Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 28, 2022, 01:02:59 PMTo be retained at 30 million, because that's what it'll take to resign him. So you're paying Jones 30 million a year content with the production he has now?

You would have to project his production with better WRs.  Given what we know about the impact of tier 1 WRs on veteran QBs in their prime, I don't believe the projected production increase equates to $30M/yr.  However, I also recognize we're unlikely to find a #15 or better QB this year. So. franchise him, draft a wr #1 or 2 and reevaluate next season. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:03:33 PMI think the issue is too much focus on current WRs and not the entire receiving group through the season

Players- receiving snaps - PFF receiving grade

Shepard- 108 60.1
James- 340 68.2
Johnson- 158 50.7
Sills- 138 59.8
Slayton- 398 71.7
Robinson- 140 70.9
Golladay- 117 50.3
Hodgins- 248 75.4

Myarick- 177 61.6
Bellinger- 267 58.6
Vannett- 53 52.1
Cager- 73 50.5
Hudson- 140 59.8

Brightwell- 31 71.4
Breida- 41 56.6
Barkley- 248 58.4

70s are good; DJ currently has a 74. So, he had 3 good WRs, yet terrible WAR. Something doesn't compute.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 28, 2022, 02:08:24 PM70s are good; DJ currently has a 74. So, he had 3 good WRs, yet terrible WAR. Something doesn't compute.

Why are you ignoring all the receivers with grades in the 50s and 60s?  Also, why ignore the TE and RB receiving grades?

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:11:40 PMWhy are you ignoring all the receivers with grades in the 50s and 60s?  Also, why ignore the TE and RB receiving grades?

Most of the guys in the 50s aren't starting... And we all see the balls Jones throws to Barkley, no wonder his PFF is 58.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 28, 2022, 02:20:41 PMMost of the guys in the 50s aren't starting... And we all see the balls Jones throws to Barkley, no wonder his PFF is 58.

Yet, when you list stats they are not for just the starters

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 28, 2022, 01:02:59 PMTo be retained at 30 million, because that's what it'll take to resign him. So you're paying Jones 30 million a year content with the production he has now?

One, the production will continue to increase and two, as I ask above, what are the alternatives?  I sure as hell don't want to start over with a rookie project out of the draft.  So for those who want to move on from DJ, who do you see or want as the Giant QB next year? 

Quote from: Gman329 on December 28, 2022, 02:27:15 PMOne, the production will continue to increase and two, as I ask above, what are the alternatives?  I sure as hell don't want to start over with a rookie project out of the draft.  So for those who want to move on from DJ, who do you see or want as the Giant QB next year?

Why would you not want to draft a QB? Should the Giants forever roll with DJ and when his career is over, only acquire QBs via trades and free agency?

Quote from: Gman329 on December 28, 2022, 02:27:15 PMOne, the production will continue to increase and two, as I ask above, what are the alternatives?  I sure as hell don't want to start over with a rookie project out of the draft.  So for those who want to move on from DJ, who do you see or want as the Giant QB next year?

What do you think that organizations do when a new regime comes in? The Raiders just benched Derek Carr who has been night and day a better Qb than Jones his whole career. Carr, Tannehill, Jimmy G, Wentz they all fail... signing an average starter for big money always fails. I'm perfectly fine with going backwards next year if it means going forward the next 15 years. There are a ton of Qbs that can match Jones' production for one year at a fraction of the cost.

Quote from: Gman329 on December 28, 2022, 01:01:30 PMI see valid points and concerns on both sides of the Jones argument.  I lean toward the positive, as I think he's shown steady improvement and with another year in this offense, with some actual NFL caliber receivers, he'll take another step foward. 

That said, the hesitancy to pull the trigger on midlevel throws - slower processing? - is worrisome and something I'm hoping we see develop in that next step forward.

But here's the point I keep coming back to: who could we get that would be a better QB for the NY Giants in 2023?  Anyone coming out of the draft would be a project.  You want Carr?  Jimmy G?  You wanna give TOP dollar for Jackson?  None of those options appeal to me.  I'll take DJ and I trust our GM to make the right deal. 

Sure adding more talent at WR will help Jones be more productive.  But as was the case with an improved offensive line and play-calling improving the receiving talent won't increase the production significantly like some expect it too.  It will be another marginal improvement.  For me that marginal improvement is only worth so much in terms of annual cap space.

If (key word) the Giants new regime has identified a QB they love in the draft the idea would be that QB has a much higher ceiling than Jones.  Sure there will more than likely be growing pains but sometimes you have to take a step back to take a bigger step forward.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:21:56 PMYet, when you list stats they are not for just the starters

You're getting upset because our 4th TE and 7th Wr has a 50 pff. Just not sure why you're making such a big deal of players that aren't actively involved in the game..

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 28, 2022, 02:35:16 PMYou're getting upset because our 4th TE and 7th Wr has a 50 pff. Just not sure why you're making such a big deal of players that aren't actively involved in the game..

What are you talking about?   Players with a 70 or better grade make less than 31% of the snaps.  That's a fact.  Also, why use words like "upset" and "making such a big deal"?   I thought we are talking numbers and analytics

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:11:40 PMWhy are you ignoring all the receivers with grades in the 50s and 60s?  Also, why ignore the TE and RB receiving grades?

I'm not, but these WRs are no longer starting. I'm focused on the current starters.  There are few teams that have 5x 70+ players at all 5 eligible receiver positions.  What this tells me is he's stating skill position players are better than average, and those who were injured or not starting are well below average. Why would you factor guys like Sills, KG, and Johnson when they haven't been on the active roster for weeks? 

Quote from: kingm56 on December 28, 2022, 03:00:57 PMI'm not, but these WRs are no longer starting. I'm focused on the current starters.  There are few teams that have 5x 70+ players at all 5 eligible receiver positions.  What this tells me is he's stating skill position players are better than average, and those who were injured or not starting are well below average. Why would you factor guys like Sills, KG, and Johnson when they haven't been on the active roster for weeks? 

You should factor them in because you are citing stats generated with their play.  The 70+ guys account for less than 31% of the receiving snaps.   It explain why PFF grades appear better than the WAR

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:45:54 PMWhat are you talking about?  Players with a 70 or better grade make less than 31% of the snaps.  That's a fact.  Also, why use words like "upset" and "making such a big deal"?  I thought we are talking numbers and analytics

well since you asked, I used the words because you have a tendency to get emotional about things and then rant on them for 4-5 pages ensuring you get the last word. So instead of having to read the next 4 pages of you getting upset because people weren't taking your 4th and 5th wr pff scores seriously enough I just asked why you were upset.. don't you worry though rich, I won't ever ask about your emotional well being ever again... because your neutral and it's just stats and analytics right?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 28, 2022, 03:07:33 PMwell since you asked, I used the words because you have a tendency to get emotional about things and then rant on them for 4-5 pages ensuring you get the last word. So instead of having to read the next 4 pages of you getting upset because people weren't taking your 4th and 5th wr pff scores seriously enough I just asked why you were upset.. don't you worry though rich, I won't ever ask about your emotional well being ever again... because your neutral and it's just stats and analytics right?

So, in other words, failing a reasoned answer, you prefer a rule violating personal attack.  I guess that's one way to try and distract from the fatal flaws in your claims.  In the end, though, you have failed to explain why you claim Jones has great receiving targets when less than 31% of the receiving snaps were taken by guys with a PFF grade over 70 (which is really just good rather than great).

Jess, your false narratives and petty sniping only serve to diminish the quality of the posts on our forum.   Try to do better

PS- it's ironic you claim not to hate Jones, but you sure seem to hate people who don't share your very negative views of Jones