Big Blue Huddle

@Jolly Blue Giant

I think the one risk to a hydrogen future is if a breakthrough like this happens:


https://newatlas.com/energy/aluminum-sulfur-salt-battery-fast-safe-low-cost/

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 26, 2022, 08:07:28 AM@Jolly Blue Giant

I think the one risk to a hydrogen future is if a breakthrough like this happens:


https://newatlas.com/energy/aluminum-sulfur-salt-battery-fast-safe-low-cost/

That could be huge!

But I still think hydrogen has a big future whether running generators for electricity or powering trains, planes, and big trucks/vans, etc

Stocks took a major tumble as the feds were hawkish on interest rates.  Basically saying they will keep raising rates until the get inflation down to 2%

This was suggested to me by Facebook and came from some right-wing political group.

I am not sure why they feel the need to try and make electric vehicles political, but I believe in being open to points made by all sides and persuasions (it may not always seem that way, but some sides tend to go long periods of time without making a valid point    ).



Here is why I posted this, there is some validity in their propaganda picture.   Electric vehicles have an Achille's Heal when it comes to interior heating.  Converting electricity into heat is usually very inefficient and energy intensive.  So the answer is, "no, I wouldn't want to be stuck in a snow storm traffic jam trying to keep warm.  With internal combustion vehicles, the warm comes by bringing in some of the excess heat that is being vented from the car (through the engine radiator).

Of course, this can also be a bit misleading as cars will also run out of gas idling away stuck in the same traffic jam (just that it takes significantly longer)

I will share that I tend to think the short-term to medium-term future is more likely in plugin hybrids, and longer term, I do think hydrogen may end up giving batter electrics a run for their money.   I read an article on the negatives of electric vehicles, and unless there is a real breakthrough, they may be limited to people who have more than one vehicle.

Also, along those lines, I hear that California wants to phase out fossil fuel vehicles by 2035, so I suspect there could be a shelf life on those types of vehicles.  Although I heard an energy expert recently mention that all the solar, wind and other clean energy coming online is only handling mankind's ever-increasing demand for energy and hasn't really made a dent in the BTUs that fossil fuels are contributing (and that isn't likely to change anytime soon).  SO I feel less of an urgency to sell by Cheveron or natural gas stocks

Everyone: I think today was an inflection point in the stock market.

It was possible, though unlikely, the Fed could have (today) signaled more optimism than pessimism, along with a dovish approach toward interest rates in the near future, in which case the rally that began about June 15 (through last week) could have resumed (continued) with almost a guarantee that the June lows would ultimately prove to have been the "bottom" of this bear market.

Instead, we got IMO less optimism than pessimism, along with hawkish signals, as well as a muted but identifiable "warning" generally advising the markets not to expect or rely upon a so-called "soft landing" in terms of the recession. Accordingly, the likelihood of an alternative path for near-term stock markets (along with at least one more sharp interest rate hike) has been greatly enhanced. By "alternative path" I mean that I think it's now more likely there will be AT LEAST a test of the mid-June low-point (i.e., the markets will fall to that general vicinity before eventually heading higher - whenever that may be). 

There is a guy who agrees with this point of view, and you can hear him at this link:
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/market-positioned-perfection-dovish-fed-211206318.html

There are reports that the Fed Chair's speech today "surprised" markets (see this link for one example) 
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/fed-chair-powell-inflation-remarks-192430364.html

... but I personally don't believe it.  The guy in the preceding link was not at all "surprised."

BOTTOM LINE: IMO, please keep close tabs on your money the next five or six weeks. I know we're all excited and eager to see our "new" team play games that actually count for something... but don't forget about your dough!!!!

Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 26, 2022, 03:47:14 PM... I tend to think the short-term to medium-term future is more likely in plugin hybrids, and longer term, I do think hydrogen may end up giving battery electrics a run for their money.   

Rich: IMO that is as true, correct, accurate, realistic and non-partisan as possible. And well-worth noting. Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 26, 2022, 03:49:48 PMEveryone: I think today was an inflection point in the stock market.

It was possible, though unlikely, the Fed could have (today) signaled more optimism than pessimism, along with a dovish approach toward interest rates in the near future, in which case the rally that began about June 15 (through last week) could have resumed (continued) with almost a guarantee that the June lows would ultimately prove to have been the "bottom" of this bear market.

Instead, we got IMO less optimism than pessimism, along with hawkish signals, as well as a muted but identifiable "warning" generally advising the markets not to expect or rely upon a so-called "soft landing" in terms of the recession. Accordingly, the likelihood of an alternative path for near-term stock markets (along with at least one more sharp interest rate hike) has been greatly enhanced. By "alternative path" I mean that I think it's now more likely there will be AT LEAST a test of the mid-June low-point (i.e., the markets will fall to that general vicinity before eventually heading higher - whenever that may be). 

There is a guy who agrees with this point of view, and you can hear him at this link:
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/market-positioned-perfection-dovish-fed-211206318.html

There are reports that the Fed Chair's speech today "surprised" markets (see this link for one example) 
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/fed-chair-powell-inflation-remarks-192430364.html

... but I personally don't believe it.  The guy in the preceding link was not at all "surprised."

BOTTOM LINE: IMO, please keep close tabs on your money the next five or six weeks. I know we're all excited and eager to see our "new" team play games that actually count for something... but don't forget about your dough!!!!

Bob

Bob,

I am not sure why anyone would be "surprised".  I mean, the fed is mandated to keep inflation under control.   I also think today was an overreaction.  Prices have been easing and even dropping, but I doubt the fed is satisfied that they are back to 2%.  Still, I suspect that the September increase, assuming there is one, will be less than the last two.

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 26, 2022, 03:59:13 PMI am not sure why anyone would be "surprised".

Rich: Agree completely. 

Yet you don't even have to spend time listening to the link I posted (the 2nd one). 

Just read the title of the link. LOL 

Bob

PS. Seriously, it's just more media b.s. (which is widespread, especially since the advent of the Internet era).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfnJm7WjOcs

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on August 27, 2022, 12:19:51 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfnJm7WjOcs

That is an excellent video

Reminds me of the visual joke at the beginning of the movie 'Animal House.'

There's a statue with an inscription quoting the founder of Faber College as follows:

"Knowledge is good."

Bob

Of course, all is not sunshine and rainbows for the future of hydrogen.   The Achilles Heal of hydrogen is STORAGE

QuoteHowever, fuel-cell-powered vehicles require enough hydrogen to provide a driving range of more than 300 miles with the ability to quickly and easily refuel the vehicle. While some light-duty hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) that are capable of this range have emerged onto the market, these vehicles will rely on compressed gas onboard storage using large-volume, high-pressure composite vessels. The required large storage volumes may have less impact for larger vehicles, but providing sufficient hydrogen storage across all light-duty platforms remains a challenge. The importance of the 300-mile-range goal can be appreciated by looking at the sales distribution by range chart on this page, which shows that most vehicles sold today are capable of exceeding this minimum.

On a mass basis, hydrogen has nearly three times the energy content of gasoline—120 MJ/kg for hydrogen versus 44 MJ/kg for gasoline. On a volume basis, however, the situation is reversed; liquid hydrogen has a density of 8 MJ/L whereas gasoline has a density of 32 MJ/L, as shown in the figure comparing energy densities of fuels based on lower heating values. Onboard hydrogen storage capacities of 5–13 kg hydrogen will be required to meet the driving range for the full range of light-duty vehicle platforms.

To overcome these challenges HFTO is pursuing two strategic pathways, targeting both near-term and long-term solutions. The near-term pathway focuses on compressed gas storage, using advanced pressure vessels made of fiber reinforced composites that are capable of reaching 700 bar pressure, with a major emphasis on system cost reduction. The long-term pathway focuses on both (1) cold or cryo-compressed hydrogen storage, where increased hydrogen density and insulated pressure vessels may allow for DOE targets to be met and (2) materials-based hydrogen storage technologies, including sorbents, chemical hydrogen storage materials, and metal hydrides, with properties having potential to meet DOE hydrogen storage targets.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage

Rich: Right, which is why the fuel cell idea is also being pursued. Hydrogen can be stored physically (not so good) or chemically (much better IMO) in or on certain solids from which it can be extracted or "disconnected" from the solid as needed.

The futurists who helped produce the original Star Trek of the late 1960's were truly prescient.

The Enterprise did not operate on battery power LOL and if you search the entire Star Trek catalogue from beginning to current, it is highly unlikely you'll find the word "battery" anywhere.

Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 28, 2022, 09:17:16 AMRich: Right, which is why the fuel cell idea is also being pursued. Hydrogen can be stored physically (not so good) or chemically (much better IMO) in or on certain solids from which it can be extracted or "disconnected" from the solid as needed.

The futurists who helped produce the original Star Trek of the late 1960's were truly prescient.

The Enterprise did not operate on battery power LOL and if you search the entire Star Trek catalogue from beginning to current, it is highly unlikely you'll find the word "battery" anywhere.

Bob

Bob. It's very difficult for me to find any dilithium crystals. 🤣🤣🤣

Bill

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 28, 2022, 09:17:16 AMRich: Right, which is why the fuel cell idea is also being pursued. Hydrogen can be stored physically (not so good) or chemically (much better IMO) in or on certain solids from which it can be extracted or "disconnected" from the solid as needed.

The futurists who helped produce the original Star Trek of the late 1960's were truly prescient.

The Enterprise did not operate on battery power LOL and if you search the entire Star Trek catalogue from beginning to current, it is highly unlikely you'll find the word "battery" anywhere.

Bob

The Enterprise ran on the reaction of anti-matter with the matter.  Fuel cells are a means of converting the chemical energy of hydrogen into electricity. 

I think the one thing not touched upon in the link I provided is the safety issue.  We have pretty much figured out how to store 20 gallons of a flammable liquid that produces explosive vapors.  Storing a highly explosive gas like hydrogen safely will prove a challenge as well. 

The article I posted talked about storing hydrogen at 10,000 PSI, which is incredibly high pressure.  So not only do you need a very strong storage vessel, but it will be challenging to transfer gases under such high pressure.