Big Blue Huddle

I said it before, and now that reports are leaking that it's true makes me sick.

NO PLAN DOLAN sticking his dirty hands in the mud again!

YOU DON'T MAKE THESE DECISIONS OUT OF EMOTION, AND CERTAINLY NOT WITHOUT A PLAN!!

I was hoping against hope that they moved on from Thibs because they already had his successor in mind. Someone who could take us to the next level. I believed that Leon Rose had at least that much foresight.

Instead, they rip off the proverbial scab only to find a sucking chest wound underneath and no doctor or paramedic in sight. This is the worst possible outcome.

I have said this before and he quieted me for a bit by steering clear: As long as Jimmy owns this team, it will never win a championship. 52 years and counting.

Whether true or not since Snyder is gone Dolan has to do something to maintain his worst owner in any sport status.

Do the Knicks have a real plan for replacing Thibs?  Athletic reporting that asking only about employed HCs is because they want to see who is really available.  Also they are only team looking for a HC so they are not in a rush.  I dont buy it.

They dont seem to have an available dream guy.

Quote from: Philosophers on June 12, 2025, 08:39:32 AMDo the Knicks have a real plan for replacing Thibs?  Athletic reporting that asking only about employed HCs is because they want to see who is really available.  Also they are only team looking for a HC so they are not in a rush.  I dont buy it.

They dont seem to have an available dream guy.

I belong to a paid site that covers the search for a HC. I'll present snipits from several articles and you can draw your own conclusion

"Strike one: Ime Udoka.

Strike two: Chris Finch.

And as of Wednesday, strike three: Jason Kidd.

The Knicks' coaching search after firing Tom Thibodeau last week isn't off to a hot start.

(And that wasn't counting Quin Snyder or Billy Donovan, not to mention Jay Wright.)

The Mavericks denied the Knicks permission to interview Kidd, their current head coach. There is mutual interest between the Hall of Famer and the Knicks, and he has previous experience coaching Jalen Brunson, which he did for one year. Kidd still could force his way out of Dallas, where he is under contract through the 2026-27 season."

A different source:

"Unfortunately for the Knicks, that diligence led to firm "absolutely not" replies from the teams currently contractually tied to Ime Udoka, Chris Finch, Quin Snyder, Billy Donovan and Jason Kidd.

So you can scratch them off the list (though maybe not Kidd, as we'll explain later), along with Jay Wright (enjoying retirement) and Danny Hurley (indicated he's not interested).

So where do the Knicks go from here? Below is an updated list of potential candidates, as gathered through reporting:

Top contenders

Taylor Jenkins

The 40-year-old is a free agent after getting canned by the Grizzlies in the middle of the season. He has fans in the Knicks organization and demonstrated — at least in the regular season — that he can thrive with a ball-dominant point guard. That's relevant for a team with Jalen Brunson.

Mike Brown

Just two years removed from winning Coach of the Year, Brown is again available after the Kings fired him last season. He's guided all the recent greats as either a head coach or an assistant, including Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Steph Curry and Kevin Durant. That's quite a wealth of superstar experience

Next tier
Jason Kidd

The Mavericks declined the Knicks' request to hire Kidd, but there's a chance, albeit small, this isn't over. Why? Kidd, according to sources, is angling for a contract extension from the Mavericks. If he doesn't get one and the Knicks offer, let's say, a five-year deal, it's possible Kidd makes it so uncomfortable for the Mavericks that the owner decides it's better to let him go than risk dysfunction.

The interest between the Knicks and Kidd is mutual, per sources, with James Dolan and Brunson said to be fans. But the logistics make this tough — especially because the Knicks can't wait forever to establish somebody on their sideline.

Mike Budenholzer

A championship coach who was just fired by the Suns because he couldn't get them close to contention. Has a strong history from his seasons with the Bucks and Hawks, but that stain of the Phoenix tenure is tough to wash away.

Frank Vogel

Another championship coach who was actually fairly close to winning the Knicks job in 2016, before it went to Jeff Hornacek. Vogel has bounced around a lot, but, outside of his Orlando stint, has produced victories.

Michael Malone

A third championship coach who is on the market. Originally, I reported Malone was not a candidate for the Knicks. My latest intel suggests he could get an interview, but remains a long-shot choice.
Johnnie Bryant

His name has been thrown around since the moment Thibodeau was fired, but I don't get the sense he's a leading candidate. Bryant, a current assistant with the Cavaliers, has been interviewed at least twice for the top spots in Detroit and Phoenix. His connection to the Knicks is as the associate head coach for four seasons below Thibodeau, when Bryant displayed his aptitude for building relationships with players. As the Knicks front office probably ascertained in those years, Bryant isn't much of a grinder, but he connects with players. It's pretty much the opposite of Thibodeau.

Luke Walton

The current Pistons top assistant underwhelmed in his two head coaching opportunities, but his name has come up in my conversations with people around the league.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on June 12, 2025, 09:26:28 AMI belong to a paid site that covers the search for a HC. I'll present snipits from several articles and you can draw your own conclusion

"Strike one: Ime Udoka.

Strike two: Chris Finch.

And as of Wednesday, strike three: Jason Kidd.

The Knicks' coaching search after firing Tom Thibodeau last week isn't off to a hot start.

(And that wasn't counting Quin Snyder or Billy Donovan, not to mention Jay Wright.)

The Mavericks denied the Knicks permission to interview Kidd, their current head coach. There is mutual interest between the Hall of Famer and the Knicks, and he has previous experience coaching Jalen Brunson, which he did for one year. Kidd still could force his way out of Dallas, where he is under contract through the 2026-27 season."

A different source:

"Unfortunately for the Knicks, that diligence led to firm "absolutely not" replies from the teams currently contractually tied to Ime Udoka, Chris Finch, Quin Snyder, Billy Donovan and Jason Kidd.

So you can scratch them off the list (though maybe not Kidd, as we'll explain later), along with Jay Wright (enjoying retirement) and Danny Hurley (indicated he's not interested).

So where do the Knicks go from here? Below is an updated list of potential candidates, as gathered through reporting:

Top contenders

Taylor Jenkins

The 40-year-old is a free agent after getting canned by the Grizzlies in the middle of the season. He has fans in the Knicks organization and demonstrated — at least in the regular season — that he can thrive with a ball-dominant point guard. That's relevant for a team with Jalen Brunson.

Mike Brown

Just two years removed from winning Coach of the Year, Brown is again available after the Kings fired him last season. He's guided all the recent greats as either a head coach or an assistant, including Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Steph Curry and Kevin Durant. That's quite a wealth of superstar experience

Next tier
Jason Kidd

The Mavericks declined the Knicks' request to hire Kidd, but there's a chance, albeit small, this isn't over. Why? Kidd, according to sources, is angling for a contract extension from the Mavericks. If he doesn't get one and the Knicks offer, let's say, a five-year deal, it's possible Kidd makes it so uncomfortable for the Mavericks that the owner decides it's better to let him go than risk dysfunction.

The interest between the Knicks and Kidd is mutual, per sources, with James Dolan and Brunson said to be fans. But the logistics make this tough — especially because the Knicks can't wait forever to establish somebody on their sideline.

Mike Budenholzer

A championship coach who was just fired by the Suns because he couldn't get them close to contention. Has a strong history from his seasons with the Bucks and Hawks, but that stain of the Phoenix tenure is tough to wash away.

Frank Vogel

Another championship coach who was actually fairly close to winning the Knicks job in 2016, before it went to Jeff Hornacek. Vogel has bounced around a lot, but, outside of his Orlando stint, has produced victories.

Michael Malone

A third championship coach who is on the market. Originally, I reported Malone was not a candidate for the Knicks. My latest intel suggests he could get an interview, but remains a long-shot choice.
Johnnie Bryant

His name has been thrown around since the moment Thibodeau was fired, but I don't get the sense he's a leading candidate. Bryant, a current assistant with the Cavaliers, has been interviewed at least twice for the top spots in Detroit and Phoenix. His connection to the Knicks is as the associate head coach for four seasons below Thibodeau, when Bryant displayed his aptitude for building relationships with players. As the Knicks front office probably ascertained in those years, Bryant isn't much of a grinder, but he connects with players. It's pretty much the opposite of Thibodeau.

Luke Walton

The current Pistons top assistant underwhelmed in his two head coaching opportunities, but his name has come up in my conversations with people around the league.

Great summary.  Leaves me feeling way more downside risk now as none of the available tier guys make me feel good.

My reaction to when a team fires a head coach or manager is always based on who will be the replacement unless its a no brainer like Joe Judge where virtually anyone will be an upgrade.  When Thibs was fired, my assumption was that Leon Rose made the decision that was approved by Dolan and that there was a plan in place.  It appears now that that theory was totally wrong.  I'm now of a mind that this was all Dolan and Rose either agreed or just went along with it.  If true, I'm now of the mind that Thibs' replacement will be a downgrade with the only question being how much of a downgrade.  Is there any possibility that they change their mind and rehire Thibs?  He had a few years on his contract

Quote from: nb587 on June 13, 2025, 12:54:20 PMMy reaction to when a team fires a head coach or manager is always based on who will be the replacement unless its a no brainer like Joe Judge where virtually anyone will be an upgrade.  When Thibs was fired, my assumption was that Leon Rose made the decision that was approved by Dolan and that there was a plan in place.  It appears now that that theory was totally wrong.  I'm now of a mind that this was all Dolan and Rose either agreed or just went along with it.  If true, I'm now of the mind that Thibs' replacement will be a downgrade with the only question being how much of a downgrade.  Is there any possibility that they change their mind and rehire Thibs?  He had a few years on his contract

From all I've read, the single person who insisted that Thibs should go, was Dolan. Rose was against it until Dolan put the pressure on him to go along...and of course, the man who writes the paycheck usually gets his way. Not sure what Dolan's problem with Thibs was, maybe personal 

It was stupid to not have a coach in mind before firing the guy who took the team to the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 years, which is phenomenal when considering the history of the Knicks. On the bright side, no other team in the NBA is searching for a new head coach except the Knicks, which is nice that we don't need to get into a bidding war with another team

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on June 13, 2025, 01:30:07 PMFrom all I've read, the single person who insisted that Thibs should go, was Dolan. Rose was against it until Dolan put the pressure on him to go along...and of course, the man who writes the paycheck usually gets his way. Not sure what Dolan's problem with Thibs was, maybe personal 

It was stupid to not have a coach in mind before firing the guy who took the team to the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 years, which is phenomenal when considering the history of the Knicks. On the bright side, no other team in the NBA is searching for a new head coach except the Knicks, which is nice that we don't need to get into a bidding war with another team

I don't care about a bidding war unless you mean draft choices.  That said, for all of Thibs faults, the way it looks now, whoever they hire is not likely to be an upgrade.  I've been a Knicks fan since the 1950s. For a long time, until the recent past, the team was an embarrassment. Prior to the firing, it looked like we were beyond the BS and now the f...ind Dolan brought us back to those sorry days.

Quote from: nb587 on June 13, 2025, 12:54:20 PMMy reaction to when a team fires a head coach or manager is always based on who will be the replacement unless its a no brainer like Joe Judge where virtually anyone will be an upgrade.  When Thibs was fired, my assumption was that Leon Rose made the decision that was approved by Dolan and that there was a plan in place.  It appears now that that theory was totally wrong.  I'm now of a mind that this was all Dolan and Rose either agreed or just went along with it.  If true, I'm now of the mind that Thibs' replacement will be a downgrade with the only question being how much of a downgrade.  Is there any possibility that they change their mind and rehire Thibs?  He had a few years on his contract

I'd be shocked if that happened. Like beyond shocked. Has that ever happened in sports before? I can't think of a single time.

I'm talking about where a coach who was fired in an offseason (actively terminated while under contract, not temporarily suspended, and not a situation where his contract ran out and they wanted to think about it) was re-hired in the same offseason. You just never see that. This felt like a situation where the decision was final.

I dont want to see the Knicks pay to bring in a new coach.

I think I saw Colin Cowherd explain it the best. The Knicks thrived when Dolan was gone building the sphere and he was distracted with other things. Dolan loves hanging around Artists, Celebrities, and being cool Thibs was not that.

The NBA is really more of a players' league than the NFL.

To be clear, I'm not saying coaching doesn't matter. It clearly does. I just don't think it matters as much as it does in football.

The Knicks had very good coaches in the past but had bad players, and they stunk. The good coaches didn't help. D'Antoni, Lenny Wilkens, and Larry Brown all had tons of success with other teams and none with the Knicks. That wasn't because they were good coaches elsewhere and then suddenly became bad on the Knicks. It's because the players were bad.

While this next hire is important, it isn't life and death.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 13, 2025, 05:13:43 PMThe NBA is really more of a players' league than the NFL.

To be clear, I'm not saying coaching doesn't matter. It clearly does. I just don't think it matters as much as it does in football.

The Knicks had very good coaches in the past but had bad players, and they stunk. The good coaches didn't help. D'Antoni, Lenny Wilkens, and Larry Brown all had tons of success with other teams and none with the Knicks. That wasn't because they were good coaches elsewhere and then suddenly became bad on the Knicks. It's because the players were bad.

While this next hire is important, it isn't life and death.

none of this us life or death but coaching is huge in bball.  Look at the Pistons & Cavaliers this year.  What's disturbing about the Knicks for me is that its looking like the no nothings are in control again.  I'm hoping Rose can pull something off because these past few years might prove to be just a tease

This is so sad.  Now we will get a HC who had maybe 1 year of top level success then flamed out for some apparent reason.  Is that really better than Thibs?

Thibs only had a partial season to get KAT to improve his D.  He deserved more time.  Frankly we should not even be having this discussion.  Rose should have called Thibs and said, "for next year your areas of improvement as a HC have to be to get KAT to play better D and to use a deeper bench consistently."

That would be fair constructive criticism and he would know clearly what he has to do.  He should get more credit for developing IQ, Grimes, etc.

There's rumors that piss me off. Talking trading KAT, along with either OG or Robinson, and next available 1st rd draft pick for the oft-injured aged Kevin Durant. That is exactly the moronic kind of crap that put the Knicks in a three-decade hole and no way out...trading the young farm of up-n-comers for one over-the-hill aging star (KD is 36 [KAT 7 yrs younger with nearly identical stats] and looking for a 4-5 year contract). That kind of trade has Dolan written all over it, and the kind of idea that Thibs would scoff at, which might be why he's gone. And KD is an offensive juggernaut, and not exactly a defensive wunderkind

If that happens, I will stop watching the Knicks     

It took a wildly savvy GM and HC to build this team over the past 5 years, and the team is young and not even close to reaching their potential. I pray they don't flush all the good for one old guy who gets traded more often than baseball cards in second grade (well, that was common in the 50's and 50s)