Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 28, 2024, 12:41:29 AMCorbin, Singletary, and Gray are all 1 cut backs.

J: This is not necessarily a bad thing. 

I never completely agreed with the idea Jim Fassel had that two different types of RB's were absolutely necessary (the Giants passed on someone they should have drafted back then because the guy in question was the same type of RB they already had.

The advantage of not having a variety is that the OL can block all running plays the same (and lord knows the Giants' OL, which can't do anything right, needs the maximum amount of reps on just one type of blocking, IMO. My fall-back example is the Vince Lombardi offense, which ran only a small handful of running plays, and practiced them over and over and over, until the OL got so good at running them that the opponent couldn't stop them even if when they knew which play was being run.

Bob

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 27, 2024, 08:45:46 PMHow motivated do you think they really were to sign Barkley? They didn't tag him, and there were plenty of reports he was going to hit the free agent market. I would not say they made any real effort to sign him. I think it was a total waste to not trade him. "We were still trying to win" in the context of what this team was in 2023 is an absurd explanation.

DB: IMO there are different levels of "motivated" and the Giants wanted him, just not badly (due to the cost). Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 27, 2024, 12:03:45 PMYes, I had never considered the point he made about how the O-line performance is essentially independent of the rest of the team.

Rich: He's correct. They are an essentially independent "unit" (which is why, when asked, which is the most important POSITION on offense and defense, I always answer "offensive line" (I consider OL a position). It does little good to have one top OL and a bunch of crap elsewhere. Any decent NFL team will find dozens of ways around the one good guy... the proof is right here with the Giants, IMO.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 27, 2024, 12:33:43 PMAddressed the offensive line?

To me this feels like past off-seasons where we were all so thirsty for a functional OL that we got excited over middling signings.

I think most of those signings were depth, and that we still need Day 1 & day 2 OL.

#tradedown
#weneedmorepicks


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andrew: No one knows, but I believe the two guards we just got in free-agency are better than the last time they signed free-agent guards.  I don't know for sure if the one guy will play guard or if he'll have to take over for Neal, because IMO Neal is still a wild card. Bob

Quote from: londonblue on March 27, 2024, 07:58:41 AMThe UK residents on the forum feel much the same about American football=soccer players...

london: Great retort!!! Bob

Quote from: madbadger on March 26, 2024, 03:42:33 PMNo wonder why we suck. 

madb: One of your best posts!!! Bob

Excellent mentor for Schmitz (if nothing else). Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 26, 2024, 11:04:30 AM@Bob In PA and @Jolly Blue Giant

Another consideration is positional value.  TEs are paid substantially less than WRs.  So the value of a rookie TE drafted at 6 is substantially less (cap-wise) than a WR drafted at 6.

Rich: That is why I mentioned him.  If they really want the GA TE then IMO they'll first seek to trade down a couple of spots to pick up the 2nd-rounder they gave Carolina. Bob

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 25, 2024, 12:01:07 PMcollege football (as it relates to the passing game) has become a literal minor league system to the NFL.

andrew: True, but that doesn't mean playing WR in the NFL has gotten any easier than in the past.

The college WR's simply never face the kind of "perfect storm" DB's they will face in the NFL.  You get mugged on every play in the NFL and most people just can't deal with it.  And it's worse in cold weather.

My bottom line: every NFL position has a learning curve, but IMO for all but the very best WR's (and even for some of them) the learning curve for WR is one of the steepest. 

Bob

Rich: Regarding the synopses in your post:

Harrison, Jr.: All true.

Nabers: All true. He worries me just like Toney worried me... IMO likely to be an "on-one-day, off-on-another" type of player. Again, never played in cold weather and the fact that he declined to be measured with a ruler means he is likely significantly smaller (in both ways) than the stats shown by LSU.

Odunze: The comparison to Tim Brown is IMO as accurate a "guess" as possible at this time. He will have to adjust to NFL DB's a bit. They are bigger/stronger than what he saw out on the west coast.

Who do the Giants want? Gotta be Harrison, Jr. I say this primarily because I've seen rather consistent articles coming out of the national and NE media lauding the other two guys (click bait? I don't know) for various reasons and in most cases making NFL comparisons that I don't agree with (too over-the-top).

Will Giants pick either Nabers or Odunze?  The more I look into those guys, the more I doubt it. Assuming they don't want to take a QB or the "right one" doesn't fall to them (and Harrison is gone) get ready to crap your pants, because I'm going to guess that the Georgia TE is next on their list of "best players available."

Bob

PS. The "wild card" is at right tackle. We really have no idea what the new OL coach thinks of Neal, and they could go right tackle with Pick Six, although I don't see a perfect candidate for right tackle (because IMO Joe Alt wants to be PAID like a left tackle - and he deserves to be, IMO).  I know for a fact that he is one of the smartest players in this draft and will probably record a very high test score. He's good enough and smart enough to play right tackle, so who knows... if he volunteers to do so in exchange for being taken in the sixth slot over-all, the Giants could bite. Mara loves his Golden-Domers.

Quote from: kingm56 on March 25, 2024, 11:53:54 AMBob,

I don't prescribe to the notion that Mara is solely responsible for DJ remaining on the roster; although, I certainly believe he played a role.  Fundamentally, I believe he's still on a team as result of circumstance.  If a decent QB prospect was available in 2022, the Giants would have drafted him with one of their two top 7 picks.  Unfortunately, it was the worse draft for QB prospects in two decades. Last year, there were no alternatives and it would have been a marketing nightmare to allow DJ to walk, following a Playoff victory. What I do know is 60+ GS is more than enough time to predict DJ's trajectory. 

king: My mantra about the draft continues to be that the Giants are one of the unluckiest of NFL teams, and have been so since IMO the late 1960's. Their best "luck" has been 2004 (the Eli situation) and the year Lawrence Taylor "fell" to Pick Two. lol  Bob

Quote from: Philosophers on March 25, 2024, 11:47:52 AMBob - given their FA pickups at OL, I think it's less of a need (at least early in draft) and we may need to let them play out.

QB vs WR who gets us top 10 QB play in 2025 or sooner.

Phil: Right (except for the Evan Neal quandary/problem/issue,which I don't have a clear "read" on right now). Bob

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 25, 2024, 11:45:05 AMI will sound like a broken record..because on this topic; I AM!
Trade down, grab another 2nd this year and a 1st next year.
Then prioritize OL (yep even with the FAs we picked up), CB, DT.
Next priority LB and WR.
Higher WR & QB should be addressed next year. We're not winning anything this year anyway so having an extra #1 and a top 10 of your own to maneuver, knowing that the trenches on the roster are deep in talent; that's how I'd like to see this team built.

andrew: I'd like to agree completely, but it is IMO a rare enough event to get a shot at a true "bell-cow" WR to justify jumping on it this year, unless (1) the Giants see a proven elite WR who'll become a free agent in 2025 (for whom they're willing to outbid virtually any other team); or (2) they have a SINGLE favorite high-1st-round-worthy WR in mind this year and that guy is gone.

I do see how waiting fits into your plan, which I like, but it's cheaper to draft one this year than overpay a 2025 free agent, and, there is a high bust rate for first round WR's in general.

Further, IMO there is a least one bust-proof WR this year. Next year? I don't know. Good post.

Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2024, 11:31:06 AMI am puzzled by how many people buy into the claim that Daniel Jones is a slow processor.  Do you honestly believe that Daboll (for all his faults, he appears to be a pretty good OC) couldn't figure out how quickly Jones could process?  Does anyone here believe that outsiders or fans are better at judging DJ's processing speed than the coaches in the building?

Rich: I sense (but cannot prove) that most of the folks here who are seriously down on Jones DO BELIEVE that the only reason he's still on the team is due to the owners (probably Mara) insisting upon it. If true, that would negate your reasoning (above) which I find persuasive and logical. Bob

Quote from: kingm56 on March 25, 2024, 10:26:52 AMI actually agree with their position.  As I just explained to Bob, I'd prefer the Giants draft a 'second-tier' QB like Nix in the late 1st or early 2d, preserving their 1st pick to select the best WR available.

king: Me too. Bring in the "right" WR in the first round (not if the one or two you really wanted are already gone, in which case you bring in "best player available" at any position, although OL is certainly an area of need, so you look there first), then consider paying the price to move up to either the high 2nd-round or low 1st-round, depending on which (if any) QB's you really like is still available.

Bob

PS. If you really love a QB in the high first round who has inexplicably fallen to Pick Six, my plan (above) does not rule out serious consideration of a QB, especially if (for example) the guy who fell is your top-ranked QB in the entire draft vs. your second- or third-ranked WR.

PPS. My favorite drafts in the past have been when the Giants get the very best player they see from a position that has yet been drawn from by the other teams.  In other words, the best TE or best whatever, preferably at a position of need.  The Giants have numerous positions of need.