Big Blue Huddle

If you believe MHJ will be gone, which of the other two do you think will be the best fit?   

Bonus, here are Bob McGinn's initial breakdowns on the top 3 QBs (all based on comments from NFL scouts)


Marvin Harrison Jr., Ohio State (6-3, 209): Fourth in the Heisman Trophy voting. "He's the real deal," one scout said. "He's legit. He's everything they say. He's huge, he's quick, he's got sneaky speed and he catches everything."

Caught a mere 11 passes as a member of the Buckeyes' loaded wide-receiver group as a true freshman before catching 144 passes for 2,474 yards (17.2 average) and 28 touchdowns in the past two seasons. "They had a bad quarterback (Kyle McCord) this year and he still averaged 18.1 yards a catch," said a second scout.  "He's good on back shoulders, fades, traffic catches. He's a lot bigger than his dad (Marvin Sr., who was 6-0, 180 coming out in 1996). He reminded me of Calvin Johnson with his size, quickness, hands, speed, body control and run after the catch." One of the first players in combine history to shun the scheduled media interview; also didn't work out.  "Calvin's much more gifted," a third scout said. "I kind of liken him to Larry Fitzgerald. And, of the top handful of guys (wide receivers), his character is the cleanest. He's going to be a great NFL player just like Larry Fitzgerald was. Very similar."


Malik Nabers, Louisiana State (NA): NFL teams have no verified height, weight or speed after he declined measurements and testing in Indianapolis. "He's not Harrison," one scout said. "If you see that he's better than Harrison, just ignore it. He's more of that D.J. Moore kind of player. Thick running-back build. They do a lot of that underneath movement, slip-screen stuff with him. He's a good player, a really good player. Tough, strong. I don't think he has elite ball skills. He'll be a good starter." Had four dropped passes in the eight games broken down by another scout.  "That was the only thing that disappointed me," he said. "But they were all on slants and hitches so I think he's so anxious to run after the catch that he doesn't concentrate sometimes. He has the best run-after-the-catch of the group. After the catch this guy is just sensational. This guy's quicker than Justin Jefferson but Justin Jefferson is stronger and better in traffic. Nabers is amazing after the catch, and that's what it's all about, really, today." Finished second in college football last season with 1,569 receiving yards. "He's more physically talented than Harrison but he's not as big and not as much of a pro as Marvin is," said a third scout. "He's got some volatility, some immaturity. Of the top three guys, if there's one whose makeup would not allow him to reach his potential, it might be Nabers. But he's very passionate about football and plays the game that way and is highly competitive. The other (top) kids are just so damn clean."


Rome Odunze, Washington (6-3, 212): Saved his best for last, compiling career bests in 2023 for receptions (92), yards (1,640), average (17.8) and TDs (13). "He might be faster than Harrison," said one scout. "Harrison is more powerful. Who is he like? Tim Brown. He has Tim Brown's smoothness. All of a sudden he's on top of you and he's gone. He's a complete receiver, too. He can catch, run after the catch and he blocks." His 40 time at the combine was 4.45, his vertical jump of 39 inches was excellent and his shuttle runs were outstanding. "He's a great kid and it wouldn't surprise me if Odunze ended up being the best of the class," a second scout said. "What's crazy is he has production and there were three receivers there (Washington) that are getting drafted. He could be the slam dunk of the group. He's not getting as much (hype) now but let's be honest, some of that is because he's on the West Coast." Finished with 214 receptions and a 15.3 average. "He's good, but I have some issues with his quickness and his ability to separate," a third scout said. "He's strong, but his lack of explosiveness really bothered me. You hear, 'He makes these great plays,' but none of them are really high in the air. They're all where he bodies guys and they're lower catches. You just don't do that in the NFL. You better go up over somebody. I think he'll be a solid pro. Nothing special."

Rich: Regarding the synopses in your post:

Harrison, Jr.: All true.

Nabers: All true. He worries me just like Toney worried me... IMO likely to be an "on-one-day, off-on-another" type of player. Again, never played in cold weather and the fact that he declined to be measured with a ruler means he is likely significantly smaller (in both ways) than the stats shown by LSU.

Odunze: The comparison to Tim Brown is IMO as accurate a "guess" as possible at this time. He will have to adjust to NFL DB's a bit. They are bigger/stronger than what he saw out on the west coast.

Who do the Giants want? Gotta be Harrison, Jr. I say this primarily because I've seen rather consistent articles coming out of the national and NE media lauding the other two guys (click bait? I don't know) for various reasons and in most cases making NFL comparisons that I don't agree with (too over-the-top).

Will Giants pick either Nabers or Odunze?  The more I look into those guys, the more I doubt it. Assuming they don't want to take a QB or the "right one" doesn't fall to them (and Harrison is gone) get ready to crap your pants, because I'm going to guess that the Georgia TE is next on their list of "best players available."

Bob

PS. The "wild card" is at right tackle. We really have no idea what the new OL coach thinks of Neal, and they could go right tackle with Pick Six, although I don't see a perfect candidate for right tackle (because IMO Joe Alt wants to be PAID like a left tackle - and he deserves to be, IMO).  I know for a fact that he is one of the smartest players in this draft and will probably record a very high test score. He's good enough and smart enough to play right tackle, so who knows... if he volunteers to do so in exchange for being taken in the sixth slot over-all, the Giants could bite. Mara loves his Golden-Domers.

Best fit for what I want to see? Odunze. He offers several attributes our other WR's just don't.

But Nabers isn't exactly a consolation prize...

Quote from: Bob In PA on March 25, 2024, 12:41:02 PMRich: Regarding the synopses in your post:

Harrison, Jr.: All true.

Nabers: All true. He worries me just like Toney worried me... IMO likely to be an "on-one-day, off-on-another" type of player. Again, never played in cold weather and the fact that he declined to be measured with a ruler means he is likely significantly smaller (in both ways) than the stats shown by LSU.

Odunze: The comparison to Tim Brown is IMO as accurate a "guess" as possible at this time. He will have to adjust to NFL DB's a bit. They are bigger/stronger than what he saw out on the west coast.

Who do the Giants want? Gotta be Harrison, Jr. I say this primarily because I've seen rather consistent articles coming out of the national and NE media lauding the other two guys (click bait? I don't know) for various reasons and in most cases making NFL comparisons that I don't agree with (too over-the-top).

Will Giants pick either Nabers or Odunze?  The more I look into those guys, the more I doubt it. Assuming they don't want to take a QB or the "right one" doesn't fall to them (and Harrison is gone) get ready to crap your pants, because I'm going to guess that the Georgia TE is next on their list of "best players available."

Bob

PS. The "wild card" is at right tackle. We really have no idea what the new OL coach thinks of Neal, and they could go right tackle with Pick Six, although I don't see a perfect candidate for right tackle (because IMO Joe Alt wants to be PAID like a left tackle - and he deserves to be, IMO).  I know for a fact that he is one of the smartest players in this draft and will probably record a very high test score. He's good enough and smart enough to play right tackle, so who knows... if he volunteers to do so in exchange for being taken in the sixth slot over-all, the Giants could bite. Mara loves his Golden-Domers.

Bob,

Considering the track record of drafting highly regarded TEs, the idea of drafting Bowers scares the crap out of me.   Here is McGinn's take on Bower

Brock Bowers, Georgia (6-3, 243): Declined to work out at the combine. "I think he's better than the kid Atlanta took from Florida (Kyle Pitts)," said one scout. "Not as fast. He's the most no-brainer, top-10 tight end I've seen in a long time. He's not an outgoing guy. Just goes about his business. Not rah-rah, not a leader, but he's a hell of a player. His run after the catch is phenomenal." In three seasons he caught 175 passes for a 14.5 average and 26 TDs. "He runs such good routes," another scout said. "You wouldn't think he'd be all that quick but he runs by people. Exceptional athletic ability, strong hands, speed. You're not going to jam him. You can't jam. Because he'll run right through you. He separates." Underwent Tightrope surgery to repair a high-ankle sprain late in the season and returned 26 days later. "You got this little guy who's not a really good athlete and you're saying he'll be a top-10 pick?" a third scout said. "I just don't see it. He's been built up over the last couple years that he's like Kittle and Kelce. He is not those guys. He is not explosive. He's not fast. They schemed the hell out of him to get him balls, and he does a good job with that. He does have really good hands when he's free. But if you're just talking about a dynamic playmaker — he is not it. He cannot block, either. He looks small small. I bet he'll be 230. Maybe he'll beef up and all that."

Odunze and it honestly isn't close to me.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 25, 2024, 01:49:24 PMOdunze and it honestly isn't close to me.

I favor him as well. I don't think MHJ will be there at 6, and while Nabers has some wow traits, I will take the high-character non-diva WR who has the size to be a true X receiver.

Quote from: UKGiantsFan on March 25, 2024, 12:46:24 PMBest fit for what I want to see? Odunze. He offers several attributes our other WR's just don't.

But Nabers isn't exactly a consolation prize...

As so often happens, you've said it for me, Ceri. However, and whomever, it's not a pick that would worry me.

Cheers!

Either one is fine with me. Odunze would be my pick if MHJ is gone and it's only him and Nabers available.

If we're talking about drafting one of Nabers or Odunze, that means we're not drafting a QB in the first round. Hence Jones will be our QB next year, and possibly beyond, in this scenario. With that in mind, I think Nabers would be the pick. Jones seems to be a QB who functions best when his receiving options are wide open with substantial separation. He's not a contested catch, back shoulder, tight windows type of guy. Nabers gives you that separation ability that Jones needs better than Odunze.

I love Odunze by the way. I kind of think you can't go wrong here. But if you're asking me who I'd want the most for Jones, which is effectively what is being asked here, it's Nabers for me.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 25, 2024, 06:28:42 PMIf we're talking about drafting one of Nabers or Odunze, that means we're not drafting a QB in the first round. Hence Jones will be our QB next year, and possibly beyond, in this scenario. With that in mind, I think Nabers would be the pick. Jones seems to be a QB who functions best when his receiving options are wide open with substantial separation. He's not a contested catch, back shoulder, tight windows type of guy. Nabers gives you that separation ability that Jones needs better than Odunze.

I love Odunze by the way. I kind of think you can't go wrong here. But if you're asking me who I'd want the most for Jones, which is effectively what is being asked here, it's Nabers for me.

I believe Joe Schoen has mentioned the importance of WRs creating seperation

Plays fast.  Runs route fast with extra acceleration.

Plays big with large catch radius.  Dont want a large body who catches balls with body.  Want a ball snatcher especially outside the shoulders and head.  Goes up for balls.

We dont need a guy who is productive in the slot as too redundant.

Runs routes perfectly and understands importance of it

Who in this draft is this WR I am describing?

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2024, 01:21:10 PMBob,

Considering the track record of drafting highly regarded TEs, the idea of drafting Bowers scares the crap out of me.   Here is McGinn's take on Bower

Brock Bowers, Georgia (6-3, 243): Declined to work out at the combine. "I think he's better than the kid Atlanta took from Florida (Kyle Pitts)," said one scout. "Not as fast. He's the most no-brainer, top-10 tight end I've seen in a long time. He's not an outgoing guy. Just goes about his business. Not rah-rah, not a leader, but he's a hell of a player. His run after the catch is phenomenal." In three seasons he caught 175 passes for a 14.5 average and 26 TDs. "He runs such good routes," another scout said. "You wouldn't think he'd be all that quick but he runs by people. Exceptional athletic ability, strong hands, speed. You're not going to jam him. You can't jam. Because he'll run right through you. He separates." Underwent Tightrope surgery to repair a high-ankle sprain late in the season and returned 26 days later. "You got this little guy who's not a really good athlete and you're saying he'll be a top-10 pick?" a third scout said. "I just don't see it. He's been built up over the last couple years that he's like Kittle and Kelce. He is not those guys. He is not explosive. He's not fast. They schemed the hell out of him to get him balls, and he does a good job with that. He does have really good hands when he's free. But if you're just talking about a dynamic playmaker — he is not it. He cannot block, either. He looks small small. I bet he'll be 230. Maybe he'll beef up and all that."

Same thinking as me. If Harrison is gone and Odunze or Bowers is available, I believe it would be one of those two, even if Nabors was still on the board...or...they trade down and collect assets. Odunze would be a legitimate WR1 for the next few years, and Bowers would be a nightmare for defenses, like the days of old when Jason Witten single-handedly made mincemeat of the Giants. If they choose to go with Alt or Fashanu, I'd be quite surprised

@Bob In PA and @Jolly Blue Giant

Another consideration is positional value.  TEs are paid substantially less than WRs.  So the value of a rookie TE drafted at 6 is substantially less (cap-wise) than a WR drafted at 6.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 26, 2024, 11:04:30 AM@Bob In PA and @Jolly Blue Giant

Another consideration is positional value.  TEs are paid substantially less than WRs.  So the value of a rookie TE drafted at 6 is substantially less (cap-wise) than a WR drafted at 6.

Rich: That is why I mentioned him.  If they really want the GA TE then IMO they'll first seek to trade down a couple of spots to pick up the 2nd-rounder they gave Carolina. Bob

I wonder if the thing that makes Wrs not see a field is their simple lack of detail when it comes to running routes.