the floor. He can shoot, he has a great handle for his size, he throws his body around, and he plays big time defense. Just such a good player.
The Knicks only shot 54.8% from the free throw line. That just has to be better if they want to win more games. You can't be that bad there against this team. The Celts won't shoot 25% from three again.
I'm elated about this win. I was hoping to just have one of the two games in Boston be close. To actually win one is huge.
MAGICAL stuff tonight!
Funnily, I actually think the Knicks can play a lot better than they played tonight. Weirdly it was far from their best, despite the result. They were quite sloppy for much of the game.
Obviously, the Celtics are a complete mess right now and can also play much, much better than they have in these two games. That goes without saying. They were awful.
When the Celtics were inbounding the ball down by 1 with 24.2 seconds left in the game, I was really worried. I thought they would milk the clock down to almost zero and end up with Tatum or Brown on the line for two with 1.3 seconds left or something. When Tatum ended up with an uncontested dunk with 18 seconds left, I was actually ok with that. I don't think the Knicks let him score on purpose, but if they did it wasn't the absolute worst idea.
Brunson was very clutch with those two free throws to go back up by one. I can't even imagine that kind of pressure.
As strong a position as the Knicks appear to be in, this is FAR from over. A loss in game three would swing the momentum big time. The Celts have been much better on the road than at home for whatever reason. They can easily win game three. The Knicks would still be in a pretty solid overall position if that happened, but things would feel different.
I'd rather not even mess around with that. Just get up 3-0 on Saturday please.
Great night. I was flicking back and forth between the Yankees and Knicks. Both teams were getting beat, and it looked like it was going to be a downer night. The Yankees escaped a based loaded 10th inning, then hit a walk off sac fly. I flipped it over and the Knicks had come back...luckily, I was taping it and I could watch the comeback (and melt down by the Celtics) and win by one =D> =D> :dance:
This Knicks ride so far, is a bit reminiscent of the Giants 2007 run. Insomuch as we were underdogs against nearly every opponent, we played inspiring defense, and we had a Mr. Clutch handling the ball.
Please let the magic last till the same sweet ending as that magical run!!!
I've barely watched both series, especially these two games. EVERY time I flipped the channel to them something bad has happened almost immediately, as if on cue. They're tough mentally, and believe. Now The Monster has to roar. Summon the old Garden. The Willis/Clyde Garden. We have never had these effing bastards down 0-2 coming into our den.
The little guy is carrying the team on his little back.
Quote from: Bob In PA on May 08, 2025, 02:55:02 PMThe little guy is carrying the team on his little back.
He's been great no doubt, but I thought last night featured contributions from everyone at different times during the game. Towns was awesome early in the game and kept things close in the early going while others like Brunson and OG were quiet. Then Brunson stepped up later as did Bridges. Hart was also awesome last night and continues to be reminiscent of a 90s Knicks player, the type of guy you want on your team in the playoffs. Mitch had a really strong performance off the bench last night too. Deuce made some plays and brought some pop off the bench. I really thought everyone did something last night.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 08, 2025, 05:20:38 PMHe's been great no doubt, but I thought last night featured contributions from everyone at different times during the game. Towns was awesome early in the game and kept things close in the early going while others like Brunson and OG were quiet. Then Brunson stepped up later as did Bridges. Hart was also awesome last night and continues to be reminiscent of a 90s Knicks player, the type of guy you want on your team in the playoffs. Mitch had a really strong performance off the bench last night too. Deuce made some plays and brought some pop off the bench. I really thought everyone did something last night.
True dat...BUT...do you think the Knicks would be where they are at without JB? He's the "little engine that could" - he pulls the train, albeit, some very good pull-trains behind him
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 08, 2025, 05:50:05 PMTrue dat...BUT...do you think the Knicks would be where they are at without JB? He's the "little engine that could" - he pulls the train, albeit, some very good pull-trains behind him
Absolutely not. He is phenomenal. Best PG the Knicks have had since the days of Walt Clyde.
His step-back jumper is the stuff little guys are made of. Probably had to practice that all his life. Bob
Knicks are winning because of everyone. Not just Bernard King and others. Brunson is leader for sure but others really drive play at moments
Quote from: Philosophers on May 09, 2025, 04:48:09 AMKnicks are winning because of everyone. Not just Bernard King and others. Brunson is leader for sure but others really drive play at moments
Absolutely. OG is one of the best defensive players in the NBA and shuts down other teams' best player, and is becoming a big threat on the offense. Mikal has moments when he rises to the occasion of superstar (wish it was a little more often). Robinson has become a key player that has been the missing "paint general" (wish he'd spend every minute practicing free throws, but I digress), and Towns is Towns...one of the best shooting big men in the NBA. And what can you say about Hart - the "Energizer Bunny" who injects incredible energy (and a little chaos) into every game at a level that can trouble the opponents best game plans - and Deuce off the bench should be in line for 6th man of the year
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4t6HWSC/720.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I haven't seen either game. I'll be home in time for the game tomorrow but the Knicks are winning without me watching so maybe the trend will continue if I don't watch it.
That said, from the media reports, it seems like the feeling is that the Celtics lost the games more than the Knicks winning.
Quote from: nb587 on May 09, 2025, 09:30:26 AMI haven't seen either game. I'll be home in time for the game tomorrow but the Knicks are winning without me watching so maybe the trend will continue if I don't watch it.
That said, from the media reports, it seems like the feeling is that the Celtics lost the games more than the Knicks winning.
It's a little of both...Knicks never giving up and playing with extreme heart...and the Celtics getting intimidated and losing their mojo. But the really sweet part is that these two games were on Boston's home vaunted green and white checkers-style court. Thibs is also responsible for game planning that has thrown Boston for a loop, and without a doubt, the Knicks have gotten into the Celtics' head
Knicks are a 5.5 point underdog at home tomorrow. No respect! I hope that lights a fire.
It would have been fair to call game 2 for Boston a must-win, but game 3 truly is. If you go down 3-0 in the NBA you're done. Nobody has ever come back from that.
If the Celts win this game though, the Knicks are still in a solid place, but the tone will be different. I really think taking this game tomorrow is a big deal. I don't want it to become a more urgent situation in game 4 where we're facing the possibility of them tying it up and heading back home to Boston having won two in a row. We'd be a huge, huge underdog at that point.
If we lose tomorrow but then win game 4 on Monday, then that's perfectly fine, but I think the likelihood of winning game 4 goes down if we lose game 3. Once the Celts get their mojo back I don't see them losing it again. So the Knicks need to not allow them to get their mojo back. They need to step on their throats and just take Saturday's game and make this insurmountable for Boston.
Are the Celtics still the favorites to win the series?
Quote from: nb587 on May 09, 2025, 07:48:41 PMAre the Celtics still the favorites to win the series?
Vegas has the series as roughly a pick-em right now (give or take).
Well, that wasn't so hot...
If there is one major flaw with this team, it's Robinson's inability to put an arc on his foul shots and actually make a basket. He's as bad as Shaq. It's the elephant in the room. Opposing teams come in and say, "foul the crap out of Robinson"
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 11, 2025, 11:42:02 AMIf there is one major flaw with this team, it's Robinson's inability to put an arc on his foul shots and actually make a basket. He's as bad as Shaq. It's the elephant in the room. Opposing teams come in and say, "foul the crap out of Robinson"
I agree his free throw shooting is a major liability. I'm always amazed by pros who struggle with it to this type of a degree. I get not everyone can shoot 80% but every pro should be able to shoot 60%. Has he spent a full summer working on it?
Sadly, I wish that were the Knicks' only issue in this series, but it's not. The Celts are just a lot more talented. In games one and two, the Celtics completely self-destructed in truly spectacular, historic fashion, and even then we barely eked out wins in both of those games. Yesterday they were back to their normal selves, and it was completely non-competitive, right from the opening tip to the final buzzer.
I expect us to play with more intensity and discipline in game four, but the reality is if both teams play their best, the Celtics are going to beat us. It doesn't mean we're not good, because we are. We're a 51 win team and got by a fairly scrappy, hot Detroit team. We're good. The Celtics are great though. It's unfortunate we had to play them in the second round.
Here's to hoping they go cold again in game four.
What a beat down that was...yipes. I really can't stand the make or miss from three element today in the NBA. :boooo:
Quote from: spiderblue43 on May 12, 2025, 10:21:13 AMWhat a beat down that was...yipes. I really can't stand the make or miss from three element today in the NBA. :boooo:
Wasn't pretty, was it?
Just a complete ass-kickig right from the opening tip and right up to the closing buzzer.
I do expect a better effort from the Knicks tonight. They have to know that if they lose tonight, any realistic person would put their chances of winning the series at a very low level.
Will "a better effort" be enough to win? The truth is that it comes down to whether the Celts are hitting their shot or not. If both teams play at their very best, the Celts will win. They're the better team, period. We all know that. We need to bring our absolute best, and we need them to not be on fire from three this time. We can't have this Pritchard kid look like Steph Curry again.
Yup...live by the three, die by the three. That has been the common theme between the two teams so far. Boston has one of the best - if not thee best - three point shooting team in the NBA, and it's the reason they are the team to beat. However; they couldn't buy a three in the first two games; hence, died by the three. In game three, they couldn't miss; hence, lived by the three
I think it all comes down to how well the Knicks can shut down the game outside the arc :-??
These men take blow after blow and they JUST KEEP COMING at them! The Celtics don't need these kind of men in their lives! LET IT GO Celtics....Let it go!! :surrender:
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on May 13, 2025, 12:32:37 PMThese men take blow after blow and they JUST KEEP COMING at them! The Celtics don't need these kind of men in their lives! LET IT GO Celtics....Let it go!! :surrender:
I was waiting for someone to comment on last night's game. I couldn't believe it when I fired up the old PC this morning and the Knicks' thread was not on top of this page, with dozens of replies...WTF
Great game - Tatum out with a probable torn Achilles - Celtics are toast (and not of the town). Even if they had won, and Tatum was not hurt, this would have been the Celtics last hurrah as salary time is coming and they cannot possibly keep this team together...and throw in Tatum out for a year, and suddenly "poof", see ya Celtics, don't let the door hit you in the ass
I know this is a Knicks thread and didn't want to start a new thread but man... The look on Cooper Flaggs face when the Mavs got the 1st pick.. It looked like his family pet had just been murdered.
I was waiting for a report on Tatum's injury. He did indeed rupture his Achilles. Went into surgery today. Sucks for Boston, a big break for the Knicks. Hope they take advantage and put that 4th win away!
What a piss-poor effort in the second half by the Knicks tonight. Really dismal stuff. I assume they mailed it in and are just looking ahead to game six. If that's the case, then ok, fine. If this was actually a legit effort from them tonight, then that's not a good sign.
Brown plays better without Tatum... Celtics did a good job tonight on both ends of the floor. Knicks were staying right with them in the first half but then it really got away from the badly and there was absolutely no semblance of a comeback effort.
I think the game plan from the start was to get Brunson and Townes in foul trouble and take them out...and they did. Some of those fouls were the most ticky-tack fouls I've ever seen in a game where there is shoving, pushing, arming, hitting, pulling. And out of the blue, a "touch foul" on Brunson. Awful game and awful reffing
Erase that and onto game six. Just an awful game and effort.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 14, 2025, 09:41:11 PMWhat a piss-poor effort in the second half by the Knicks tonight. Really dismal stuff. I assume they mailed it in and are just looking ahead to game six. If that's the case, then ok, fine. If this was actually a legit effort from them tonight, then that's not a good sign.
Brown plays better without Tatum... Celtics did a good job tonight on both ends of the floor. Knicks were staying right with them in the first half but then it really got away from the badly and there was absolutely no semblance of a comeback effort.
I believe that Boston, in playing for their lives were motivated by "winning this one for Tatum"...that being said, I've never seen referee's who so blatantly favored one team than in this series. The Knicks have definitely played against the Celtics and the refs this entire series. Yes I know I sound myopic as H#ll but it's how I feel.
With all of those factors, plus OG, KAT and Brunson being banged up, I could see taking their foot off the throttle a bit in the 2nd half.
Last night was an amazing Knicks effort..all up this time. Great intensity from start to finish, clearly inspired by an insanely delirious, all-time Garden crowd.
Now a healthier Knicks team than last year gets another crack at the Pacers..an old rival to the fore again
Once more into the breach,..:
my dear friends ..
:ok:
Quite the night :nanner: :dance: :cheers:
Just an awesome night. Fans have had their share of stress and anxiety in this series, so it was nice to have a game that was just enjoyable and relaxing to watch. Not that Celts fans didn't have stress too, but they just won a championship. I'm sympathetic to Tatum personally, because that situation sucks and you hate to see that with any athlete on any team, but I have no sympathy to Boston fans about losing, as they are spoiled rotten with this franchise as well as the Pats. This night belonged to New York, and it was very well deserved.
Finals or bust. That's all I'll say.
Indiana is a daunting opponent. They're deep, they have some potent scorers both in the starting lineup and of the bench, they play underrated defense, and they have a top notch coach. This team is no joke. I expect this series to go to six or seven, regardless of who wins. I think it's going to be a flat out battle.
Indiana has been a thorn in the Knicks' side forever. Sorta like the Cowboys with the Giants. Maybe this crushing of the vaunted Celtics (a team the Knicks couldn't beat all year) will be the fire under them, to steam roll the Pacers. I can wish
Hearing a lot of smoke that Yannis is determined to get to the Knicks, any truth to this? Some questioned if the mavs would trade Flagg for Yannis, but man if the knicks got Yannis..
Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 17, 2025, 02:07:14 PMHearing a lot of smoke that Yannis is determined to get to the Knicks, any truth to this? Some questioned if the mavs would trade Flagg for Yannis, but man if the knicks got Yannis..
It would be pretty amazing but the Knicks are incredibly cap-tight now. Just no way to do that unless they moved serious contracts out. They had flexibility going into this year, both in terms of trade capital and cap room, but they kind of used all of it up on the Towns and Bridges trades/deal. So while Giannis isn't impossible per se, there is no way they could add him without moving other contracts off the books, and doing the latter requires someone to want to take them. So would have to be some sort of three way trade I guess.
I suspect the Knicks have now done well enough that they're probably not dying to make big changes to the team at this point. But you never know.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 17, 2025, 02:07:14 PMHearing a lot of smoke that Yannis is determined to get to the Knicks, any truth to this? Some questioned if the mavs would trade Flagg for Yannis, but man if the knicks got Yannis..
Its the silly season( on this case, people are probably making stuff up
Massive choke job. Just complete incompetence and chaos in the last two minutes and overtime.
I think the knicks just started getting D'd up along with the physicality and smaller rotation got them a bit gassed, the pacers are like a chainsaw through warm butter when they get going. I would have loved to see haliburton do the choke sign then choke in overtime. Bummed it didnt end up happening
Since 1996 in the playoffs teams with a 14+ point lead with 2:50 to go were 994-0. Of course the Knicks make that 994-1.
Catastrophic loss.
If they lose a close series this game will for sure go down as one of the great Knicks chokes of all time. Right up there with the Reggie Miller game.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 22, 2025, 12:04:25 AMCatastrophic loss.
If they lose a close series this game will for sure go down as one of the great Knicks chokes of all time. Right up there with the Reggie Miller game.
Yes. Just mind boggling stuff..the Knicks bumbling..lost in defense the final two minutes..the refs missing a goaltend..and the Pacers hitting unconscious shots...the ghost of Reggie Miller.
Never had it ever happened..blow that big a lead under three minutes like that. Throw the brick moment times ten
:boooo: :what:
Quote from: spiderblue43 on May 22, 2025, 08:25:58 AMYes. Just mind boggling stuff..the Knicks bumbling..lost in defense the final two minutes..the refs missing a goaltend..and the Pacers hitting unconscious shots...the ghost of Reggie Miller.
Never had it ever happened..blow that big a lead under three minutes like that. Throw the brick moment times ten
:boooo: :what:
The Knicks should have almost been willing to just go 1-on-1 in the paint in the last few minutes instead of trying to double, but there's also something to be said for the fact that if Nesmith goes just 5-6 from three in the final 5 minutes, the Knicks win the game. Not to mention the crazy bounce on the Halliburton step back at the buzzer.
Never play, "not to lose" at the end of a game, play to kill til the clock runs out. Seen it all my life. A team has a comfortable lead, then switches play style to, "not to lose", or in football, "prevent defense". Not a happy fan this morning
Fouling to prevent the three point shot with fourteen seconds left was a joke. If it was four seconds, that makes sense. But fourteen?
This is why basketball is a joke. Keep fouling if you are way down so your opposition can make two points at best, and often one because legs are tired at the end and the free throws are so important... and keep hoisting threes. At the end of the game, if you foul enough, you should at minimum get three free throws to make two, like it used to be. If not three and you could make all three.
I'm always nervous with games and even i was sure the Knicks would win. That's how much this was a collapse. But still, a lot of this is due to the three point rules. And that the line has to move back. Basketball is very hard to watch right now with one person driving and everyone else behind the three point line.
New York KnuckleHeads is more apt. Incredibly stupid loss all on them..players .coach..
Absolutely on a par with 2002 Niners..1997 Vikings..1978 Eagles
AWful..
:surrender: :what: