Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2025, 09:53:15 AMExactly,

I gave up a blue-chipper, but got another higher second-round pick (with the return being getting the hopeful QB of the future).  I thought it was a pretty good deal, as I like many of the options available in round 2.

I thought that you were a better GM than that???  LOL!!

Dumpster Dan

Quote from: Dumpster Dan on April 23, 2025, 10:01:46 AMI thought that you were a better GM than that???  LOL!!

Dumpster Dan

Dan,

I am not necessarily advocating for this course of action.  I wanted to use the mock draft simulator to try to see what one would get if the strategy were adopted.   If Todd McShay has it right, Schoen needs to get Jaxson Dart for Daboll.   His options are trading down or trading back into round one.  Which option would you prefer?

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2025, 10:04:14 AMDan,

I am not necessarily advocating for this course of action.  I wanted to use the mock draft simulator to try to see what one would get if the strategy were adopted.   If Todd McShay has it right, Schoen needs to get Jaxson Dart for Daboll.   His options are trading down or trading back into round one.  Which option would you prefer?

It would have to be trading back into the first round but not giving any 2026 draft picks in the trade .

I understand that Daboll likes Dart over the other QBs except maybe Ward and I understand that Schoen would like to please him if possible, but in my opinion , which might not be worth anything , If Nolan or Harmon are there at 34, I would take either one

Rich 

I said that I was old and that means not as sharp   where I am confused is that you started with 8 picks, traded back and only had 7 picks


Dan

Quote from: Dumpster Dan on April 23, 2025, 02:55:23 PMRich 

I said that I was old and that means not as sharp   where I am confused is that you started with 8 picks, traded back and only had 7 picks


Dan

Oh, I only do 5-round mocks.  The Giants still had two 7th rounders

Bingo!!!!!


Dan

two thoughts.  First, to the LT reference.  The Giants wanted a LB that year.  There were far fewer games on TV then and many people, myself included, not only never saw LT when he was at NC; lots never heard of him.  I doubt very much NC was on on local NY tv for any games.  I remember a lot of people wanting Hugh Green a good LB from Pittsburgh.  He was about 6'2 inch and 220 pounds. When the Giants drafted Taylor, he was listed something like 6'3 and 240 and faster than Green.  It took all of a few plays in a preseason game to see George Young knew what he was doing.

Second, if Carter is available at 3 and the Giants trade down, assuming the package is good, and I think some here have pie in the sky expectations, I could understand moving away from Carter.  This is supposed to be a great year for drafting edges so they should end with a good edge at some point in the draft and they obviously think Thibs and Burns plus someone good would be enough especially if they strengthen other weaknesses. Plus, there are still questions regarding Carter's health which might not show itself now but might in a few years.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 22, 2025, 08:34:38 PMI am more open to a trade-down than some in this thread appear to be. I certainly would not give the pick away for anything less than a very convincing package, but I also am not in the camp that it has to be an absurdly ridiculous offer to get me to bite. Any offer that involves a 2026 first rounder at least gets me on the phone. I simply don't believe our QB for the next decade is in this draft (that includes Ward btw), and I am of the opinion that next year's will have at least two or three who are better than any of this year's. Therefore I don't see why trading back for significant 2026 capital is a bad idea.

I do appreciate that trading back may forego a blue chip defensive player, and I also appreciate that fans are very justifiably tired of losing and want near term results instead of pissing away another season and kicking the can. I totally get that, and I am sympathetic to that view myself in many ways. I just think until you have a real QB, you're one of the have-nots in this league, and I think it's very disruptive to force a QB pick and then spend years trying to convince yourself that player is something he is not. We just got through six (yes, six) years of that, and I really don't want to do it again. If trading down gets us another first rounder next year and puts us in a position to draft a better prospect than what we have access to this year, I don't see how that can be such a bad thing.

This is why sometimes I think you're reading my mind or, quite possibly, vice-versa. I highlighted key points in your message above and, although this is nothing new, as far as the idea is concerned, the more we all discuss QBs on this forum, the greater my conviction is for the highlighted points above. Briefly:

You wrote:

Any offer that involves a 2026 first rounder at least gets me on the phone.

In reference to trading down, as much as I share the conviction with you that the best chance for success for a Giants' franchise QB is to use the 2025 draft to position themselves to get within striking distance to go all out and make a move for the best QB available in the 2026 draft. Of course, that means trading out of Pick #3 and seeing if a team will offer up their round one in 2026 AND, possibly, get a trading partner whose expected 2025 season performance will end up seeing the Giants picking in the top one to ten.

I am of the opinion that next year's will have at least two or three who are better than any of this year's.

That opinion is shared by more than just you and I.

We just got through six (yes, six) years of that, and I really don't want to do it again. If trading down gets us another first rounder next year and puts us in a position to draft a better prospect than what we have access to this year, I don't see how that can be such a bad thing.

Especially since the QB situation for season 2025 is settled, not only is it not a bad thing, it gives the Giants an open license to go after talent that can really help the team elsewhere than QB. In fact, it really opens the door for greater opportunity to allow the draft to come to them and seriously consider any serious offers to move down, if a team makes it worth their while. It gives them the entire draft board (after the Titans and Browns, of course) to choose from. Finally, if a trade down comes to fruition, they'll still be able to choose from a wide array of very good players who can either fill holes, build on strength areas or, if they wish, can roll the dice on a QB, such as Dart, especially if they've moved into the back half of the first round, and have the first round pick in 2026 from their trading partner plus additional draft capital. There are all kinds of possibilities for them but the one caveat I agree with you on is any move down MUST yield a 2026 first round draft pick.

Even if they do not pick a QB, or try to trade picks, they can still attack their draft board straight up and walk away a more talented team and, in the end, that is the most important take-away for the Giants this weekend.

Peace!

The last time the Giants traded down, they gave up drafting the best defensive player around in Parsons, for what?
I will be extremely pissed if we traded down and pass on this new, next generational defensive player.

Its almost zero chance there is a generational qb on the board in 2026 and it gets traded out of. I can't remember that ever happening. I think the Titans traded out to the rams 1 overall because they thought they had their guy Mariotta. But for a team to not have a qb and draft that high and trade out of it. Has almost basically zero chance of happening.

Quote from: Crypto Fareez on April 23, 2025, 11:04:56 PMIts almost zero chance there is a generational qb on the board in 2026 and it gets traded out of. I can't remember that ever happening. I think the Titans traded out to the rams 1 overall because they thought they had their guy Mariotta. But for a team to not have a qb and draft that high and trade out of it. Has almost basically zero chance of happening.

I have to agree, the idea of trading up to get your franchise QB seems less likely these days as teams will tend to draft them themselves

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 24, 2025, 07:07:22 AMI have to agree, the idea of trading up to get your franchise QB seems less likely these days as teams will tend to draft them themselves

The counterpoint is teams trade up in the draft all the time still if they have the capital to do so.

the 2nd counterpoint is if let's say you trade down and get the extra 2026 #1 next year. The NYG pick plus the other teams pick plus our 2027 #1 is a quite likely a MONSTROUS offer to move up.

If the other team is QB needy, yes that may not be enough, however there is USUALLY a non QB needy team in the top 4 or 5.

Lastly, next years draft has a decent shot of having a much higher rated QB (with the only exception as possibly Ward) available in the top 4 or 5.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 24, 2025, 08:17:38 AMThe counterpoint is teams trade up in the draft all the time still if they have the capital to do so.

the 2nd counterpoint is if let's say you trade down and get the extra 2026 #1 next year. The NYG pick plus the other teams pick plus our 2027 #1 is a quite likely a MONSTROUS offer to move up.

If the other team is QB needy, yes that may not be enough, however there is USUALLY a non QB needy team in the top 4 or 5.

Lastly, next years draft has a decent shot of having a much higher rated QB (with the only exception as possibly Ward) available in the top 4 or 5.

The key to being able to trade up is that the other team doesn't need a QB.  That isn't happening as often as it used to, because the teams that are bad tend to have a bad QB situation

Honestly, if Jacksonville have the first pick this year and there is a stud QB coming out, not sure they trade it.