(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gg7_XFCW4AEhHgN?format=jpg&name=large)
https://x.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1877718873824170083
If this really happened this way, they need to go ASAP.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Why would players be present with a GM having contract negotiations or things of the like?
I am not sure I believe this one
If true, it is certainly a problem just doesn't seem believable to me
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 10, 2025, 09:34:58 AMWhy would players be present with a GM having contract negotiations or things of the like?
I am not sure I believe this one
If true, it is certainly a problem just doesn't seem believable to me
The report sounds like it's between Schoen and an agent. I don't believe the player was present.
As was reported, pay cuts during the season are highly unusual. I appreciate that when a GM asks a player to take a pay cut (this is usually done in the offseason), a GM needs to be prepared to release the player, or no player would ever say yes (if there is no consequence for saying no). It sounds, from the report, that Schoen was overly aggressive and rude, which doesn't really serve Schoen or the Giants well. As to why Schoen decided to cut a player's pay midseason, I have no clue.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2025, 09:38:34 AMThe report sounds like it's between Schoen and an agent. I don't believe the player was present.
As was reported, pay cuts during the season are highly unusual. I appreciate that when a GM asks a player to take a pay cut (this is usually done in the offseason), a GM needs to be prepared to release the player, or no player would ever say yes (if there is no consequence for saying no). It sounds, from the report, that Schoen was overly aggressive and rude, which doesn't really serve Schoen or the Giants well. As to why Schoen decided to cut a player's pay midseason, I have no clue.
I get all that, its just aside from McCloud sharing his own words with teammates, I dont see how "multiple players" could report it, although I suppose it could be overheard.
For Schoens sake I hope this isnt true
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 10, 2025, 09:41:44 AMI get all that, its just aside from McCloud sharing his own words with teammates, I dont see how "multiple players" could report it, although I suppose it could be overheard.
For Schoens sake I hope this isnt true
If multiple players are saying it, it is reasonable to suggest (true or not) that is the reputation Schoen has with players and, presumably, agents. While most deals ultimately come down to dollars, reputation and people skills still matter in terms of negations and signings. Agents will tend to steer their favored clients from teams where they don't trust the GM, don't like the GM, or don't feel their client will be treated fairly.
https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1877729427515224497
I thought it was a penny pinching move at the time and the approach was wrong.
Hope Schoen has taken this as a learning moment. The optics aren't fantastic.
That said, I think it'll have little to no bearing on being able to recruit players.
I'm assuming the industry now sees Schoen as a lame duck, so there will be more stories like this as agents try to leverage against his reputation and perceived weaknesses. The McCloud story is a bad look for Schoen but the bigger issue to me is whether it snowballs moving forward.
Players want two things. Where the boundaries are and the truth. Seems like JS/BD failed on both.
Terrible look for the Giants organization
Who or what are the multiple sources?
Quote from: Giant Jim on January 10, 2025, 01:50:40 PMWho or what are the multiple sources?
Best guess
McCloud is close to many of the players, so it could have been second hand from players that he told the story to (no doubt the agent shared with McCloud how his discussions went)
A second possible source was McCloud's agent
I will raise my hand and admit that I got Joe Schoen spectacularly wrong. I was very high on him when he was hired. I really felt like the Giants got someone who understood the various tenets of team building and understood positional value, the modern game, and just generally how to make tough decisions. He seemed to be a key figure in the recent rise of the Bills, who, prior to several years ago, were perhaps the biggest NFL doormats of the 21st century to this point. In various interviews and press conferences I found him to be saying all the right things. Turns out I couldn't have been more wrong.
The only break I'll give myself is I did say things like "the proof will of course be in the pudding", which it always is, but I definitely thought we had an ace young GM when he was hired, and I felt vindicated in that view after the 2022 season.
I've heard that McCloud's agent is his brother and Nick is his only client. If true it's something to keep in mind when evaluating the veracity of the story. Furthermore, I remember when JS was excoriated for how he handled the Leonard Williams situation. Then he was too considerate now he's a $cumbag.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. IMO, Pat Leonard is a $hit stirrer
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on January 10, 2025, 04:10:18 PMI've heard that McCloud's agent is his brother and Nick is his only client. If true it's something to keep in mind when evaluating the veracity of the story. Furthermore, I remember when JS was excoriated for how he handled the Leonard Williams situation. Then he was too considerate now he's a $cumbag.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. IMO, Pat Leonard is a $hit stirrer
Actually, I don't think you need the word "stirrer" in that statement to be correct.
Joe Banner -20 Year NFL President and CEO with Eagles and Browns. Former ESPN analyst
@JoeBanner13
ยท
1h
I have tweeting about how Schoen treats people and the problems it caused in the locker room for two years. Don't know why it hasn't been a big story.
@Rosehill Jimmy and
@Giant Obsession This report came from ESPN's Jordan Raanan, not Pat Leonard
I will also say I had heard references to the McCloud termination in terms that suggest it didn't go down well before this. The only thing new is that we were given details
Dan Duggan confirms the report
his is a thorough account of the dysfunction of this season. Told you the McCloud situation was a bad look at the time without the juicy details. To everyone arguing he's not a good player, you're totally missing the point. That anecdote is emblematic of Schoen's approach to negotiations. If you want an example of a better player, Julian Love isn't in Seattle making the Pro Bowl if there wasn't such a hard-line stance in negotiations with him.
The other big theme here is communication (or the lack thereof). It's something that has been a major issue. Players don't know where they stand because there isn't clear communication. Pick from a ton of examples: the Lock/DeVito juggling, the Ezeudu swing tackle/buried/guard arc, Simmons re-signing believing he'd have a role and not playing a snap some games. Plans change, but it hurts morale/buy-in when there isn't direct communication to explain the decisions
https://x.com/dduggan21/status/1878084367353889029?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
A few thoughts. First, winning takes care of everything. If the team wins, all of the negatives disappear. Second, we really don't know what happens with these negotiations; no one from the Giants has weighed in which is how it should be. So, anything about this story should be taken with a grain of salt. Third, when Coughlin was coaching, especially in the beginning, people said no free agents would sign here because he was too tough. Never happened.
Last, people constantly bring up mistakes Schoen made especially early on. Was there really an expectation that a rookie GM would make no mistakes factoring in inheriting a clusterf... organization deeply in debt Cap wise and a meddling owner. He had 2 bad drafts but a third draft that looks to be pretty good. He's going in the right direction and I wouldn't spend a minute worrying about the McCloud story true or false or in between.