https://x.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1855267713788125508
He sure did turn his career around. He had a couple of good years in LA and then went downhill. Maybe Dan Campbell had something to do with it.
As much as we know, as fans and bystanders, but Campbell has really turned that entire franchise around. I would take him in a heartbeat to coach MY team.
Quote from: LennG on November 09, 2024, 11:37:03 AMAs much as we know, as fans and bystanders, but Campbell has really turned that entire franchise around. I would take him in a heartbeat to coach MY team.
I wanted him years ago but they hired the smartest guy in the room.
I suppose that the Lions have started 7-1 may be surprising to some but I'm not shocked that it's with Jared Goff behind Center given that he went 42-27 with 2 Pro Bowls in his 5 seasons with the Rams. And now after a bad first year with the Lions, he has since gone 28-14 and probably will make his 4th Pro Bowl. So, no I'm not shocked in the least.
Cheers!
Sean McVay :P
The Detroit Lions. I think we forget Goff was a late addition to the trade and was a stop gap until they found a new QB. They were able to get Hendon Hooker in the 3rd round of the 2023 draft, after his ACL tear against South Carolina roughly two years ago now. Some thought Hooker's success was linked to having Jalin Hyatt and Cedric Tillman to throw to. Until recently (Tillman), it was looking like we all got that backwards as Hyatt and Tillman continued to be disappointments for the Giants and Browns, respectively.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on November 10, 2024, 07:26:00 AMThe Detroit Lions. I think we forget Goff was a late addition to the trade and was a stop gap until they found a new QB. They were able to get Hendon Hooker in the 3rd round of the 2023 draft, after his ACL tear against South Carolina roughly two years ago now. Some thought Hooker's success was linked to having Jalin Hyatt and Cedric Tillman to throw to. Until recently (Tillman), it was looking like we all got that backwards as Hyatt and Tillman continued to be disappointments for the Giants and Browns, respectively.
Hooker hasn't exactly excelled, either. When the Lions came to Giants camp, he was the third-string quarterback and looked like a third-string quarterback.
Not shocked at Goff's current success given he went to a Super Bowl previously. More surprised at how well the Lions have put together a really good roster.
Maybe I am surprised he is completing 75% of his passes through half a season. But given he has thrown for basically the same # of yards as Jones, I don't think he is throwing it deep much.
I had wanted Goff on the Giants
Guys - come on. Look at the Lions success in drafting over the past 7 years. Way more huge successes over that time. Goff has been a great turnaround/success story but they have great talent everywhere plus a good HC leader and a fantastic OC in Johnson.
He was always a really good quarterback, who for whatever reason didn't get along with McVey. In his four seasons with the Rams he went to the pro bowl twice and guided them to a Super Bowl. I wish there was someone stupid enough to trade us a quarterback that good.
Goff was a 2x Pro Bowler before moving to Det. Even his two down years (2020 and 2021) were still better than average, and on par with other Pro Bowl caliber QBs; they all have a few years not equal to thier better years. Nevertheless, his 17-game averages have been fairly consistent:
2017 (Los Angeles Rams): Averaged 4,316 yards, 32 TDs, 8 INTs, with a passer rating around 100.5.
2018 (Rams): Increased his averages to about 4,981 yards, 34 TDs, 13 INTs, and a 101.1 rating.
2019 (Rams): Averages slightly dropped to 4,922 yards, 27 TDs, 20 INTs, with an 86.5 rating.
2020 (Rams): Ended with 4,482 yards, 23 TDs, 15 INTs, and a 90.0 rating.
2021 (Detroit Lions): Posted about 3,950 yards, 23 TDs, 10 INTs, with a 91.5 rating.
2022 (Lions): Averaged 4,438 yards, 29 TDs, 7 INTs, achieving a 99.3 rating.
2023 (Lions): Averaged approximately 4,575 yards, 30 TDs, 12 INTs, with a 97.9 rating�
Goff has always been an underappreciated QB.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 10, 2024, 12:18:07 PMGoff was a 2x Pro Bowler before moving to Det. Even his two down years (2020 and 2021) were still better than average, and on par with other Pro Bowl caliber QBs; they all have a few years not equal to thier better years. Nevertheless, his 17-game averages have been fairly consistent:
2017 (Los Angeles Rams): Averaged 4,316 yards, 32 TDs, 8 INTs, with a passer rating around 100.5.
2018 (Rams): Increased his averages to about 4,981 yards, 34 TDs, 13 INTs, and a 101.1 rating.
2019 (Rams): Averages slightly dropped to 4,922 yards, 27 TDs, 20 INTs, with an 86.5 rating.
2020 (Rams): Ended with 4,482 yards, 23 TDs, 15 INTs, and a 90.0 rating.
2021 (Detroit Lions): Posted about 3,950 yards, 23 TDs, 10 INTs, with a 91.5 rating.
2022 (Lions): Averaged 4,438 yards, 29 TDs, 7 INTs, achieving a 99.3 rating.
2023 (Lions): Averaged approximately 4,575 yards, 30 TDs, 12 INTs, with a 97.9 rating�
Goff has always been an underappreciated QB.
The trade showed that the entire league (otherwise the Rams would have traded him to another team making a better offer), as well as the team trading him away, didn't think highly of him.
The trade
The Lions received Goff, a third-round pick in 2021, and first-round picks in 2022 and 2023. The Rams received Stafford.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 10, 2024, 01:32:20 PMThe trade showed that the entire league (otherwise the Rams would have traded him to another team making a better offer), as well as the team trading him away, didn't think highly of him.
The trade
The Lions received Goff, a third-round pick in 2021, and first-round picks in 2022 and 2023. The Rams received Stafford.
What does the trade have to do with my opinion, which has been consistent for years? Also, the trade also proves the reverse. Apparently, a team thought he was good enough to trade for, including giving up a 1st round pick.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 10, 2024, 01:40:05 PMWhat does the trade have to do with my opinion, which has been consistent for years? Also, the trade also proves the reverse. Apparently, a team thought he was good enough to trade for, including giving up a 1st round pick.
You don't appear to understand the trade. The Rams gave the Lions a first-round pick for a 30-something Matt Stafford. They also threw in Goff, and pundits speculated that the third-rounder was thrown in because the Lions were taking Goff's salary off the Rams' hands.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 10, 2024, 01:42:25 PMYou don't appear to understand the trade. The Rams gave the Lions a first-round pick for a 30-something Matt Stafford. They also threw in Goff, and pundits speculated that the third-rounder was thrown in because the Lions were taking Goff's salary off the Rams' hands.
That's fair, but still doesn't negate the response to your query. You asked if we were surprised; I'm not surprised...I've always believed Goff was a good QB and the data supports that supposition.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 10, 2024, 01:54:23 PMThat's fair, but still doesn't negate the response to your query. You asked if we were surprised; I'm not surprised...I've always believed Goff was a good QB and the data supports that supposition.
So if the "data supports that supposition," one needs to believe that none of the 32 teams in the NFL was capable of analyzing said data. Otherwise, he would have had more trade value.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 10, 2024, 02:03:44 PMSo if the "data supports that supposition," one needs to believe that none of the 32 teams in the NFL was capable of analyzing said data. Otherwise, he would have had more trade value.
Your reasoning is flawed. Not all 32 teams showed interest in Goff, nor did each team have a franchise quarterback available to trade. Even if they did, we cannot be certain that Los Angeles would have pursued anyone other than Stafford. Therefore, it remains unclear how the other 31 teams valued Goff. In this situation, both teams were right.
IMO, Goff has always been a good QB and provided data that supports that supposition.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 10, 2024, 02:24:52 PMYour reasoning is flawed. Not all 32 teams showed interest in Goff, nor did each team have a franchise quarterback available to trade. Even if they did, we cannot be certain that Los Angeles would have pursued anyone other than Stafford. Therefore, it remains unclear how the other 31 teams valued Goff. In this situation, both teams were right.
IMO, Goff has always been a good QB and provided data that supports that supposition.
Your assumptions are badly flawed. The Rams needed to trade away Goff to free up the salary cap to take on Stafford. The Rams could have just as easily made the Goff trade separately with another team.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 10, 2024, 02:26:56 PMYour assumptions are badly flawed. The Rams needed to trade away Goff to free up the salary cap to take on Stafford. The Rams could have just as easily made the Goff trade separately with another team.
You're confused. I didn't make any assumptions; I merely pointed out the flaw in your reasoning. You, on the other hand, are the one making assumptions—such as the notion that Detroit would have gone through with the trade for Stafford even without Goff. Do you have any evidence to support that assumption?
Quote from: kingm56 on November 10, 2024, 02:34:18 PMYou're confused. I didn't make any assumptions; I merely pointed out the flaw in your reasoning. You, on the other hand, are the one making assumptions—such as the notion that Detroit would have gone through with the trade for Stafford even without Goff. Do you have any evidence to support that assumption?
The problem was there was no "flaw" in my reason (with the exception of your odd perceptions). To make your argument that my reasoning was flawed, you have to use the assumptions you denied making.
As for your efforts to rewrite history and the perception of the trade, here is one of literally dozens of trade breakdowns at the time that all essentially said the same thing
QuoteJared Goff deal implications
The Lions undoubtedly did the Rams a favor by taking Goff's deal off their plate. It almost certainly got the Lions more draft capital in return, though, which is what they are more interested in, since this is a rebuild for the future. Eating cap for the next two years is worth it to them if it means more young players on rookie deals. But how much cap, exactly, are they eating?
The Rams were in a situation where they were going to have to eat cap hits of $35, $33, and $32.5 million over the next three seasons with Goff, and cutting him would have only made matters worse. Instead, they'll be assuming a $22.2 million cap hit by trading him, earning $12.75 million in cap space in the process.
https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2022/12/13/23507491/rams-lions-matthew-stafford-jared-goff-trade
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 10, 2024, 02:42:23 PMThe problem was there was no "flaw" in my reason (with the exception of your odd perceptions). To make your argument that my reasoning was flawed, you have to use the assumptions you denied making.
As for your efforts to rewrite history and the perception of the trade, here is one of literally dozens of trade breakdowns at the time that all essentially said the same thing
https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2022/12/13/23507491/rams-lions-matthew-stafford-jared-goff-trade
One last time, do you have ANY data to suggest that Det would have executed the trade for Stafford without Goff? If you do, I will concede your point.
You provided some obscure quote from an unsourced pundit, which doesn't relate to how the other 31 team's valued Goff, or if Det would have executed the trade without a QB they valued.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 10, 2024, 02:46:13 PMOne last time, do you have ANY data to suggest that Det would have executed the trade for Stafford without Goff? If you do, I will concede your point.
You provided some obscure quote from an unsourced pundit, which doesn't relate to how the other 31 team's valued Goff.
You are the one GUILTY of attacking me and calling me "intellectually dishonest." If you are not guilty of accusing me of your crimes, you can provide proof that the Lions would only make the trade if Goff was included. I have provided proof that Detroit considered Goff a favor to take his salary cap hit off the Rams.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 10, 2024, 02:55:54 PMYou are the one GUILTY of attacking me and calling me "intellectually dishonest." If you are not guilty of accusing me of your crimes, you can provide proof that the Lions would only make the trade if Goff was included. I have provided proof that Detroit considered Goff a favor to take his salary cap hit off the Rams.
You're the one making assumptions about how Det and the other 31 teams valued Goff; I'm simply asking for data to support the former. If don't have it, perhaps Det placed a very high value on Goff, which led to them trading thier all-time leader in passing to secure his services.
Regardless, even at the time of the trade, I thought Goff was a Pro Bowl caliber QB, because that's exactly who he proved to be in his first 30 games. I explicitly stated it was a good trade for both teams...
Quote from: kingm56 on November 10, 2024, 03:12:33 PMYou're the one making assumptions about how Det and the other 31 teams valued Goff;
That's not an "assumption". Much like Parcell's famous quote, a player's worth to the NFL is what another team is willing to give to that player. At that point, with Goff's salary, taking him was considered trade compensation, not payment