Big Blue Huddle

In case you were wondering

I just learned something I didn't know...and it's disappointing 

The Statue of Liberty - the world's most recognized symbol of freedom, was originally intended for Egypt, which ultimately rejected it for being too old-fashioned. The decision came as a huge disappointment to Lady Liberty's creator, Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi, who had envisioned the Suez Canal as the ideal venue for his mammoth harbor structure. Inspired by the grandeur of the Sphinx and the pyramids, Bartholdi sought to craft a colossal masterpiece. When Egypt declined his proposal, the artist shifted his attention to America, a nation flourishing in the post-Civil War era—where his vision ultimately found its home



I always thought the Statue of Liberty was a gift to the U.S. because of our ties to France as they helped in our War of Independence and our success encouraged them to do the same in France. But designed for Egypt??? Too "old-fashioned"??? what do you call the pyramids, the sphinx, and other structures thousands of years old? I woulda never thunk it 

I'm still on a kick studying national and international rivers, lakes, seaways, canals, etc.

A couple things I find fascinating

- The Amazon River is 40 miles wide at its widest point
- Oceangoing vessels can sail 2,300 miles up river in the Amazon from the Atlantic Ocean
- The Amazon River discharges 7,000,000 cubic feet of water PER SECOND...i.e., 4.5 trillion gallons
- The fresh water dumped into the Atlantic Ocean is so powerful, humans can still drink fresh water 100 miles out to sea from the mouth of the Amazon, and in certain areas of the Atlantic, the water is still fresh 200 miles out to sea
- The Amazon River is 330 ft deep in places
- While the Amazon River is 3,997 miles long, there are NO BRIDGES THAT CROSS IT
- There are more species of fish in the Amazon, than the rest of fresh water species in the entire world
- There is a "fresh water only" pink dolphin species that lives in the Amazon that is more fish than mammal, and is found nowhere else in the world



- As mentioned on another thread, the State of Michigan borders four of the five Great Lakes

Perspective about numbers

- If you had a printing press that printed 100 dollar bills, and could print one-per-second (6000 dollars per minute), it would take you 317 years (you would have to start printing more than 80 years before the Revolutionary War started to accomplish that feat)

The numbers:
- There are 60 seconds per minute
- 3,600 seconds per hour
- 86,400 seconds per day
- 31,536,000 seconds per year

= 10,000,000,00031,536,000≈317 years
or in standard number writing" 31,536,00010,000,000,000�≈317 years

To print a billion dollars using the same method would take 3 years and 32 weeks

If your printing press could print one hundred 100-dollar bills per second, it would still take you over 3 years to print it. So when you hear that the U.S. prints trillions of dollars to stimulate the economy, it is false. They don't print it, it is merely digital numbers typed into a ledger in accounting tables. Nothing is printed



The false assumption, known as "zero-sum mentality", is a case in which it is believed there is a set/limited amount of money available to spread the wealth, and that billionaires and millionaires have the greatest share. But that is impossible, as there are more births than deaths each year - not to mention inflation; hence, poverty would increase with each birth and uptick in inflation. Since the extremely wealthy have tens of millions/billions, it is only in the form of digital promises and non-monetary assets (not like Scrooge McDuck with a room of gold coins to swim in). The source of monetary supply is continually growing, albeit in the form of digital promissory notes

If everyone in the U.S. went to the bank to withdraw their money, the U.S. banking would collapse in less than a day and throw the world into fiscal chaos and ruin

When someon says, "it's not worth the paper it's printed on", it's actually worse than that because there is not enough printed money to back up actual money that belongs to citizens

1. Physical U.S. Currency in Circulation (M0 Money Supply)

    As of recent estimates, there is about $2.3 trillion in total U.S. paper money and coins circulating worldwide.
    However, a large portion of this cash is held outside the U.S. or by banks, businesses, and governments rather than individuals.

2. Total U.S. Money Supply (M2)

    The broader money supply, including checking accounts, savings accounts, and money market funds, is around $20 trillion (M2).
    This represents money that can be easily accessed but still isn't the total wealth.

3. Total U.S. Wealth

    The total net worth of the U.S. (including real estate, stocks, businesses, savings, and other assets) was about $150 trillion in recent estimates.)

In the early 20th century, Charlie Chaplin became a huge star. His look was iconic and known to everyone. Because of this, there were multiple "Chaplin Lookalike" contests to find the person who most resembled the real Charlie Chaplin. Chaplin decided to surprise the guys in one of the contests by entering the contest himself without revealing his name

He came in 20th

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on March 21, 2025, 03:07:40 PMIn the early 20th century, Charlie Chaplin became a huge star. His look was iconic and known to everyone. Because of this, there were multiple "Chaplin Lookalike" contests to find the person who most resembled the real Charlie Chaplin. Chaplin decided to surprise the guys in one of the contests by entering the contest himself without revealing his name

He came in 20th

I knew that.

Quote from: LennG on March 21, 2025, 04:04:34 PMI knew that.

Yeah, but did you know that I came in 19th place? 

Quote from: Sem on March 21, 2025, 05:00:34 PMYeah, but did you know that I came in 19th place? 

Were you wearing your 'Little Tramp' outfit?    

I was the subject of a joke at Universal Studios back in the 90's. A stunt scene was going to be performed in a large area with bleachers for people to watch. As I entered the area, a guy dressed exactly like Chaplin's tramp persona, and looked like every picture I'd ever seen of Chaplin, insisted on escorting me to my seat. I obliged. I kept hitting myself on the side of my head because it felt like a mosquito or some bug was on my ear or in my hair (something I used to have a lot of - hair, not bugs). Every time I slapped my own head, the crowd in the bleachers would roar with laughter and the Chaplin lookalike would stop and look at me like, "what's wrong". Then we'd start up again, and he'd do it again (wash and repeat).

Anyway, he was using a cane in the opposite side of him that had a feather or something attached to it, and he would slip it behind my head/ear and tickle me with it in such a way as I could not tell where the feeling came from. Anyway, about the 4th time I slapped the side of my head, I figured out what was going on (yeah, I'm a little slow). We all had a good laugh at my expense and the guy shook my hand and thanked me for being a good sport before I sat down

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on March 14, 2025, 12:42:17 PMI just learned something I didn't know...and it's disappointing 

The Statue of Liberty - the world's most recognized symbol of freedom, was originally intended for Egypt, which ultimately rejected it for being too old-fashioned. The decision came as a huge disappointment to Lady Liberty's creator, Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi, who had envisioned the Suez Canal as the ideal venue for his mammoth harbor structure. Inspired by the grandeur of the Sphinx and the pyramids, Bartholdi sought to craft a colossal masterpiece. When Egypt declined his proposal, the artist shifted his attention to America, a nation flourishing in the post-Civil War era—where his vision ultimately found its home



I always thought the Statue of Liberty was a gift to the U.S. because of our ties to France as they helped in our War of Independence and our success encouraged them to do the same in France. But designed for Egypt??? Too "old-fashioned"??? what do you call the pyramids, the sphinx, and other structures thousands of years old? I woulda never thunk it 

It is believed that 🗽 was inspired by Libertas, the Roman goddess of freedom, is the inspiration for the statue's design.

I watched a NatGeo documentary one time which postulated that Bartholdi may have also been inspired by the Greek God Helios, as summarized in the AI description as follows:

The Statue of Liberty, while inspired by the Roman goddess Libertas, is also seen as echoing the symbolism and harbor-side placement of the ancient Colossus of Rhodes, a statue of the Greek god Helios (the sun god).

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Colossus of Rhodes: This ancient statue, built between 292 to 280 BC, stood at the harbor entrance of Rhodes, facing ships entering the harbor.

Helios: The Colossus of Rhodes was a statue of Helios, the Greek god of the sun, and was one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.

The Statue of Liberty, designed by Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi, is a colossal neoclassical sculpture on Liberty Island in New York Harbor. 

Symbolism: Both the ancient Colossus of Rhodes and the modern Statue of Liberty were monuments dedicated to independence and liberty. 

Libertas: The Statue of Liberty is often considered to be modeled after the Roman goddess of liberty, Libertas. 

Crown: The crown worn by the Statue of Liberty, with its seven rays, is seen as a halo representing the sun, the seven seas, and the seven continents. 

Inspiration: The sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi was inspired by sculptures of Hecate and the god Helios for the design of the Statue of Liberty. 

Hope this extra tidbit on the making of Lady Liberty brightens your day, as it had the immigrants arriving in New York harbor upon laying eyes on her for the very first time.

Peace!

 

That's fascinating, Chris...thanks for the "Cliff note" summary. It's news to me. I am well aware of the Colossus of Rhodes, but unaware it inspired the artist. I wonder why he would build it and not put it in France somewhere. It would seem like he would have put it on the River Seine as it enters Paris or something. Maybe on the English Channel at the costal port in Le Havre at the mouth of the Seine

Seems weird to undertake such a significant, monstrous project of art, only to search for a country to take it off his hands. It's kind of disappointing (to me anyway) that he didn't plan it for the U.S. in the first place. I always thought it was a gift from France in recognition of our successful forced independence from England, and also as that success inspired the French Revolution

Dean Martin was very popular among fans of the Rat Pack, or just because of his crooning, which was incredible. What you probably didn't know, he barely drank alcohol during his life, yet crafted a persona of a drunk, which delighted many fans, so he played it up. He carried a glass of apple juice on stage. It was all an act

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on March 25, 2025, 10:52:30 AMDean Martin was very popular among fans of the Rat Pack, or just because of his crooning, which was incredible. What you probably didn't know, he barely drank alcohol during his life, yet crafted a persona of a drunk, which delighted many fans, so he played it up. He carried a glass of apple juice on stage. It was all an act

Didn't know that. He sure had me fooled.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on March 25, 2025, 10:52:30 AMDean Martin was very popular among fans of the Rat Pack, or just because of his crooning, which was incredible. What you probably didn't know, he barely drank alcohol during his life, yet crafted a persona of a drunk, which delighted many fans, so he played it up. He carried a glass of apple juice on stage. It was all an act

 I hate to be a 'know-it-all, ' but I did know that also. My wife is a huge fan of Dino, we have many of his TV shows on DVD along with many of this 'roasts'. And that was one thing she always kept telling me, the drunk thing was all an act. He rarely drank alcohol.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on March 22, 2025, 07:43:50 PMThat's fascinating, Chris...thanks for the "Cliff note" summary. It's news to me. I am well aware of the Colossus of Rhodes, but unaware it inspired the artist. I wonder why he would build it and not put it in France somewhere. It would seem like he would have put it on the River Seine as it enters Paris or something. Maybe on the English Channel at the costal port in Le Havre at the mouth of the Seine

Seems weird to undertake such a significant, monstrous project of art, only to search for a country to take it off his hands. It's kind of disappointing (to me anyway) that he didn't plan it for the U.S. in the first place. I always thought it was a gift from France in recognition of our successful forced independence from England, and also as that success inspired the French Revolution

Hi Ric.

You would have to literally retrace Bartholdi's life journey to capture the points in his life which conjured the inspiration behind not only his concept of "Liberty Enlightening the World," but the innovative engineering design of Liberty's structural frame and the precise calculations of sheet copper thickness, and the manner which it attached to the frame, which allowed the final statue to withstand the weather and chemical impact of residing in New York harbor for nearly a century prior to its renovation ahead of its Centennial celebration in 1986.

So, remember that Bartholdi was born in the 1830s and, growing up in Paris, after his father died, became an astute sculptor, architect and designer. Keeping in mind that his country was ruled by Napolean, whose conquests in Egypt had brought "Egyptology" to France, Bartholdi was influenced early in his life where his travels had taken him into Egypt and expanded his artistic mind into building massive statues of grand design. This would be around the 1850s which was an exciting period when hieroglyphics were finally deciphered using the "Rosetta Stone" by Jean Francois Champollion. He would view the Pyramids, including the Sphinx, at Giza, the Colossi of Memnon, and the great temples of the Pharaohs,  he delighted in recording these sites in drawings and photographs to serve as his inspiration for the masterpiece he would become renowned for.

It wasn't until the completion of the Suez Canal in 1869 that Bartholdi proposed building a colossal statue at Port Said, influenced by Helios, known as the "Statue of Rhodes," which was one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Bartholdi's version would be a female, serve as a lighthouse, and be entitled "Egypt Carrying the Light to Asia." Unfortunately, his proposal was firmly rejected by the ruling khedive and Bartholdi returned home, disappointed, and never visited the Middle East again. Little did he know that he had just developed the concept for what would one day become "Liberty Enlightening the World!"

The catalyst for bringing the Statue of Liberty to fruition was a dinner party of strongly individualist Frenchmen in the home of Édouard René de Laboulaye in Versailles in 1865. A gentleman, politician, president of the French Anti-Slavery Society and a strong supporter of the Union in the American Civil War, Monsieur Laboulaye suggested a gift to the United States a monument which, in turn, would influence the cause for democracy in France (NOTE: at the time, under the rule of Napolean III).

With the Franco-Prussian War in their midst, this group, and Bartholdi, with the aid of donations, and the artist himself making multiple trips across the waters to the United States, over a 20-year period, the idea finally became a reality in 1886.

Here are some references I used to help tell this story:

French history - The Statue of Liberty's French roots

Replicas of the Statue of Liberty

Beauty of History and Archaeology

I was fortunate enough, in 1981, to have the opportunity to visit Liberty Island as part of a school trip and, back then, I was able to walk up the spiral staircase, inside the very hot and stuffy statue, until reaching the crown and feeling the cool breeze coming off the bay. What an experience that was! Of course, this was just before they closed it all down for the renovation of the statue ahead of its Centennial in 1986. I haven't been to the island since, though I've since visited Ellis Island since they've opened it up for tourism and was very impressed knowing my Polish great-grandparents, both maternal and paternal, walked through there upon reaching this land nearly 125 years ago.

Lady Liberty still holds a fond and emotional place in my heart as a fourth-generation Polish Amercian.

Peace!

That's great info Chris...fascinating. Are you a history teacher/professor? History was always my first love, but math came easy and led to better jobs so I spent 2 1/2 years at SUNY Cortland as a sec. ed Math major, with a minor in programming. In my senior year, I was so sick of math that I switched my major to History so that I could work in a field I actually loved. Unfortunately, history is a BA, and math/programming was a BS. So I had to practically start over to get all the courses I didn't get including 4 semesters of advanced language (I took French). But as things go, I fell in love, quit school, got married and got a job so I could support my wife. I then transferred to Binghamton University and got my degree in engineering and also in operations management. Only reason I bring that up, is because I am seriously considering going back to school to get my masters in history. Since I'm 72, and a long time NY resident, everything is free (except the books). But I also know (after taking grad courses at BU and then Syr U) that grad courses are far easier than undergrad. There's really no reason for me to do it, but it would give me a chance to fill in a lot of holes in knowledge of world history...in particular, far eastern as well as ancient. Still kicking it around in my head as I figure out what to do with my life as a retiree. Between being a caretaker of my mother, who's in her 90's and needs a lot of help, I play guitar, follow the Giants, visit my kids and grandkids (even two great grandkids) and take time to go out with my buddies. I'm teaching two of my granddaughters how to play guitar. But if I was back in school, it'd structure my time better and I think it would be rewarding

So the historical aspect - as well as the engineering feat - is very interesting to me. Like you, I climbed the spiral staircase to the crown, but it was back in the 60's. I visited it with my daughter in 2000 and we went to the statue as well as to the top of the World Trade Center. Watching it collapse live on TV gave me even more chills as I remember looking down and wondering what would happen if the building ever went down. It was a terrifying thought. Then it did 

Anyway, thanks for the more in-depth history lesson