In the draft, would you rather the Giants draft a guard or a tackle?
LT 78 Thomas, Andrew 20/1 Hudson, James U/Cle 75 Ezeudu, Joshua 22/3
LG 76 Runyan, Jon U/GB 64 STINNIE, AARON U/TB
C 61 Schmitz Jr., John Michael 23/2 65 Schlottmann, Austin U/Min 67 Morrissey, Jimmy SF24 60 Hudson, Bryan SF24
RG 74 VAN ROTEN, GREG U/LV 63 Kubas, Jake CF24 73 Neal, Evan 22/1
RT 72 ELUEMUNOR, JERMAINE U/LV Forsythe, Stone U/Sea
will Thomas be back 100% ????? IMO that is the crucial element here
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 31, 2025, 10:46:25 AMIn the draft, would you rather the Giants draft a guard or a tackle?
LT 78 Thomas, Andrew 20/1 Hudson, James U/Cle 75 Ezeudu, Joshua 22/3
LG 76 Runyan, Jon U/GB 64 STINNIE, AARON U/TB
C 61 Schmitz Jr., John Michael 23/2 65 Schlottmann, Austin U/Min 67 Morrissey, Jimmy SF24 60 Hudson, Bryan SF24
RG 74 VAN ROTEN, GREG U/LV 63 Kubas, Jake CF24 73 Neal, Evan 22/1
RT 72 ELUEMUNOR, JERMAINE U/LV Forsythe, Stone U/Sea
The Giants need both. We have so much OL depth that consists of horrible players. Eze is horrible. There Re plenty more. Draft an OT and a Guard and push JE to back up for both.
This should be the Year of the Trenches.
Guys like this
Round 1 - Carter, Hunter or Graham
Round 2 - Donovan Jackson, Darius Alexander, Josh Connerly
Round 3 - Ozzy Trapilo, Marcus Mbow (for interior), Tate Ratledge, Josiah Stewart
I hope they draft (in any order) an OT, G, DT and Edge
Quote from: President Rick on March 31, 2025, 10:56:28 AMwill Thomas be back 100% ????? IMO that is the crucial element here
Rick, that is an excellent point. Thomas should be able to return, but the year post Lisfranc Injury tends to be a down year for many players.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10087650/#:~:text=A%20total%20of%2033%20NFL,each)%20at%20$19.4%20million%20each.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10641664/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20study%20also%20identified,Lisfranc%20injury%20treatments%20%5B24%5D.
I agree on drafting both. If the talent is the same, tackle is the more critical need based on AT injury history. I suspect it will be easier to draft a starting guard in rd 2 or 3 and a development swing tackle as well
Guard first, round 2. Tackle early day 3.
Quote from: londonblue on March 31, 2025, 11:11:09 AMGuard first, round 2. Tackle early day 3.
I would flip-flop only because you are more likely to find a competent guard on day three than you will find a tackle
Guard is a bigger need in my opinion. I'd rather not count on Evan Neal being useful as a guard as the only way to upgrade that spot. I'd go guard as early as round 2 but no later than round 3. If they can also get a Tackle they feel is worthwhile that's fine, but i think they'd get more bang for their buck even at DT rather than OT.
If Tate Ratledge is there at 34, you have to absolutely consider it heavily. I think he will sneak in the 1st but we will see, shortage of guards it seems around the league, and potentially in this draft as far as day 1, or early starters.
Day 3 is where I would look for OT, Cornelius, Trapilo, Belton, Pierce, Hinton and others, we don't need a day one starter, any OT we bring it would be 4th on the chart. Alot of solid options we can try to develop and bolster depth with.
OG doesn't have as many options, but Slater, Truss, or Kandra could be later options I suppose.
Jonah Monheim can play T,G, or C, could be a valuable depth piece on Day 3.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 31, 2025, 11:13:13 AMI would flip-flop only because you are more likely to find a competent guard on day three than you will find a tackle
Who do you like on Day 3 for G?
I think we should move to have a top 5 or possibly the best defense in the league
I think Round 1 should be Carter or Graham
If its Carter
You go DT in round 2
If you draft Graham in the first then you go for Guard in the second
Quote from: Gmo11 on March 31, 2025, 11:23:52 AMGuard is a bigger need in my opinion. I'd rather not count on Evan Neal being useful as a guard as the only way to upgrade that spot. I'd go guard as early as round 2 but no later than round 3. If they can also get a Tackle they feel is worthwhile that's fine, but i think they'd get more bang for their buck even at DT rather than OT.
If the Giants draft an OT on day 2, who can start, ELUEMUNOR can be thrown in the mix at guard (which is where the Giants originally started him out).
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 31, 2025, 11:30:53 AMIf the Giants draft an OT on day 2, who can start, ELUEMUNOR can be thrown in the mix at guard (which is where the Giants originally started him out).
That's an excellent point and something I hadn't considered. Totally on board with that plan if that's the plan. And, of course, the OL they draft doesn't stink like most of the previous ones they've drafted have.
I apologize if this question derails the thread and please delete if it detracts from the original question, but does anyone have any concern for Schmitz jr? I don't have pff, so I'm unsure if he is better than my perception of him, however he does appear to be below average....or very below average.
I know he's pretty and looks the part, but as we've seen with other draft picks that we as big blue fans tend to overvalue players the Giants draft, and this seems to be another draft pick in that mode.
Does this make a guard more a necessity over tackle when drafting in your opinions?
Just a thought.
Top
Quote from: Topshelf21 on March 31, 2025, 11:42:50 AMI apologize if this question derails the thread and please delete if it detracts from the original question, but does anyone have any concern for Schmitz jr? I don't have pff, so I'm unsure if he is better than my perception of him, however he does appear to be below average....or very below average.
I know he's pretty and looks the part, but as we've seen with other draft picks that we as big blue fans tend to overvalue players the Giants draft, and this seems to be another draft pick in that mode.
Does this make a guard more a necessity over tackle when drafting in your opinions?
Just a thought.
Top
Since you asked about JMS
His PFF grade is 61.4, which ranks him 28th out of 40 centers
I really thought JMS was going to be better than this. He was an older center. His profile suggested a high-floor/low-ceiling type of player. What we ended up with was a guy hitting the floor, and that floor was a bit lower than expected.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 31, 2025, 11:48:54 AMSince you asked about JMS
His PFF grade is 61.4, which ranks him 28th out of 40 centers
I really thought JMS was going to be better than this. He was an older center. His profile suggested a high-floor/low-ceiling type of player. What we ended up with was a guy hitting the floor, and that floor was a bit lower than expected.
JMS has peaked. He is what he is. He needs to be replaced as that is not good enough. He should go to the bench.
My preference would be for an OG with true starter potential. Yeah sure, it's always tempting to add, and someone who could play either OT or OC in a pinch. But versatility should not be an issue in seeking a No.1 position player.
They might also look to add an OT in a Draft not notably deep at the position. And that also bring into play the question as to what influence would trading up for Jaxson Dart have re this year's picks? For example, 34 and 65, this year and a next year's 2nd Rounder have been suggested.
When it comes to the Draft guessing can be harder than stressing which are the only two things we are good at in any case
I prefer a proven RT before a proven OG, but I want both. I really like Trapilo because of his height/weight 6-8/320 and pass protection prowess, as well as playing his entire career at RT. Membou is supposed to be good, but I don't want a 6'3" RT with T-Rex arms, even though he is very good, especially in zone blocking
Some very intriguing guards: Tyler Booker, Dylan Fairchild, Jackson Slater, etc. Booker is "plug and play" and Fairchild is nearly that level. Both excel in pass protection, which IMOFWIW, is more important for the Giants than a run blocking guard
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on March 31, 2025, 12:32:21 PMI prefer a proven RT before a proven OG, but I want both. I really like Trapilo because of his height/weight 6-8/320 and pass protection prowess, as well as playing his entire career at RT. Membou is supposed to be good, but I don't want a 6'3" RT with T-Rex arms, even though he is very good, especially in zone blocking
Some very intriguing guards: Tyler Booker, Dylan Fairchild, Jackson Slater, etc. Booker is "plug and play" and Fairchild is nearly that level. Both excel in pass protection, which IMOFWIW, is more important for the Giants than a run blocking guard
I love that Trapilo is only 320 for such height as 6'8" as he has no excess weight. Dante Scarnecchia who is training him said that not only is a well techniqued ORT, but that he can swing to play OLT as he is comfortable moving to his right or left. He's my #1 guy for the Giants to draft midround. He'll solve multiple problems for them.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 31, 2025, 12:57:45 PMI love that Trapilo is only 320 for such height as 6'8" as he has no excess weight. Dante Scarnecchia who is training him said that not only is a well techniqued ORT, but that he can swing to play OLT as he is comfortable moving to his right or left. He's my #1 guy for the Giants to draft midround. He'll solve multiple problems for them.
It would sure be nice to finally fix the right tackle side of the line. It's been a weak spot for far too long. Now if we can only keep Thomas healthy on the left side, and we could be looking at a strength rather than a weakness of the team. I also think that Schmitz is about to come into his own and be one of the top centers in the game. I can hope anyway :-??
Quote from: Philosophers on March 31, 2025, 12:57:45 PMI love that Trapilo is only 320 for such height as 6'8" as he has no excess weight. Dante Scarnecchia who is training him said that not only is a well techniqued ORT, but that he can swing to play OLT as he is comfortable moving to his right or left. He's my #1 guy for the Giants to draft midround. He'll solve multiple problems for them.
Agreed on Trapilo, alot to like there. Would be good value in the 3/4 range.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 31, 2025, 10:46:25 AMIn the draft, would you rather the Giants draft a guard or a tackle?
Rich: It's not even close. Right tackle. If they traded up into the first round for a right tackle, it would not bother me one bit. With a solid right tackle (assuming Thomas is medically fine) we have an above-average offensive line at the least, because our current right tackle is an NFL-caliber starter at guard, IMO. Bob
At one point do the Giants have to start thinking about replacing Thomas since he can never be healthy? I don't mean with a developmental OT, but someone who can step in and start at OLT. His injuries are a major cause of concern.
Day 3 depth is all I want. Dumping so much into the line instead of just signing olinemen in FA set this team back. Kubas has potential, and we can see what Neal has at guard. So a developmental guard and tackle for depth is all I want.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 31, 2025, 01:50:01 PMDay 3 depth is all I want. Dumping so much into the line instead of just signing olinemen in FA set this team back. Kubas has potential, and we can see what Neal has at guard. So a developmental guard and tackle for depth is all I want.
Day 3 is when you have confidence in your starters and some backups but need more backup depth. Now, we want to be a downfield throwing team. It's nowhere near capable of doing that with its current starters. Assume you get AT for 7 games so you need an effective OLT for 10 games plus a RG plus an upgrade at C plus an ORT to push JE to RG. Now, what do you do with the current backups like Eze? Get rid of them.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 31, 2025, 01:57:49 PMDay 3 is when you have confidence in your starters and some backups but need more backup depth. Now, we want to be a downfield throwing team. It's nowhere near capable of doing that with its current starters. Assume you get AT for 7 games so you need an effective OLT for 10 games plus a RG plus an upgrade at C plus an ORT to push JE to RG. Now, what do you do with the current backups like Eze? Get rid of them.
I have confidence in the starters, which is why I said day 3 depth. The line played well until injury and will probably play even better with an extra year with the oline coach. If we start drafting positions in the event of potential injuries we'd be all over the place. Would I like an upgrade at some positions, absolutely but this draft isn't deep at guard or tackle. So to maximize the high capital we do have,we need to attack positions that will be BPA when we pick. If a Tyler Booker falls to round 2 or a Conerly/Cameron Williams falls to round 3, absolutely take them because BPA/Need would meet, but I am fully of the mindset after a decade of bad line play that I am ok just paying for the line in FA.
No one has been a bigger Andrew Thomas fan than Moi. No one here lobbied harder for the Giants to take him with their No.4 overall in 2020. And I was in full gloat when he made All-Pro in '22.
But now, having missed 18 of his last 34 games injured, the latest requiring Lisfranc surgery, it's cause for concern even though he should be ready to go this season. It certainly won't be easy to find anyone with his talent and ability on a 2nd or 3rd day. Still, as we sometimes hear it said, "the best ability is availability" or "you can't make the club in the tub".
In any case, whatever the choices, whatever priority they may give to OT, or OG, or both starting on Thursday April 24, we'd better hope that Andrew Thomas stays fit to go the distance.
Cheers!
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 31, 2025, 11:01:31 AMRick, that is an excellent point. Thomas should be able to return, but the year post Lisfranc Injury tends to be a down year for many players.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10087650/#:~:text=A%20total%20of%2033%20NFL,each)%20at%20$19.4%20million%20each.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10641664/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20study%20also%20identified,Lisfranc%20injury%20treatments%20%5B24%5D.
Excellent research, Rich
@MightyGiants ! These, and my personal testimony from my wife's experience is something to not take lightly. Thomas will recover and be able to walk, jog and do just about anything a normal, healthy person can do. But, when it comes down to the rigors of an NFL Left Tackle, that's a little different animal and the nuances of any plates and screws can potentially cause him problems since that foot really needs a good 18-24 months before it has completely healed from the trauma caused by the fracture, the surgery, rehabilitation and trying to get back to normal (NOTE: even though it will never be normal again).
In that spirit, the Giants would be best served drafting his replacement soon. If not this season, then possibly next. Add a guard to that draft list as well.
In all, I feel if the Giants draft two offensive linemen, that will serve the team's depth very well and, hopefully one or both will end up starting sooner rather than later. That should be the ultimate goal.
Peace!
will Thomas be back 100% ????? IMO that is the crucial element here
Quote from: President Rick on April 01, 2025, 12:14:45 PMwill Thomas be back 100% ????? IMO that is the crucial element here
Odds are he will be back, say 90%
Given that JE can play guard, I'd draft two OTs. Both should be able to play ORT, but one needs to be able to play OLT as well. Both need to be at least average starter type quality. My reasoning is that in the past two seasons, Andrew Thomas played in only 6 games in 2024 and 10 games in 2023. When he goes down (and he invariably does), the OL falls apart. OLT needs another quality starter in addition to Andrew Thomas. The second ORT they'd draft needs to start so JE can move inside to Guard.