Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 26, 2025, 05:51:44 AMWeak arm
Does not throw with anticipation
Takes too many sack
Time to throw is high
Threw too many contested passes
Passes requires Receiver tracking
Personality is glib
No vocal leadership presence
Meddling father
Felt entitled to pick his teams
Didn't prepare for interviews
Bad optics after dropping in 1st
Backup QB potential who needs development
Overachieved
Can't speak French

Stop it.

I remember you putting up a long post about how good he is. Might be worth digging it up.

None of this has anything to do with actual football and I think you all know it. Stop trying to rationalize this in football terms, nobody's buying it. A slip to the late 1st round or even early 2nd round? Maybe, okay. Undrafted after three rounds and passed over for QBs who can't hold a candle to him in terms of ability and accomplishments? Nah. That's nothing to do with football.

https://x.com/bleacherreport/status/1915977866606477733?s=12

Quote from: BlueMoshik on April 26, 2025, 06:21:07 AMStop it.

I remember you putting up a long post about how good he is. Might be worth digging it up.

None of this has anything to do with actual football and I think you all know it. Stop trying to rationalize this in football terms, nobody's buying it. A slip to the late 1st round or even early 2nd round? Maybe, okay. Undrafted after three rounds and passed over for QBs who can't hold a candle to him in terms of ability and accomplishments? Nah. That's nothing to do with football.

This is what teams saw. Embrace your conspiracy theories if you like. I did point out his attributes and he did have to deal with a horrible Offensive Line, but this drop was in part of his inability to improve his game, and his ego entitlement. He shot himself in the foot. And if you don't like my comment, i really don't care. Maybe I'll stalk you and jump down your throat. If you have a difference of opinion, post it Moshik. Your antics are old and tired.

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 26, 2025, 06:32:21 AMThis is what teams saw. Embrace your conspiracy theories if you like. I did point out his attributes and he did have to deal with a horrible Offensive Line, but this drop was in part of his inability to improve his game, and his ego entitlement. He shot himself in the foot. And if you don't like my comment, i really don't care. Maybe I'll stalk you and jump down your throat. If you have a difference of opinion, post it Moshik. Your antics are old and tired.

"Antics". "Stalking". Sure. Whatever you say. You're the admin of this board and can smear others posters as freely as you like.

I'm just saying I remember your post because you sang his praises as a QB and I paid attention. It makes sense, in football terms, for Sanders to drop to the lower 1st round or even 2nd round. That's happened before. But this kind of free fall is because of how he's perceived off the field. That's not a conspiracy theory. You are saying it yourself, but you feel the need to add football attributes as well, which don't really explain that far of a fall.

My two cents.

Anyway, on a lighter note, don't take it from me, take it from Donnie from Queens! 

https://x.com/jimgeraghty/status/1915901737241874877

Quote from: BlueMoshik on April 26, 2025, 06:47:33 AM"Antics". "Stalking". Sure. Whatever you say. You're the admin of this board and can smear others posters as freely as you like.

I'm just saying I remember your post because you sang his praises as a QB and I paid attention. It makes sense, in football terms, for Sanders to drop to the lower 1st round or even 2nd round. That's happened before. But this kind of free fall is because of how he's perceived off the field. That's not a conspiracy theory. You are saying it yourself, but you feel the need to add football attributes as well, which don't really explain that far of a fall.

My two cents.

Then be more respectful when you interact. He has beautiful mechanics and footwork. Going into this season, he looked t be the top QB in the class. He never improved his game. All those football issues are what teams saw in him, and they are obstacles to be successful at the next level. I saw him at the combine and his public interviews. He should have participated, instead of assuming he was a top pick. Teams see him as a backup QB that is not ready for prime time, and he carries baggage. On top of all that, once he dropped out of the first round, teams that had any interest questioned, what is wrong that we didn't pick up on. Instead of being humble after the first day, did his interview and tweets help him or hurt him? He's clearly not a leader. No accountability.

So whats your theory as they why he dropped so much?

We might have an opportunity for a trade down with someone wanting him to add a pick this year or next. That is as far as my Sanders interest goes.

At the end of the day, you had a productive college QB with 2nd round talent and habits, and a playing style that wouldn't translate to the NFL (like his holding on to the ball too long and retreating backward) who struggled against higher competition and ended his season on a sour note with a poor bowl-game performance.

Rather than bust his butt to try and erase the image of his bad bowl performance, he carried himself like he was a top 5 player (not just QB) in the draft.  He opted only to do interviews at the Shrine Bowl.  He didn't do anything at the Combine.   His Pro Day performance was underwhelming.

Now, throw in the concerns about having only played football with his dad as the head coach.  Throw in the distractions and nuisance that is his outspoken father and a sense of entitlement that showed through in his interviews, and you have the public and drastic fall we have witnessed over the past two nights. 

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 26, 2025, 07:06:54 AMThen be more respectful when you interact. He has beautiful mechanics and footwork. Going into this season, he looked t be the top QB in the class. He never improved his game. All those football issues are what teams saw in him, and they are obstacles to be successful at the next level. I saw him at the combine and his public interviews. He should have participated, instead of assuming he was a top pick. Teams see him as a backup QB that is not ready for prime time, and he carries baggage. On top of all that, once he dropped out of the first round, teams that had any interest questioned, what is wrong that we didn't pick up on. Instead of being humble after the first day, did his interview and tweets help him or hurt him? He's clearly not a leader. No accountability.

So whats your theory as they why he dropped so much?

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 26, 2025, 07:06:54 AMThen be more respectful when you interact. He has beautiful mechanics and footwork. Going into this season, he looked t be the top QB in the class. He never improved his game. All those football issues are what teams saw in him, and they are obstacles to be successful at the next level. I saw him at the combine and his public interviews. He should have participated, instead of assuming he was a top pick. Teams see him as a backup QB that is not ready for prime time, and he carries baggage. On top of all that, once he dropped out of the first round, teams that had any interest questioned, what is wrong that we didn't pick up on. Instead of being humble after the first day, did his interview and tweets help him or hurt him? He's clearly not a leader. No accountability.

So whats your theory as they why he dropped so much?

"Respectful" goes both ways, Sir. Not only towards you.

There's no "theory". The reasons are some of the ones you laid out. I agree he comes across poorly. I just don't think any football attributes explain a fall lower than late 1st round. To explain this kind of collapse, which is unprecedented in living memory for a guy who was as highly rated as him, we have to look at a league-wide perception that sees him as un-draftable. Part of it is how he comes off in interactions with coaches and GMs. Part of it is a lingering dislike of Deion's personality and the sense that the two come tied at the hip. Part of it is the sense is that he already has a brand like a guy who's been in the NFL for a while even before he's a rookie. He's already older than some of the other top guys drafted, including Dart. NFL teams like to draft guys who are impressionable and will listen to whatever they're told by their coaches. The sense with Shedeur is that he only listens to his dad and to himself and sees himself as a finished product. I don't know if that's true or not. A lot of guys including Jerry Jones and Sean Payton have vouched for him, and Mel Kiper, who knows about these things, seems utterly shocked by his fall. But that's the reputation he now has in the NFL and I don't know if he can overcome that. Some team will eventually take him, and this draft will either make or break his career. 

My own personal feeling as to why Sanders has dropped boils down to two things:


(1) More and more keeps coming out about his interviews and the extent to which he hurt himself in this part of the process. He reportedly came off as entitled and often unprepared in a number of them. In the pregame show on Thursday, McShay was saying that Daboll presented him with a straightforward install package, and Shedeur was totally unprepared. When Daboll called him out on it, Shedeur got all offended. I think there were other interviews that did not go well, and word got around. I suspect this absurd personal draft room he created rubbed people the wrong way, and then throwing your teammates under the bus publicly, which he has done, is a red line for a lot of people. Many teams may have simply decided they don't want him in their locker room, regardless of which round he is available.

(2) This is more of a theory, but I suspect there has long been a disconnect between perception and reality as to Sanders' level of play. He may be more of a media creation than an elite or even high end prospect. The media may have bought into Deion's hype machine, while the pro scouts and front offices may have simply been cooler on him this whole time. This has nothing to do with personality traits - they may have simply never liked him as much as the mocks and media types suggested. We have seen other hyped up QBs like Malik Willis, Matt Corral and Sam Howell fall precipitously relative to where the mocks and pundits had them going, right up into draft day. It's not like this is the first time something similar to this has happened. This one seems more dramatic because of all the hype, but that is sort of my point - was that hype ever real insofar as how teams felt about him, or was it a media creation, fueled by Deion and Shedeur himself?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 26, 2025, 07:25:11 AMMy own personal feeling as to why Sanders has dropped boils down to two things:


(1) More and more keeps coming out about his interviews and the extent to which he hurt himself in this part of the process. He reportedly came off as entitled and often unprepared in a number of them. In the pregame show on Thursday, McShay was saying that Daboll presented him with a straightforward install package, and Shedeur was totally unprepared. When Daboll called him out on it, Shedeur got all offended. I think there were other interviews that did not go well, and word got around. I suspect this absurd personal draft room he created rubbed people the wrong way, and then throwing your teammates under the bus publicly, which he has done, is a red line for a lot of people. Many teams may have simply decided they don't want him in their locker room, regardless of which round he in which he is available.

(2) This is more of a theory, but I suspect there has long been a disconnect between perception and reality as to Sanders' level of play. He may be more of a media creation than an elite or even high end prospect. The media may have bought into Deion's hype machine, while the pro scouts and front offices may have simply been cooler on him this whole time. This has nothing to do with personality traits - they may have simply never liked him as much as the mocks and media types suggested. We have seen other hyped up QBs like Malik Willis, Matt Corral and Sam Howell fall precipitously. It's not like this is the first time something similar to this has happened. This one seems more dramatic because of all the hype, but that is sort of my point - was that hype ever real insofar as how teams felt about him, or was it a media creation, fueled by Deion and Shedeur himself?

Point 1 I think makes a lot of sense.

Point 2 does not, to anyone who has actually seen him play, and has read the scouting reports on him. Yeah there was hype. But Shedeur, in terms of just his play, was no "media creation".

Bottom line, NFL teams will invest in guys they want, and they don't want Shedeur, because they don't like the guy, not the QB. 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 26, 2025, 07:25:11 AMMy own personal feeling as to why Sanders has dropped boils down to two things:


(1) More and more keeps coming out about his interviews and the extent to which he hurt himself in this part of the process. He reportedly came off as entitled and often unprepared in a number of them. In the pregame show on Thursday, McShay was saying that Daboll presented him with a straightforward install package, and Shedeur was totally unprepared. When Daboll called him out on it, Shedeur got all offended. I think there were other interviews that did not go well, and word got around. I suspect this absurd personal draft room he created rubbed people the wrong way, and then throwing your teammates under the bus publicly, which he has done, is a red line for a lot of people. Many teams may have simply decided they don't want him in their locker room, regardless of which round he in which he is available.

(2) This is more of a theory, but I suspect there has long been a disconnect between perception and reality as to Sanders' level of play. He may be more of a media creation than an elite or even high end prospect. The media may have bought into Deion's hype machine, while the pro scouts and front offices may have simply been cooler on him this whole time. This has nothing to do with personality traits - they may have simply never liked him as much as the mocks and media types suggested. We have seen other hyped up QBs like Malik Willis, Matt Corral and Sam Howell fall precipitously. It's not like this is the first time something similar to this has happened. This one seems more dramatic because of all the hype, but that is sort of my point - was that hype ever real insofar as how teams felt about him, or was it a media creation, fueled by Deion and Shedeur himself?

You know, Gruden's QB school can be quite enlightening, even though Sanders didn't go.  One thing I picked up on in the Dart session was that Gruden deliberately criticized Dart.  It wasn't because he did something that needed criticizing, but the coach wanted to see how the player handled being criticized, which is going to happen in the NFL.

If Sanders didn't handle criticism well (and his dad has been his HC his whole life), that would be a big issue for coaches and teams.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on April 26, 2025, 07:29:53 AMPoint 1 I think makes a lot of sense.

Point 2 does not, to anyone who has actually seen him play, and has read the scouting reports on him. Yeah there was hype. But Shedeur, in terms of just his play, was no "media creation".

Bottom line, NFL teams will invest in guys they want, and they don't want Shedeur, because they don't like the guy, not the QB. 

If they liked the QB, they'd deal with the guy. It's that simple. QB has become a high ceiling position and teams just aren't looking for pocket passers with mediocre arms. If he had elite physical traits, he would have gone 1-1, but he doesn't and teams just don't want to deal with the circus that comes with a mid-tier QB.

When you have a pretty hard ceiling as a player due to a lack of physical gifts, you simply can't treat the process like he did.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on April 26, 2025, 07:18:06 AM"Respectful" goes both ways, Sir. Not only towards you.
I've never treated you with the disrespect you laid out on me this morning. You could have disagreed and stated your own reasons. It was more than being a critic.

There's no "theory". The reasons are some of the ones you laid out. I agree he comes across poorly. I just don't think any football attributes explain a fall lower than late 1st round. To explain this kind of collapse, which is unprecedented in living memory for a guy who was as highly rated as him, we have to look at a league-wide perception that sees him as un-draftable. Part of it is how he comes off in interactions with coaches and GMs. Part of it is a lingering dislike of Deion's personality and the sense that the two come tied at the hip. Part of it is the sense is that he already has a brand like a guy who's been in the NFL for a while even before he's a rookie. He's already older than some of the other top guys drafted, including Dart. NFL teams like to draft guys who are impressionable and will listen to whatever they're told by their coaches. The sense with Shedeur is that he only listens to his dad and to himself and sees himself as a finished product. I don't know if that's true or not. A lot of guys including Jerry Jones and Sean Payton have vouched for him, and Mel Kiper, who knows about these things, seems utterly shocked by his fall. But that's the reputation he now has in the NFL and I don't know if he can overcome that. Some team will eventually take him, and this draft will either make or break his career. 

Ok, so going along with your thinking, his critical mistake was to not hire an Agent, who would be brutally honest with him, prepare him for the Combine, prepare him for public persona and interviews-twitter, prepare him to answer questions on his visits, and what to say and what not to say. Teams are extremely anal in their interview and research process for a Franchise or Starting QB. If they get it wrong it can have repercussions that last many years. Gettleman knew this, he just didn't practice it. He put the Giants in QB Hell. 

I suspect the unprecedented fall by Sanders, combined with his high profile (how many prospects have the President chiming in?), may have teams shying away from him at this point.  Any team that drafts Sanders at this point invites a media circus and distraction into their building