OL drives everything on O. Giants completely screwed the pooch having such a poor OL. This is our Achilles Heel. Fix this and even an average QB will punch above his weight class. Holes for a RB and time to throw make an offense go.
It's a problem, for sure. But I really don't like looking at things in such absolute terms. Because it's not a question of one thing being wrong.
Take Kansas for example. According to Pro Football Network, their O line are ranked 5th. However, for the last month they have been ranked 30th. (https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/) Combined with this ranking and they not received a grade above a C since week 12. Nevertheless, they've not lost a game.
In terms of Barkley - he has benefitted massively from a competent passing game (over 3500 yards, 24 TDs via 3 QBs) , a great line (contributing to 3,000 yards rushing and 29 TDs) and decent receivers.
Taken holistically, they are a threat everywhere.
The problem for the Giants is that they haven't had and don't have any of the threats outside of Nabers.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on January 20, 2025, 04:59:17 AMIt's a problem, for sure. But I really don't like looking at things in such absolute terms. Because it's not a question of one thing being wrong.
Take Kansas for example. According to Pro Football Network, their O line are ranked 5th. However, for the last month they have been ranked 30th. (https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/) Combined with this ranking and they not received a grade above a C since week 12. Nevertheless, they've not lost a game.
In terms of Barkley - he has benefitted massively from a competent passing game (over 3500 yards, 24 TDs via 3 QBs) , a great line (contributing to 3,000 yards rushing and 29 TDs) and decent receivers.
Taken holistically, they are a threat everywhere.
The problem for the Giants is that they haven't had and don't have any of the threats outside of Nabers.
You are right but average WRs can look great if an OL gives so much protection they can eventually get open. OL touches everyone on O.
Barkley deserves a lot of credit for what he accomplished yesterday and the season. Of course the Oline was a big asset, but he was on a mission this season. In a game with some of the worst field conditions he won that game for them.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 20, 2025, 07:42:22 AMYou are right but average WRs can look great if an OL gives so much protection they can eventually get open. OL touches everyone on O.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 20, 2025, 07:43:01 AMBarkley deserves a lot of credit for what he accomplished yesterday and the season. Of course the Oline was a big asset, but he was on a mission this season. In a game with some of the worst field conditions he won that game for them.
Ed,
Totally agree. The Eagles as a team last year rushed for 2109 yards with what was a better OL (because they had 1st ballot HOFer at center). Barkley could have eclipsed that himself this year and the team rushed for over 3000 yards. Almost a 50% leap as a team by adding him.
The Rams entire game plan revolved around stopping him and they couldn't yesterday.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 20, 2025, 08:11:38 AMEd,
Totally agree. The Eagles as a team last year rushed for 2109 yards with what was a better OL (because they had 1st ballot HOFer at center). Barkley could have eclipsed that himself this year and the team rushed for over 3000 yards. Almost a 50% leap as a team by adding him.
The Rams entire game plan revolved around stopping him and they couldn't yesterday.
He allowed himself to be taken out of a game and rest a game for the good of the team. His loss as a leader left a huge void for the Giants. He clearly would have had less yards here and perhaps injured in trying, but for the Giants to let their most popular player from a team and fan perspective walk was a monumental blunder in planning by Schoen going back two years.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 20, 2025, 08:22:42 AMHe allowed himself to be taken out of a game and rest a game for the good of the team. His loss as a leader left a huge void for the Giants. He clearly would have had less yards here and perhaps injured in trying, but for the Giants to let their most popular player from a team and fan perspective walk was a monumental blunder in planning by Schoen going back two years.
Saying they "let him go" isn't exactly accurate. He wanted no part of staying here and I don't blame him for that. They wasted 5 years of his career which for a RB amounts to usually more than half and in many cases the entirety of it. He wanted out and with good reason. He knew the Eagles wanted him and that they had the best OL in the game along with 2 stud WRs and a competent QB that can actually play football. He's from the area. He was always going to Philly no matter what the Giants did.
Not to mention had they franchised him again or something to force him to stay, he'd have done the same thing he did the last 5 years which is be the best player on a 4 win team. What good does that do? With the money they didn't spend on him they were able to bring in 3 starters on the OL which before everybody got hurt was performing at a fairly high level. At least high by Giants standards. It was the right decision for all parties involved and it drives me nuts the media narrative that somehow the Giants are so stupid as to think they thought Barkley wasn't good at football somehow. Everybody that's ever seen a football knows Barkley is excellent. But on this team for 5 years his excellence amounted to a bunch of nothing in terms of wins and he wanted out.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 20, 2025, 08:22:42 AMHe allowed himself to be taken out of a game and rest a game for the good of the team. His loss as a leader left a huge void for the Giants. He clearly would have had less yards here and perhaps injured in trying, but for the Giants to let their most popular player from a team and fan perspective walk was a monumental blunder in planning by Schoen going back two years.
I will be rooting for Washington but he has a chance to lead his team to a Super Bowl and potentially be the MVP there.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 20, 2025, 08:22:42 AMHe allowed himself to be taken out of a game and rest a game for the good of the team. His loss as a leader left a huge void for the Giants. He clearly would have had less yards here and perhaps injured in trying, but for the Giants to let their most popular player from a team and fan perspective walk was a monumental blunder in planning by Schoen going back two years.
If they were letting Barkley leave it had to be for picks
Two trade deadlines in a row and nothing...
This organization has completely failed to build a line for Eli's 2nd half of his career and for 6 years with Barkley, wasting the opportunity both players offer.
Error on the side of caution and go get too many lineman and let the cream rise to the top, the rest become depth or trade bait at the deadline.
Finally go get it right.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 20, 2025, 04:24:06 AMOL drives everything on O. Giants completely screwed the pooch having such a poor OL. This is our Achilles Heel. Fix this and even an average QB will punch above his weight class. Holes for a RB and time to throw make an offense go.
It always has been. I look back to the Parcells years and his committment to fix the Offensive Line, as well as hire Johnny Parker, not to mention turning over the roster and filling it with "Parcells' guys" as critical to turning the entire team around. Once he sent Butch Woolfolk packing, and choosing Joe Morris as his guy, Lee Rouson as his backup, and trading for Tony Galbreath as an experienced third down back, the ground game slowly but surely came together.
It really wasn't until 1985, and the USFL signings where the Giants picked up center Bart Oates, and fullback Maurice Carthon, that the line was completed and Morris blossomed into a top back in the conference. Having a young Mark Bavaro didn't hurt either! But once they got Zeke Mowatt back in 1986, it was one and they eventually became unstoppable.
We all want to see something like that with this current team but the financial constraints, an often injured left tackle making a lot of money playing for the crutch brigade and the depth completely unacceptable keeps the team from competing on the field, no matter if they even had a Hurts, Daniels, Mahomes or Allen.
Fix the damned offensive line and build it's depth to remain competitive throughout the season. That must be their single-minded sense of purpose. If they cannot do that, no QB will survive a 17-game season behind them; it's really as simple as that.
Peace!
Saquon had the two long TD runs. On both plays the defense had the opportunity to tackle him but he accelerated past the defensive back and left him grasping at air. Most RBs aren't scoring on those two plays. On the other 24 carries, Barkley had 65 total yards for a 2.7 ypc average. This is the same boom or bust Barkley we saw in his rookie season with the Giants. He's healthy and has regained his breakaway speed from 2018.
Barkley had two of the top-5 fastest offensive plays in the NFL this season.
https://x.com/NextGenStats/status/1870905845703463376?t=yPo6MHeq6ME9VxG9btLoLA&s=19
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 20, 2025, 07:43:01 AMBarkley deserves a lot of credit for what he accomplished yesterday and the season. Of course the Oline was a big asset, but he was on a mission this season. In a game with some of the worst field conditions he won that game for them.
This, not to mention he was also a year removed further away from injury too.
A good OL helps a lot. With that said it's also important to do the opposite on the defensive side. Having a DL that gets after the QB and plugs the run goes a long way too. Good coaching is a must. The Giants should think about adding Carter and picking up a QB to groom in the mid to late first or wait for second round. Pick up a punishing running back in the draft. I noticed how other teams find good OL in late rounds but the Giants can't seem to find and develop any mind boggling. This team needs to hire good head coach who hold everyone accountable in the proper way doesn't see his staff as the next scapegoat to save his job.
The problem with the Giants is Schoen and Daboll don't give this organization hope. Even if they get a QB in here what makes anyone think the coaching is good enough to get something done. I don't believe in Schoen and Daboll. Schoen has made very dumb mistakes letting so many players go without any compensation just for what cap space so they can spend money on inferior talent, or just to get rid of players that he doesn't deem as his drafts or hires.
I know people are still missing Saquan but I have no problem with us cutting bait. We were in the top 10-15 in pass protection until Thomas got injured, and that's with Jones still mysteriously wandering into sacks.
Of course Barkley is doing well with a super mobile qb, 2 elite wrs, and an elite TE. That Philly team made Miles Sanders look elite with 1200 yards and got him Paid, what has he done since? 400 yards and 200 yards the past 2 years.
Context because imo and this is my opinion but Barkley didn't give it his all in 2023, he cruised and waited for FA. So I have no issue with him going and us paying a million for the same production instead of 13 million.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 20, 2025, 10:17:23 AMSaquon had the two long TD runs. On both plays the defense had the opportunity to tackle him but he accelerated past the defensive back and left him grasping at air. Most RBs aren't scoring on those two plays. On the other 24 carries, Barkley had 65 total yards for a 2.7 ypc average. This is the same boom or bust Barkley we saw in his rookie season with the Giants. He's healthy and has regained his breakaway speed from 2018.
Barkley had two of the top-5 fastest offensive plays in the NFL this season.
https://x.com/NextGenStats/status/1870905845703463376?t=yPo6MHeq6ME9VxG9btLoLA&s=19
I think that is how all breakaway RBs are — Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers, etc. Lots of low yardage carries and a few explosive ones.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 20, 2025, 11:54:03 AMI think that is how all breakaway RBs are — Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers, etc. Lots of low yardage carries and a few explosive ones.
It's a function of a RBs unique talent. It's not something replicable with a dominant OL.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 20, 2025, 11:54:03 AMI think that is how all breakaway RBs are — Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers, etc. Lots of low yardage carries and a few explosive ones.
And this works if you have the OL that can create the holes to take advantage of that breakaway speed. The Eagles could create those kind of holes a couple of times a game whereas the Giants couldn't consistently do it.
Quote from: jgrangers2 on January 20, 2025, 12:34:29 PMAnd this works if you have the OL that can create the holes to take advantage of that breakaway speed. The Eagles could create those kind of holes a couple of times a game whereas the Giants couldn't consistently do it.
Did you see the plays? Tyrone Tracey wouldn't have scored on either of those plays. It was all Barkley.
It's interesting that a dominant OL is responsible for two long runs but not responsible for 2.7 yards per carry on the other 24 runs.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 20, 2025, 12:46:43 PMIt's interesting that a dominant OL is responsible for two long runs but not responsible for 2.7 yards per carry on the other 24 runs.
Excellent point Doc. One cannot cherry-pick on this subject and be credible.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 20, 2025, 12:46:43 PMDid you see the plays? Tyrone Tracey wouldn't have scored on either of those plays. It was all Barkley.
It's interesting that a dominant OL is responsible for two long runs but not responsible for 2.7 yards per carry on the other 24 runs.
I'm not saying Tracy would have. I'm saying that in order to get Saquon up to that speed, you have to create those kinds of holes. There aren't many O-lines that can provide that level of blocking on a consistent basis.
Quote from: jgrangers2 on January 20, 2025, 01:49:51 PMI'm not saying Tracy would have. I'm saying that in order to get Saquon up to that speed, you have to create those kinds of holes. There aren't many O-lines that can provide that level of blocking on a consistent basis.
Fair enough. I'm just not sure I would call it consistent.
Good for him. Glad to see him getting the success that all his hard work, over many years, has reaped.
His speed is remarkable, of course, but it's plain to me that what truly separates Saquon from every other RB in the NFL is his acceleration. That's how it's always been with him- it's what destroys defensive angles on him. One year and he is already an Eagles legend. Can't tell you how much I hate that it had to play out this way. He should have been a GIANTS legend.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on January 20, 2025, 03:44:46 PMGood for him. Glad to see him getting the success that all his hard work, over many years, has reaped.
His speed is remarkable, of course, but it's plain to me that what truly separates Saquon from every other RB in the NFL is his acceleration. That's how it's always been with him- it's what destroys defensive angles on him. One year and he is already an Eagles legend. Can't tell you how much I hate that it had to play out this way. He should have been a GIANTS legend.
Another of the many turds in the office Gettleman left. Drafts Saquon, immediately trades away the only other offensive threat, rendering his #2 pick utterly useless.
I don't want to start a new thread about a former player so I will pose my question here.
Is anyone here rooting for the Eagles in the playoffs because of Barkley whether it is because you like him, miss him or want to stick it to the Giants for letting him go?
If not do you know of any Giants fans who are?
I have an 81 year old dad who won't stop talking about how pissed off he is that Barkley was let go without being resigned and has been rooting for the Eagles all season. It is now reaching a boiling point where I have had to beg him to stop texting me about his playoff success and chants of MVP MVP. Naturally he wants Barkley and the Eagles to win it all which revolting to me.
Am I overreacting? He is 81 so maybe that should be forgivable but he is a healthy, clear headed and will till his 90's based in family history so it is not a dementia thing. :hmm:
I would argue that Barkley also demonstrates the superiority of the Eagle's medical program compared to the Giant's Mickey Mouse medical program, run by an old man leaning heavily on nepotism.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 21, 2025, 02:33:47 PMI don't want to start a new thread about a former player so I will pose my question here.
Is anyone here rooting for the Eagles in the playoffs because of Barkley whether it is because you like him, miss him or want to stick it to the Giants for letting him go?
If not do you know of any Giants fans who are?
I have an 81 year old dad who won't stop talking about how pissed off he is that Barkley was let go without being resigned and has been rooting for the Eagles all season. It is now reaching a boiling point where I have had to beg him to stop texting me about his playoff success and chants of MVP MVP. Naturally he wants Barkley and the Eagles to win it all which revolting to me.
Am I overreacting? He is 81 so maybe that should be forgivable but he is a healthy, clear headed and will till his 90's based in family history so it is not a dementia thing. :hmm:
If he had gone to a team other than the Eagles I probably would. But I can't stand Philly fans and want nothing but sports suffering for them always and forever. If he had gone to the Commies instead I'd be rooting for him. He's a good guy and a great player. For all the "we did everything we could to ruin Jones" talk, Jones wasn't any good. The Giants actually did ruin Barkley's first 5 seasons.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 21, 2025, 02:33:47 PMI don't want to start a new thread about a former player so I will pose my question here.
Is anyone here rooting for the Eagles in the playoffs because of Barkley whether it is because you like him, miss him or want to stick it to the Giants for letting him go?
If not do you know of any Giants fans who are?
I have an 81 year old dad who won't stop talking about how pissed off he is that Barkley was let go without being resigned and has been rooting for the Eagles all season. It is now reaching a boiling point where I have had to beg him to stop texting me about his playoff success and chants of MVP MVP. Naturally he wants Barkley and the Eagles to win it all which revolting to me.
Am I overreacting? He is 81 so maybe that should be forgivable but he is a healthy, clear headed and will till his 90's based in family history so it is not a dementia thing. :hmm:
I am rooting for Washington Commanders. I appreciate that it's difficult to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. That said, I am not sure what Barkley ever did for NYG or for the fans to warrant such loyalty. Admittedly, it's proven to be a colossal blunder by Schoen, but rooting for Barkley's success will not undo the mistake.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 20, 2025, 04:24:06 AMOL drives everything on O. Giants completely screwed the pooch having such a poor OL. This is our Achilles Heel. Fix this and even an average QB will punch above his weight class. Holes for a RB and time to throw make an offense go.
I've been saying this for years now... our achilles heel screwed up the team for many years, along the way we screwed up careers, or at least years of two QBs (last years of Eli's and DJ's), Barkley's and others.... It's a shame that we have owners who are clueless themselves, picking the GMs who are inept, relative to others.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 21, 2025, 02:33:47 PMI don't want to start a new thread about a former player so I will pose my question here.
Is anyone here rooting for the Eagles in the playoffs because of Barkley whether it is because you like him, miss him or want to stick it to the Giants for letting him go?
If not do you know of any Giants fans who are?
I have an 81 year old dad who won't stop talking about how pissed off he is that Barkley was let go without being resigned and has been rooting for the Eagles all season. It is now reaching a boiling point where I have had to beg him to stop texting me about his playoff success and chants of MVP MVP. Naturally he wants Barkley and the Eagles to win it all which revolting to me.
Am I overreacting? He is 81 so maybe that should be forgivable but he is a healthy, clear headed and will till his 90's based in family history so it is not a dementia thing. :hmm:
I have a colleague who told me today he is pulling for Philly because he thinks Barkley deserves this success and he wants to see it continue. He made the point that "no matter what, an NFC East team not named the Giants has to win this game, so I might as well pull for the one with the player I like the most."
I get the above to a degree, but what is the plan if they make the Super Bowl? Could any Giants fan really root for the Eagles in a Super Bowl under any circumstances? That seems unfathomable to me.
I'm not even rooting for them this weekend, or ever. I despise the Eagles. I don't hold it against Barkley at all that he joined them, as he did what he had to do for his career and I still have total respect for him, but that doesn't mean I have to root for his team. I will never do that, ever. I can't stand that team or their classless fans.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 21, 2025, 06:47:59 PMI have a colleague who told me today he is pulling for Philly because he thinks Barkley deserves this success and he wants to see it continue. He made the point that "no matter what, an NFC East team not named the Giants has to win this game, so I might as well pull for the one with the player I like the most."
I get the above to a degree, but what is the plan if they make the Super Bowl? Could any Giants fan really root for the Eagles in a Super Bowl under any circumstances? That seems unfathomable to me.
I'm not even rooting for them this weekend, or ever. I despise the Eagles. I don't hold it against Barkley at all that he joined them, as he did what he had to do for his career and I still have total respect for him, but that doesn't mean I have to root for his team. I will never do that, ever. I can't stand that team or their classless fans.
Many Giants fans did root for the Eagles vs the Patriots when they won their only SB. Of course that includes my dad. The reasoning is crazy. That because of the 2 SBs vs the Patriots they were a bigger rival than the team we play twice a year with the worse fanbase in all USA sports. I was livid at my Dad and called him a traitor.
Of course I am not rooting for the Eagles this weekend and though I won't root for injuries let's just say I won't be broken hearted about any to the Commies. Anything to get the Bills their long awaited title (since the merger).