Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on January 04, 2025, 08:06:23 AMLeon Rose did not appear initially to most like he wod be an effective head of Knicks Operations because he did not follow the usual path to this position.  What he did prior to the Knicks was create a kick a$$ organization of representing players.  He was a dominant force.  The qualities of building a great org are what we need our Giants GM to possess.  Maybe we need to look elsewhere than all the assistant GMs looking to be a GM should the Giants fire JS.

Bravo to the blueprint Rose created for the Knicks.  He had a plan.  Good management has real value to an org.

He had a plan and he remained disciplined to it, and unlike the GM of the Rangers I don't get the sense that he gets bullied around at all by Dolan. Rose showed remarkable patience and discipline in building this team over the past 3-4 years to what it is today. His big moves (Brunson, the Towns trade, OG, etc) have all been great, and his smaller moves like Hart have also been awesome for the most part.

The Knicks need depth, and everyone knows that. I have to check when the deadline is, but I don't think it's for a couple months. So I'm not super concerned, but we do need 1-2 guys who can come in and give you 8-14 serviceable minutes.

Last night the story of the game was the three. The Thunder shot over 50% from behind the arc. We were in the 20s. Brunson was 0 for 5 from three. Apart from this disparity between the two teams, I thought the Knicks played great. They were great on the boards, they were making defensive plays, they were scoring without too much trouble against the best defense in the league, and they were just making their presence felt physically. It's never fun to lose, especially when you're in the third quarter and you feel like you can win, but I am pretty positive on what I saw last night and I'm extremely positive overall. With a couple more tweaks and with a healthy Mitch, I think this team can give a series to anyone in the league. No chance you can find a post of me saying that at any time in the last couple years.

They need a banger who is willing to throw an elbow or two while warring in the lane.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:26:53 AMHe had a plan and he remained disciplined to it, and unlike the GM of the Rangers I don't get the sense that he gets bullied around at all by Dolan. Rose showed remarkable patience and discipline in building this team over the past 3-4 years to what it is today. His big moves (Brunson, the Towns trade, OG, etc) have all been great, and his smaller moves like Hart have also been awesome for the most part.

The Knicks need depth, and everyone knows that. I have to check when the deadline is, but I don't think it's for a couple months. So I'm not super concerned, but we do need 1-2 guys who can come in and give you 8-14 serviceable minutes.

Last night the story of the game was the three. The Thunder shot over 50% from behind the arc. We were in the 20s. Brunson was 0 for 5 from three. Apart from this disparity between the two teams, I thought the Knicks played great. They were great on the boards, they were making defensive plays, they were scoring without too much trouble against the best defense in the league, and they were just making their presence felt physically. It's never fun to lose, especially when you're in the third quarter and you feel like you can win, but I am pretty positive on what I saw last night and I'm extremely positive overall. With a couple more tweaks and with a healthy Mitch, I think this team can give a series to anyone in the league. No chance you can find a post of me saying that at any time in the last couple years.

They were missing Duece last night who gives them major minutes off the bench & 3 point shots.  On the other hand, Thunder was missing Holmgren, a very talented big.  I agree with you on the need for depth although Thibs will get alot out of Psyne & Shamet.  I also agree on the need for a rim protector especially for when Robinson gets hurt.  They supposedly like a big young guy on the Pistons who will probably be more available if & when Pistons drop out if the play in.  Their losing Iver hurts them & maybe helps us.  His name is Stewart

Quote from: nb587 on January 04, 2025, 01:47:46 PMThey were missing Duece last night who gives them major minutes off the bench & 3 point shots.  On the other hand, Thunder was missing Holmgren, a very talented big.  I agree with you on the need for depth although Thibs will get alot out of Psyne & Shamet.  I also agree on the need for a rim protector especially for when Robinson gets hurt.  They supposedly like a big young guy on the Pistons who will probably be more available if & when Pistons drop out if the play in.  Their losing Iver hurts them & maybe helps us.  His name is Stewart

Great intel, thanks. I wasn't aware of that about Stewart.

Agree about them missing Holmgren being meaningful although I think you can argue that the absence of Deuce + Robinson was at least as impactful to us.

I'm not suggesting the Knicks are better than or even on par with the Thunder, but I think last night showed the gap isn't that wide. That same Knicks team with Deuce, Mitch, and 1-2 other bodies is going to be a tough out for anyone in the league in a 7 game series. It's a big step up from last year. The starting five is championship material. Obviously you need more than 5 to win a title, but getting the 5 right is the hardest and most expensive part.

The game against Thunder is EVERYTHNG a true fan wants: hard fought quality basketball

Sure, I wanted the Knicks to win, but I'm also a fan of quality ball, even when my favorite team comes up short. We need Mitch back, and move KAT to the 4 spot. My only worry is that it will take Mitch a dozen games before he gets in rhythm with players that he's never played with before. Once that happens, the Knicks will be a tough team to beat...with the caveat: Can Mitch stay healthy? If he gets hurt again, try to trade him for Hartenstein...lol (they should have traded Mitch during off season and freed up money to keep Hartenstein...one of Rose/Thibs only mistake IMO)

I'm not terribly worried about depth. Deuce is fantastic, and Kolic was an absolute steal in the draft (Brunson 2.0), Payne is pretty solid, Precious gives quality minutes, when Shamet gets hot, he can shoot the lights out, Dadiet just needs some seasoning, and of course, once Mitch is back, our best bench player becomes Josh. After years of crying about not having a decent PG, we suddenly have a plethora of options...all of them, top-notch. I can't wait to see Kolic in a few years

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 04, 2025, 06:15:27 PMThe game against Thunder is EVERYTHNG a true fan wants: hard fought quality basketball

Sure, I wanted the Knicks to win, but I'm also a fan of quality ball, even when my favorite team comes up short. We need Mitch back, and move KAT to the 4 spot. My only worry is that it will take Mitch a dozen games before he gets in rhythm with players that he's never played with before. Once that happens, the Knicks will be a tough team to beat...with the caveat: Can Mitch stay healthy? If he gets hurt again, try to trade him for Hartenstein...lol (they should have traded Mitch during off season and freed up money to keep Hartenstein...one of Rose/Thibs only mistake IMO)

I'm not terribly worried about depth. Deuce is fantastic, and Kolic was an absolute steal in the draft (Brunson 2.0), Payne is pretty solid, Precious gives quality minutes, when Shamet gets hot, he can shoot the lights out, Dadiet just needs some seasoning, and of course, once Mitch is back, our best bench player becomes Josh. After years of crying about not having a decent PG, we suddenly have a plethora of options...all of them, top-notch. I can't wait to see Kolic in a few years

You may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:08:33 PMYou may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.

The biggest problem on the Knicks is depth and the biggest depth problem is that they can't rely on Mitchell to be healthy through the playoffs.  What he brings to the table is exactly what they need but I dont see Leon Rose, after making so many high profile moves, putting so much on the line depending on someone who consistently misses the amount of time that us Mitchell.  I would be shocked if they dont make the move for Stewart or someone like him

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2025, 08:08:33 PMYou may like those players in terms of what you see them developing into, but in terms of our bench right now (and for the rest of this season), it's definitely on the light side compared to other championship contenders.

Fair enough. I think the elephant in the room (as far as Thib's confidence in his bench) is that the starting 5 is logging in more minutes than any other team...and by quite a margin over the second place team for starters' minutes. That's worrisome, because it's a long season and the problems with overuse of players shows up towards the end of the season when the body starts breaking down

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 04, 2025, 11:47:58 PMFair enough. I think the elephant in the room (as far as Thib's confidence in his bench) is that the starting 5 is logging in more minutes than any other team...and by quite a margin over the second place team for starters' minutes. That's worrisome, because it's a long season and the problems with overuse of players shows up towards the end of the season when the body starts breaking down

Totally agree.

The bottom line is is the bench isn't good enough to begin with, and right now you have the only two legitimately good bench players we have (Mitch and Deuce) both out. Thibs definitely overworks his starters when he doesn't have confidence in the bench. I can't really blame him.

It will get better. I'm not happier with last night's loss than anyone else, but until they get more depth they're not going to be a dominant team with the type of record that teams like the Thunder and Cavs have.

We need Deuce and Mitch back, and we need other guys. Guys like Kolek etc may be players of tomorrow but they're not going to play key roles in a championship drive of 2024/25.

One think that's great about the Knicks is they have a nice window to work with here. Nobody in the starting five is even 30 yet. Rose has done an awesome job assembling a championship caliber starting five without bringing in 33-35 year old types. We just need some more depth.

I wouldn't say I'm in panic mode about the Knicks, but I am definitely disappointed at this point, relative to my expectations. I always knew the Knicks had bench/depth issues, but I still would have expected them to have gelled and been playing better by the second half of January. Losing to teams like Detroit and Minnesota at MSG, last night in pretty decisive fashion, along with a number of other would-be inferior teams, has been really frustrating.

Our defense is poor. The depth is a real problem. Yes, getting back Mitch will help, but let's be honest - with Mitch, once he comes back from his standard three month injury, it's usually just a matter of weeks or even days until he's seriously hurt again. He is supposed to be back in February. I'd seriously consider playing him for a month or so, then putting him back on ice, and then maybe activating him again about five days before the start of the playoffs. He's of no use to us if he's not healthy for the playoffs.

Again, while thing are not a disaster, this has been disappointing. I was expecting the Knicks to be better than last year's team with these improvements they have made. That is simply not the case though. Last year's team, to this point at least, was clearly better. The defense was much better and the overall flow and teamwork was better as well.

Definitely concerning.

Quote from: files58 on January 04, 2025, 01:19:22 PMThey need a banger who is willing to throw an elbow or two while warring in the lane.

Charles Barkley or Anthony Mason

I understand OG is out and Mitch still hasn't come back yet, but games like tonight make me think this team still isn't all that close.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 08, 2025, 10:55:02 PMI understand OG is out and Mitch still hasn't come back yet, but games like tonight make me think this team still isn't all that close.

Dave, I totally agree with you . The Celtics played without Porzingas and they destroyed us, ( I assume you are a Knick fan as I am ). They will not get out of the East this year.

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on February 09, 2025, 11:49:26 AMDave, I totally agree with you . The Celtics played without Porzingas and they destroyed us, ( I assume you are a Knick fan as I am ). They will not get out of the East this year.

I am.

I have to agree with you, although I'm disappointed that they're not better. Last year I absolutely believe they would have made it to the ECF had their team not been so banged up (they made it to game seven of the second round as it was), and I felt like they got appreciably better in the offseason with Towns and Bridges added into the mix.

They haven't been bad per se, but they have definitely fallen short (to this point) of what I was hoping for.

I will say I think OG is one of the most underrated players in the league, and not having him out there is a game changer. I had the opportunity to attend a Knicks game earlier this season in amazing seats there near the floor, and I was focusing on OG a lot in an isolated way. He does a ton of things out there that you won't see in the box score but really help the team. I really hope he's not out too long.

But as I said earlier, having him last night wouldn't have made a difference. They were losing that game convincingly no matter what.