Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 01, 2022, 08:10:12 AMI have a question for the pro-gun people on this thread.   If we play the game- if you were king

How would you stop all the mass shootings and reduce the number of single shootings?  What laws and rules would you change to make a country safer and save innocent lives?

I think slugs mentioned mental health ....

As a cop I can tell you 98% of shootings are done with illegal/stolen/ghost guns

You can make. Gun with a 3d printer these days, if we are able to ban all guns are we going to ban 3d printers ?

You only need the gun to work once to cause damage , so it doesn't need to be an expensive sig suar

If someone wants to cause mass chaos they will find a way, if they can't use guns they can easily find a way to make a crappy explosive

Mass shootings are usually with the intent to cause massive death in one shot... you away guns they will find a different way

When it comes to shooting in general those are mostly done with illegal guns anyways .... Someone holding up a sign stating "ban all guns" isn't going to stop the crazy person with mental illness from walking in my sons and daughters school and shooting it up

Only a good person with a gun will stop them or have a Fighting chance to stop them

At the end of the day you will NEVER get rid of guns, stopping good people from getting guns is only going to put your and my kids more at danger .... Kids can only hide in a closet for so long ....

I'm all for better background checks and making it more difficult to get apProved...but an outright ban is ignorant

Once again I have been dealing with this for 7 years now... never have I dealt with a shooting that was done with a legally owned gun

Can it happen that a legally owned gun owner will do something ? Yes of course and it has happened ... but that is where mental health comes into play and the powers that be make sure the right people get a gun


In the end this is something none of us will ever agree on ,  but I'm speaking from a first hand experience pov ..that's all I got to say on that front

Quote from: killarich on December 01, 2022, 10:43:39 AMI think slugs mentioned mental health ....

As a cop I can tell you 98% of shootings are done with illegal/stolen/ghost guns

You can make. Gun with a 3d printer these days, if we are able to ban all guns are we going to ban 3d printers ?

You only need the gun to work once to cause damage , so it doesn't need to be an expensive sig suar

If someone wants to cause mass chaos they will find a way, if they can't use guns they can easily find a way to make a crappy explosive

Mass shootings are usually with the intent to cause massive death in one shot... you away guns they will find a different way

When it comes to shooting in general those are mostly done with illegal guns anyways .... Someone holding up a sign stating "ban all guns" isn't going to stop the crazy person with mental illness from walking in my sons and daughters school and shooting it up

Only a good person with a gun will stop them or have a Fighting chance to stop them

At the end of the day you will NEVER get rid of guns, stopping good people from getting guns is only going to put your and my kids more at danger .... Kids can only hide in a closet for so long ....

I'm all for better background checks and making it more difficult to get apProved...but an outright ban is ignorant

Once again I have been dealing with this for 7 years now... never have I dealt with a shooting that was done with a legally owned gun

Can it happen that a legally owned gun owner will do something ? Yes of course and it has happened ... but that is where mental health comes into play and the powers that be make sure the right people get a gun


In the end this is something none of us will ever agree on ,  but I'm speaking from a first hand experience pov ..that's all I got to say on that front

Kill
Thanks for you input from someone on the front lines having to address this problem daily!  Your insight is great to read.

You brought up a good point about explosives - you can Google it and find that many of the ingredients are easy to get.

3D printers is another new issue that I completely didn't think about.

It just further proves, evil will find a way!  We just need to make it more challenging for them without violating the rights of others.

The majority should never have to give up their rights and beliefs for an very small minority of the population.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 01, 2022, 10:56:03 AMThe majority should never have to give up their rights and beliefs for an very small minority of the population.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 01, 2022, 10:58:26 AM

And your point?

This tells us nothing.

What is considered more strict?  In some states you buy a firearm by showing a DL.  So yes in that case I agree! 

In other states i need a firearm id, have a background check and if looking to buy a pistol apply for a permit which takes 30 days at least to obtain.  So in that case no.

You can throw out generic info but without knowing what is being asked and who is doing the asking your statistics are just numbers to try and just your position cause it's what you believe so there is bias in it

I am still waiting for you to address my questions since I was courteous enough to address yours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

@Slugsy-Narrows

I am not sure what question you asked that I didn't address.  I know you just asked what my point was.  You raised the issue of the rights of the minority shouldn't trump the rights of the majority.  So I showed you that the majority of the nation wants stricter gun laws.

Also, I keep hearing the claim that it's illegal guns.  Well, here is a stat of the legality of the weapons used in mass shootings, I think it's safe to say it's not the illegal weapons that are the issue



I will also play the if I were king game.  If I were king, owning a gun would be on par with owning and using an automobile.  You would need to get licensed, you would need insurance (who would regulate owners to keep their guns secure and used properly), and you could lose your license if you don't use your firearms in a safe, legal manner.

Being King won't get it done with the powers states have in the constitution. But, I would have sensible gun laws universal throughout the nation. Right now, you can go to a gun show in many states and buy guns from a vendor without a background check. There are cameras set up and they will follow you to your car and if you buy a gun and ship it to another location outside of NJ to a similar state, they will still pick up your plate and the ATF will come knocking on your door and you will get arrested and your property searched and your guns confiscated.

All States requiring a background check and mental health check back to juvenile, fingerprinted and Firearm ID Card and registration of all handguns and rifles with a magazine load. Age restriction to 21 years of age like NJ. All states with reciprocal carry permits. A mandatory firearms class and field test for all handgun and carry permits. No ban on caliper or what are bogus called "assault rifles". I would consider restrictions on ammo quantity purchases.

Mandatory jail sentences for carrying an illegal firearm or not being licensed in every state.

I would take Marijuana and psychedelics off Federal Class one classification and release all those incarcerated for that. I would abolish cashless bail and remove bail completely on certain crimes such as violent crimes and grand larceny.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 01, 2022, 11:21:53 AM@Slugsy-Narrows

I am not sure what question you asked that I didn't address.  I know you just asked what my point was.  You raised the issue of the rights of the minority shouldn't trump the rights of the majority.  So I showed you that the majority of the nation wants stricter gun laws.

Also, I keep hearing the claim that it's illegal guns.  Well, here is a stat of the legality of the weapons used in mass shootings, I think it's safe to say it's not the illegal weapons that are the issue

<a href="https://www.statista.com/statistics/476461/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-legality-of-shooters-weapons/" rel="nofollow"></a>
Find more statistics at&nbsp; <a href="https://www.statista.com" rel="nofollow">Statista</a>


I will also play the if I were king game.  If I were king, owning a gun would be on par with owning and using an automobile.  You would need to get licensed, you would need insurance (who would regulate owners to keep their guns secure and used properly), and you could lose your license if you don't use your firearms in a safe, legal manner.

I was stating shootings in general , not mass shootings

Either way mental health is the main issue with a mass shooting, if someone wants to shootup a school full of kids that is def a mental health issue .... No one is shooting up a school to over turf wars , drugs, or street cred... it's because someone has a mental issue

And I agree we should have licensing and stuff.... But the gun isn't the issue there legally or illegally owned

Quote from: killarich on December 01, 2022, 11:39:19 AMI was stating shootings in general , not mass shootings

Either way mental health is the main issue with a mass shooting, if someone wants to shootup a school full of kids that is def a mental health issue .... No one is shooting up a school to over turf wars , drugs, or street cred... it's because someone has a mental issue

And I agree we should have licensing and stuff.... But the gun isn't the issue there legally or illegally owned

I agree that gun violence in general and mass shootings are two different topics (obviously related).   I think both are issues that need and should be addressed.

On the issue of mental health, how do you resolve the issue that is created when you start using mental health as a red flag for gun ownership?  In other words, will people avoid getting the mental healthcare services they need if they are fearful of losing their guns or not being able to buy them in the future?   So how would you address that particular issue?





This is for @Slugsy-Narrows who talked about alternative means of killing





Independent of what I just discussed, how many are aware of the server shortage of mental healthcare providers?   

QuoteYou raised the issue of the rights of the minority shouldn't trump the rights of the majority.  So I showed you that the majority of the nation wants stricter gun laws.

This is just bad logic. 

The first sentence is applied to the second sentence.

The first sentence is about rights.

The second sentence is about what some supposed majority of people want or desire or would like to see (Don't get me started on polls).  Not rights.

Just because the majority of the country wants something doesn't make it a right. 

Also, it seems that some significant number of people don't understand what a right is.  For example, there are many who believe there is a right to health care.  If someone else has to give it to you, then you're not entitled to it.   Its not a right.

https://youtu.be/wwL0x75k6Jk

I just got back from the range and there was a large group of about 50 Hasidim boys that were brought in by either their Rabbi or School Teacher for a class and to learn how to shoot. I imagine some of them may one day get a carry license for personal protection with the climate being what it is and the rise in antisemitism in the world today.

Whatever anyone believes or would like, it's all moot. The highest court in the land has decided. 

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 01, 2022, 02:34:53 PMI just got back from the range and there was a large group of about 50 Hasidim boys that were brought in by either their Rabbi or School Teacher for a class and to learn how to shoot. I imagine some of them may one day get a carry license for personal protection with the climate being what it is and the rise in antisemitism in the world today.

Whatever anyone believes or would like, it's all moot. The highest court in the land has decided.

That Rabbi should be commended

Teaching our youth about guns gives them an education, if more people were properly educated and taught they would probably have a different view.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: jimmyz on December 01, 2022, 12:01:42 PMThis is just bad logic. 

The first sentence is applied to the second sentence.

The first sentence is about rights.

The second sentence is about what some supposed majority of people want or desire or would like to see (Don't get me started on polls).  Not rights.

Just because the majority of the country wants something doesn't make it a right. 

Also, it seems that some significant number of people don't understand what a right is.  For example, there are many who believe there is a right to health care.  If someone else has to give it to you, then you're not entitled to it.   Its not a right.

Well said Jimmyz.

It's also interesting that even one life we save matters, yet that same logic isn't applied to everything.  Only what fits their beliefs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hypothetical question

If you could ban all guns for good BUT every murderer, serial killer , or any person who used a gun would be released from prison as long as they served 5 years or anyone from this point who is charged for such will only serve 5 years max....

Do you make that decision as King ?

Quote from: killarich on December 01, 2022, 07:23:44 PMHypothetical question

If you could ban all guns for good BUT every murderer, serial killer , or any person who used a gun would be released from prison as long as they served 5 years or anyone from this point who is charged for such will only serve 5 years max....

Do you make that decision as King ?

No!

Again evil will find a way to do evil.

No more guns, then what is the next best means to kill with and they will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk