Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 29, 2022, 02:21:23 PMNYC is now by order of the Mayor bringing mentally disturbed individuals to Hospitals for evaluation. Then won't be so easily releasing them as they have in the past. Decades ago mental institutions were no longer subsidized and closed. The Ill were all released to the streets. There is a need to have institutions for those with mental illness throughout the country and means to be able to diagnose them. The criminals also have a form of mental illness and they will always find a way to arm themselves illegally.

NY has to do something   Walking around the city is giving me  Dinkens vibe from back in the day! 


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Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on November 29, 2022, 03:01:23 PMNY has to do something   Walking around the city is giving me  Dinkens vibe from back in the day! 


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I'm willing to bet I'm the most pro 2A member of this forum but I learned a few years ago that talking about it on the internet won't earn you anything but haughty derision.

And I feel bad for Plax but he made a ton of judgement errors. One of the most fundamental things they teach you in CC class is the best way to avoid a confrontation is to avoid situations where they can occur if at all possible.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 29, 2022, 11:34:30 AMI really felt like jailing Plax was an injustice.   Just today, I read in the newspaper about a police sergeant who got drunk (over twice the legal limit), drove, and crashed into a stopped vehicle, nearly killing the driver (who suffered massive injury).   That sergeant didn't serve a day in jail (suspended sentence and probation) and was even allowed to retire from the police force rather than be fired so he could collect a pension.

When I compare that crime with the crime of illegal possession of a gun and shooting yourself, I don't know how that jail time was justified.

As a police officer I can tell you , especially in a state like New Jersey almost no one goes to jail for extended period of times for a DUI ... even if it did cause an injury ... at the end of the day by definition it is still an "accident" and you do get booked for the DUI but that's it

I agree his prison sentence was a bit much ...but that's because it happened in states like Jersey and New York where they hate guns so much that they used buress as an example

If that police officer would have killed that person then yes that is a different beast... I'm not saying what he did was right because it is 100% not right

It's the elected leaders who cause this ...Jersey , ny , Illinois etc they hate guns so much they will do anything to get rid of them

But the guy who actually shot someone gets released because of "bail reform" ....then 9/10 times is committing some form of other crimes in the near future

FYI I am not speaking on behalf of any police department but my own observations and facts

Quote from: CVA14 on November 29, 2022, 12:49:57 PMJailing Plax was not the injustice. The injustice was giving the police sergeant a pass.

People causing DUIs and accidents is not just a police sergeant injustice ... it's and every person injustice .... I know from first hand experience if you are drunk and injure someone you will get charged for a DUI and be released as soon as you are sober ... and given a court date


People who want Justice should go to a place like Texas ..... but then the same people hate guns so much they will blindly risk beliefs 8n Justice because of it

Not saying you, just in general

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on November 29, 2022, 02:10:20 PMWhen people focus more on the mental illness aspect and stop focusing on the gun as the problem we may be able to have the right conversations on this topic.


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Why not do both rather than nothing?

I felt the sentence was harsh. If memory serves Bloomberg was trying to make an example of him. He could have still sent a message without the sentence being as long as it was. He didn't hurt anyone (apart from himself) and he didn't intend to. It would be like putting someone in jail for 2 years for crashing their car into a tree after 4-5 drinks and breaking their own ankle but not hitting another car or person. Actual end-results do matter, and so does intent.

Bloomberg made an example out of him, but what do you need a gun for, just to go to a club ?? Because you wanna wear $100,000 in gold ?? Then go to respectable joints where you don't need a gun, don't have to worry about being robbed and if a problem arrives, fight with your fists like a man

Quote from: DJN on November 29, 2022, 05:40:50 PMBloomberg made an example out of him, but what do you need a gun for, just to go to a club ?? Because you wanna wear $100,000 in gold ?? Then go to respectable joints where you don't need a gun, don't have to worry about being robbed and if a problem arrives, fight with your fists like a man

He had the gun because his teammate had recently been robbed. I agree about going to clubs. Any place that serves alcohol is best avoided TBH. Your comment about fist fighting is silly.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on November 29, 2022, 02:10:20 PMWhen people focus more on the mental illness aspect and stop focusing on the gun as the problem we may be able to have the right conversations on this topic.

Slugsy, identifying and treating mental illness, or one struggling to maintain mental health and wellness (e.g. stress management) is indeed part of the problem. It's not something that is easy to discuss, nor is it easy to live with someone who suffers from a form of it (e.g. depression, anxiety disorders, ADHD, autism spectrum disorders). Whether we're talking about guns, or any other subject, it impacts that person and those around them. The trouble you run into is that there are very few "real" treatment specialists/centers where one afflicted can go and receive "real" care. It's not as simple as going on Dr. Phil and getting to go to a dual-diagnosis facility followed by some rehabilitation place. I can share horror stories of what reality looks like for afflicted persons but I won't go into detail here. Also, if someone with a diagnosed mental illness ends up getting in trouble with the law, regarding a firearm, that individual will be placed on the FBI list as far as being prohibited from ever owning a firearm again.

It is a very complicated issue and our society is currently not equipped to deal with it with even the slightest degree of effectiveness.

Peace!

Quote from: DJN on November 29, 2022, 05:40:50 PMBloomberg made an example out of him, but what do you need a gun for, just to go to a club ?? Because you wanna wear $100,000 in gold ?? Then go to respectable joints where you don't need a gun, don't have to worry about being robbed and if a problem arrives, fight with your fists like a man

And this is where the major grey area comes into to play

You just stated burress went to a place where he had to worry about getting robbed

Not everyone is burress with money , and some of these people have to worry about getting robbed all the fight

It is 100% factual that making gun laws stricter will not stop gun violence ... people who tend to shoot other people are most likely already a criminal or got a gun illegally , stolen , ...a ghost gun etc

If you live in that kind of area and are a good citizen , only defense you have with you if someone is holding you at gun point is your hands or feet to make a run for it


There is a reason places like Chicago ( possibly worse city in country) is so much more dangerous than a city in Texas

The focus is not in the right places

Quote from: DJN on November 29, 2022, 05:40:50 PMBloomberg made an example out of him, but what do you need a gun for, just to go to a club ?? Because you wanna wear $100,000 in gold ?? Then go to respectable joints where you don't need a gun, don't have to worry about being robbed and if a problem arrives, fight with your fists like a man

I agree with what you are saying and think he's a bit of a bonehead (or was, at least), but that does not change my view that his punishment was too harsh.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on November 29, 2022, 02:05:05 PMThis is not correct. Bruen states that New York's requirement to state a proper cause for a concealed carry license is unconstitutional. Plaxico didn't have a New York (or New Jersey) license at all, and his Florida one had expired at the time of the incident. He was effectively concealing an unlicensed firearm and discharged it in a public setting. There's absolutely no basis to have his record "expunged."

That's partially correct, but before they ruled on that point they found you have a right to carry a firearm out of the home for protection. In the Heller case the court found you have a right to have one in your home. That's why other non CCW states like Cali, ill, NJ and Hawaii are now being forced to issue permits.

And it's farcical to say that he didn't have a carry permit because the state refused to issue them except to exceedingly wealthy people and politicians. They used their arbitrarily enforced proper cause clause to decide who did and didn't get a permit. His choice was to break what is now an unconstitutional law or not carry at all.

The law enforcement environment in NYC is much different now than it was in 2008.  I can't help thinking the disposition of the case would be far different today. 

Quote from: Rambo89 on November 29, 2022, 05:32:33 PMWhy not do both rather than nothing?

Because there are no new laws or old laws that will limit or stop gun violence.  The bad guys will always find a way to get a gun or a device to cause harm!

All new laws do is make legal gun owners criminals.

If someone wants to do harm they will.

The root of the problem isn't the gun, it's the individual.


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NY and NJ would only issue a carry permit if the person proved to a judge that they needed it for personal protection due to their job or Special situation. For example you own a jewelry store or you're a security guard. The Heller decision said that no State had the right to deny the right to carry and decide who can or can't be granted a permit. As a result all states must now allow. The states however can set up rules and standards. In NJ it's a carry permit not concealed carry only. You have to have a FID Firearm ID Card. If you don't have one you need to now qualify for one and get fingerprinted and a background check and references and renew it every two years. Then you can apply for your Carry Permit. You have to take a class on lethal force, pass a shooting competency test, get printed again, mental health check, Background check and a judge has to approve it which has slowed down the process instead of the local police chief approving it. They also have to be renewed every two years and requalify. In NJ no magazines over ten rounds, 50 Caliber banned, no assault rifles etc... Also you have to have the card on you if you carry and it has to be the firearm you qualified with.