Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 26, 2022, 09:29:06 PMDifference between the two in their careers will be that Cousins put up good numbers with little to work with in Washington.  When Cousins got weapons in Minnesota his production increased but not drastically. 

As far as the Giants offense opening up I wouldn't expect last week's offense to be used this week or again this season unless they play Minnesota in the playoffs. 

They ran it vs the Commanders the previous week as well.  Let's see of the trend continues or they pivot back to the run/play action.

One side is keep running it and get more reps to continue to develop the chemistry with DJ and the WRs.  Since going forward and even into the plays offs all teams possibly going in are in the top 10 in pass defense.

The counter argument is that going back to the run/play action puts less tape out there for teams to dissect and gameplan against.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 26, 2022, 09:29:06 PMDifference between the two in their careers will be that Cousins put up good numbers with little to work with in Washington.  When Cousins got weapons in Minnesota his production increased but not drastically. 

As far as the Giants offense opening up I wouldn't expect last week's offense to be used this week or again this season unless they play Minnesota in the playoffs. 

I wouldn't call Morris (Pro Bowl RB), DJax (Pro Bowl WR), Garcon, Crowder and Reed (Pro Bowl TE) as "little to work with" relative to the situation DJ was placed in.  On top of that McVay orchestrating the offense.  We've seen what he did with Goff.  I would argue that the circumstance Cousins was placed in as a favorable one rather than handicapping what he is capable of.

https://youtu.be/tTfu3EQuDo8

Quote from: GMenRF on December 26, 2022, 09:56:41 PMThey ran it vs the Commanders the previous week as well.  Let's see of the trend continues or they pivot back to the run/play action.

One side is keep running it and get more reps to continue to develop the chemistry with DJ and the WRs.  Since going forward and even into the plays offs all teams possibly going in are in the top 10 in pass defense.

The counter argument is that going back to the run/play action puts less tape out there for teams to dissect and gameplan against.

It is dependent upon the opponent.  Against a team like the Vikings who are not good against the pass the Giants are going to attack them there.  But against most teams and where the Giants have been successful this season is when they have focused on their ground game and controlling the clock.

Quote from: GMenRF on December 26, 2022, 10:01:57 PMI wouldn't call Morris (Pro Bowl RB), DJax (Pro Bowl WR), Garcon, Crowder and Reed (Pro Bowl TE) as "little to work with" relative to the situation DJ was placed in.  On top of that McVay orchestrating the offense.  We've seen what he did with Goff.  I would argue that the circumstance Cousins was placed in as a favorable one rather than handicapping what he is capable of.

Morris was not on the same level that Barkley is where Barkley is going to end up being a 2nd or 1st Team All Pro.  Jackson only played 9 games for Washington in Cousin's first season so he was not as much of a factor.

And again Jones has Daboll and Kafka as his Head Coach and OC.  That's hardly trash.  The biggest thing handicapping Jones is himself and his lack of instincts.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 26, 2022, 08:21:10 PMI've been keeping up with the next Gen stats all season and he's been right at 2.9 or right over 3.0 all season which for the most part was 30th or worse in the NFL. Recently he's done better and because of such he sits around 2.92 which probably 20th maybe 23rd. What it hasn't been is 5 seconds ever this season to my knowledge if that helps in your discussion.

Yeah, I know, but that didn't stop some folks from throwing around the 5 seconds number.  And please clarify, if you will, is that 2.9 figure time to throw or time in the pocket?

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 26, 2022, 12:16:44 PMIt's year 4.  He's had multiple Head Coaches, Coordinators and players around him.  At some point it needs to be about him.

You say that like it is a positive, whereas this kind or organizational instability is what can stunt a QBs development.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 26, 2022, 08:34:26 PMThere's always excuses for Jones.  At what point do they go away?  When things are perfect around him?

There are always excuses for the OL.  At what point do they go away?

And there, yet again is the hyperbolic 'when things are perfect' canard.  No one has said things have to be perfect for him to produce better numbers, we'd just like to see a reasonably competent NFL quality OL and WR corps.  No one has said he needs the Eagles OL and the Bengals receiver group.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 09:24:39 AMThere are always excuses for the OL.  At what point do they go away?

No one is making excuses for the OL, I don't think anyone has claimed it is anything above average besides Thomas.

It is his best overall OL, but that also is not saying much of anything. But plenty of QBs have played well with equal or worse.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 27, 2022, 09:31:57 AMNo one is making excuses for the OL, I don't think anyone has claimed it is anything above average besides Thomas.

It is his best overall OL, but that also is not saying much of anything. But plenty of QBs have played well with equal or worse.

Sure excuses are being made for the OL.  I talk about the forty percent increase in sacks and out come the hand-waving excuses that the pass pro has actually improved.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 27, 2022, 09:31:57 AMNo one is making excuses for the OL, I don't think anyone has claimed it is anything above average besides Thomas.

It is his best overall OL, but that also is not saying much of anything. But plenty of QBs have played well with equal or worse.

Really? Really? Those QBs you speak of...do they also have WRs that are at the level we have? I was listening to the announcers on the Dolphin game and they were saying how Hill and Waddle were making Tua better. There was a time in the game Waddle had two catches for 96 yards and Hill three catches for 84 yards. The majority of the yards for both WR were YAC yards. As of now Waddle leads the NFL with an average of 18 yards after the catch

Quote from: brownelvis54 on December 27, 2022, 09:56:03 AMReally? Really? Those QBs you speak of...do they also have WRs that are at the level we have? I was listening to the announcers on the Dolphin game and they were saying how Hill and Waddle were making Tua better. There was a time in the game Waddle had two catches for 96 yards and Hill three catches for 84 yards. The majority of the yards for both WR were YAC yards. As of now Waddle leads the NFL with an average of 18 yards after the catch

This response seems to be all over the place, how did we go from OL play to Tuas WRs getting YAC yards

I don't think Tua is that much better than Jones myself, a marginal upgrade, but anyways, we have two WRs in the top 30ish range on PFF, which is good for top half of the league. They have capable receivers, a solid TE and a pro bowl RB, and elite LT, that is some pretty solid talent to work with. As for the other QBs, some of them might have had better WRs, but they got knocked on their rears often, moreso than Jones has, always facing constant pressure, but they made it work. Most did not have a RB of Barkleys caliber which also helps even it out.

At some point, the QB has to be the reason. He played very well this week, I'm still not convinced long term, but I credit him for a solid performance. He still has not showed many franchise qualities or done anything indicating he should be built aroudn as such

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 27, 2022, 09:31:57 AMNo one is making excuses for the OL, I don't think anyone has claimed it is anything above average besides Thomas.

It is his best overall OL, but that also is not saying much of anything. But plenty of QBs have played well with equal or worse.

I think it's worth noting which QBs enjoyed superior receivers.   QBs can usually get by with either good receivers or good protection, but it's extremely rare to get by without both.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 27, 2022, 10:34:54 AMI think it's worth noting which QBs enjoyed superior receivers.   QBs can usually get by with either good receivers or good protection, but it's extremely rare to get by without both.

No matter how many times that point is made it gets steadfastly ignored in some quarters.  Just like the 'time to throw' and 'time in pocket' dichotomy.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 09:18:07 AMYou say that like it is a positive, whereas this kind or organizational instability is what can stunt a QBs development.

It's a big time negative that all of those things have gotten the blame and been changed/upgraded yet the conversation continues to have the same direction and that is to deflect away from Daniel Jones.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 09:24:39 AMThere are always excuses for the OL.  At what point do they go away?

And there, yet again is the hyperbolic 'when things are perfect' canard.  No one has said things have to be perfect for him to produce better numbers, we'd just like to see a reasonably competent NFL quality OL and WR corps.  No one has said he needs the Eagles OL and the Bengals receiver group.

Offensive line has been good enough for this team to have a good passing offense.  No excuses needed.  It's a reasonably competent NFL offensive line.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 11:53:34 AMNo matter how many times that point is made it gets steadfastly ignored in some quarters.  Just like the 'time to throw' and 'time in pocket' dichotomy.

Just like Jones always gets a pass in some quarters.