Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Slugs Narrows on July 21, 2022, 10:34:36 AMvac·cine
/vakˈsēn/
a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases

Immunity being the KEY WORD and this shot is proven not to make you immune!

Seeing as it doesn't produce immunity and only helps lessen symptoms (which is a good thing don't get me wrong it's saving lives) it's not a vaccine.  Calling it as such I think IN MY OPINION- is misleading!

People hear vaccine they think small pox, chick pox, measles, etc type that you get the shot and you won't catch it!

Seeing as "the president" is vaxxed and boosted till the cows come home and just got it, it doesn't provide immunity, again hence not a vaccine!


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https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

Definition of Terms
Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.

Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.

Paul,

I think it comes down to a matter of semantics. There is a clear distinction between vaccination and immunization.

It has been stated numerous times that the COVID vaccine DOES NOT make one immune. Its purpose is to help the body develop antibodies to fight the disease and lessen the effects of symptoms.

Quote from: T200 on July 21, 2022, 10:43:40 AMhttps://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

Definition of Terms
Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.

Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.

Paul,

I think it comes down to a matter of semantics. There is a clear distinction between vaccination and immunization.

It has been stated numerous times that the COVID vaccine DOES NOT make one immune. Its purpose is to help the body develop antibodies to fight the disease and lessen the effects of symptoms.

T

I get it but in our lifetime vaccine has = immunity.

Yes it's semantics maybe and NOW it is know that it doesn't make you immune but it's not how we were originally sold on this.

That is my issue with it! 

I'm for getting the shot, just hate the terminology associated with it.  Again just my opinion which isn't worth crap! Lol


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Quote from: Slugs Narrows on July 21, 2022, 10:48:30 AMT

I get it but in our lifetime vaccine has = immunity.

Yes it's semantics maybe and NOW it is know that it doesn't make you immune but it's not how we were originally sold on this.

That is my issue with it! 

I'm for getting the shot, just hate the terminology associated with it.  Again just my opinion which isn't worth crap! Lol


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If we're being honest, not every news outlet said the COVID vaccine would provide protection/immunization from getting COVID. There are some that did and some that did not. There are also pockets of the internet that falsely stated that the COVID vaccines would prevent infection.

It all comes down to education. The link I posted as well as the excerpt puts it clearly in black and white. Unfortunately the truth has been misrepresented and people don't do the research for themselves.

It's like my post above about monkeypox. I trust Rich's expertise and experience. Yet, I still opened up a tab and Googled "how is monkeypox transmitted." Trust... but verify.

Quote from: T200 on July 21, 2022, 10:56:39 AMIf we're being honest, not every news outlet said the COVID vaccine would provide protection/immunization from getting COVID. There are some that did and some that did not. There are also pockets of the internet that falsely stated that the COVID vaccines would prevent infection.

It all comes down to education. The link I posted as well as the excerpt puts it clearly in black and white. Unfortunately the truth has been misrepresented and people don't do the research for themselves.

It's like my post above about monkeypox. I trust Rich's expertise and experience. Yet, I still opened up a tab and Googled "how is monkeypox transmitted." Trust... but verify.

T

Sadly not everyone does their own research. They follow blindly and believe what's fed to them.  It's good that you do so!  If more people did things would be vastly different I believe.


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@Ed Vette is correct.  The Covid Vaccine is a vaccine.  The vaccine's effectiveness is not part of the definition.  Over time as the virus has mutated, the vaccine has been less effective in terms of preventing infections but is still very effective in preventing serious illness.

I can't stress enough that one needs to carefully vet their sources when discussing medical issues, as there is quite a bit of misinformation out there, as @Slugs Narrows comments demonstrated.

See, here is the problem when people on social media and even some less reputable news sites start commenting on fields like medicine/public health is that they skip over the basics.  One of the things I learned in life is the first thing one must do, regardless of the field one is endeavoring to learn, are you need to learn the language

Here are the vaccine basics (starting with definitions) from the CDC

Definition of Terms

Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.

Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.


Now you will notice that a vaccine does not need to make one "immune"; it just has to provide "protection."

Seeing how one's health is at stake, I am surprised that so many people will listen to the uninformed and often incorrect opinions coming from unqualified people. 

I received my second Covid booster on May 20th, during the same visit I received my second of two Shingrix vaccines. I have not had Covid, nor has my wife who is waiting until fall for her second booster.

Quote from: Slugs Narrows on July 21, 2022, 11:02:19 AMT

Sadly not everyone does their own research. They follow blindly and believe what's fed to them.  It's good that you do so!  If more people did things would be vastly different I believe.


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I completely agree. But when you say "it's not how we were originally sold on this," it perpetuates the false narrative. I'm not trying to call you out but I see that statement as the same regurgitation by many who were against the vaccine from day 1.

Anyway... back on topic.

Quote from: T200 on July 21, 2022, 11:16:30 AMI completely agree. But when you say "it's not how we were originally sold on this," it perpetuates the false narrative. I'm not trying to call you out but I see that statement as the same regurgitation by many who were against the vaccine from day 1.

T

When Biden gets up and tells the people to get the shot to prevent getting covid which he did say and then AP fact checkers have verified it's an issue cause people will take that as fact and not do their own research!

There were issues on both sides of this, the Anti-Vax crowd was ignorant on their statements and so were others on the other side claiming it protected you more then it did.

Hence why I agree to do your own homework.  I knew getting the jab it wasn't going to stop me from being exposed or catching it but it would reduce the symptoms. I had friends and family that thought cause they got the shot they were immune cause they got the vaccine and their argument was just like Mumps measles etc they are now going to be immune.

I know Rich gets defensive on this topic and other may not agree with me but the wording and statement of things matters and when people are being told things just to push an agenda or things are mislabeled or explained it's an issue!  I'm not saying I'm perfect or right and hence why I say often in my opinion. And I will keep saying in my opinion this is not a vaccine.  Vaccines lead to antibodies that lead to immunity.  This isn't a preventative.  This is like taking theraflu in needle form.  It lessens the symptoms to help ya fight it off.  It's a medication to me more then anything.  Again my opinion/belief!

 


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Quote from: Slugs Narrows on July 21, 2022, 11:26:26 AMT

When Biden gets up and tells the people to get the shot to prevent getting covid which he did say and then AP fact checkers have verified it's an issue cause people will take that as fact and not do their own research!

There were issues on both sides of this, the Anti-Vax crowd was ignorant on their statements and so were others on the other side claiming it protected you more then it did.

Hence why I agree to do your own homework.  I knew getting the jab it wasn't going to stop me from being exposed or catching it but it would reduce the symptoms. I had friends and family that thought cause they got the shot they were immune cause they got the vaccine and their argument was just like Mumps measles etc they are now going to be immune.

I know Rich gets defensive on this topic and other may not agree with me but the wording and statement of things matters and when people are being told things just to push an agenda or things are mislabeled or explained it's an issue!  I'm not saying I'm perfect or right and hence why I say often in my opinion. And I will keep saying in my opinion this is not a vaccine.  Vaccines lead to antibodies that lead to immunity.  This isn't a preventative.  This is like taking theraflu in needle form.  It lessens the symptoms to help ya fight it off.  It's a medication to me more then anything.  Again my opinion/belief!

 


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Paul,

I don't get "defensive" I try to protect you from your own very dangerous habits.  Here is an excellent article about "doing your own research" in fields you are not remotely qualified in.

https://thinkingispower.com/the-problem-with-doing-your-own-research/


Here is another fact you seem to be unaware of.   As recently as last month, we (public health) have been finding that those who are not vaccinated are four times more likely to contract Covid than those who are vaccinated.

Now it's possible the new Omicron variants may change those figures, but I have witnessed repeatedly your research efforts have repeatedly produced wrong and often dangerously wrong results.   

So I am not being "defensive", I am trying to protect you and others from acting on incorrect information and assumptions. 

To each his own opinion-wise, but personally I don't see why this is a big deal. People refer to the flu vaccine as a vaccine, and everyone knows it doesn't stop you from getting the flu.

I don't like misinformation any more than the next guy, but I have never been bothered by the covid vaccine being referred to as a "vaccine", even knowing that it does not stop you from getting covid. Clearly it's not the only vaccine that has that description.

We got the Moderna Vax almost from the get-go. We also got the initial booster when it first became available, just never got the second booster as our doctor said it really wasn't that effective right now. He told us to wait until the fall and there would be several new options.

My wife and I both had Covis, we believe we got coming off our last cruise. Funny, she had symptoms, got tested and was positive and I got tested and was negative. A week later I was now positive and experiencing symptoms of a heavy cold. We both again contacted our doctor about the drug to take and he said as long as we had 'mild' symptoms, the drug would make us feel sicker with diarrhea and other side effects, so we opted not to take it. My wife had a cough that lasted maybe a month afterward but as of now, we are both good to go.

We both ahve had the original Shingles shot but not the booster, which on our list to do very soon.

Quote from: LennG on July 21, 2022, 12:18:49 PMWe got the Moderna Vax almost from the get-go. We also got the initial booster when it first became available, just never got the second booster as our doctor said it really wasn't that effective right now. He told us to wait until the fall and there would be several new options.

My wife and I both had Covis, we believe we got coming off our last cruise. Funny, she had symptoms, got tested and was positive and I got tested and was negative. A week later I was now positive and experiencing symptoms of a heavy cold. We both again contacted our doctor about the drug to take and he said as long as we had 'mild' symptoms, the drug would make us feel sicker with diarrhea and other side effects, so we opted not to take it. My wife had a cough that lasted maybe a month afterward but as of now, we are both good to go.

We both ahve had the original Shingles shot but not the booster, which on our list to do very soon.

I have a 90 year old friend who just got COVID with mild symptoms and his Dr prescribed the meds. He was told it could cause diarrhea. Three pills a day. So what's interesting and somewhat disturbing is how each Dr is different in how they treat.

I agree.
We have been on Lipitor, for high cholesterol for years. We take a 10mg pill every night. A good friend of ours, whole cholesterol level almost equals ours, different doctor takes a 30mg pill. I asked my doctor about this a while ago, and he just said he prefers the least medication as long as it is doing the job, which I agree with fully.
As for the Covid thing, he said without myself and my wife, having any major medical issues and with the Covid symptoms not severe he siad he could have that pill and its side effects but he felt we'd be fine without it, so we opted to forgo it.

Here is the thing, there is no higher medical authority than a doctor.   There is no such thing as super doctors.  That said, the CDC and others will have protocols, standards of care, and recommendations but they are often deferential to the physicians.  Many of them are not binding and ultimately, the only real accountability for doctors is malpractice, or if they are on staff at a hospital, they could be kicked off the staff.   I mean, medical licenses are pulled, but that is a very rare event.

Because of this, you will see doctors with different opinions providing different treatments.