Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Rambo89 on January 12, 2023, 09:46:10 AMJust look at Dallas who had to trade Cooper because of the Elliott cap hit.

Again it's going to come down to Barkley or big money WR.  Which do you choose?

You didnt do the math thats an assumption not based on the numbers at all. Do some due diligence before making a statement. Spend the time do the cap math and report back.

Quote from: Blue Fire on January 12, 2023, 10:02:12 AMYou didnt do the math thats an assumption not based on the numbers at all. Do some due diligence before making a statement. Spend the time do the cap math and report back.

What due diligence have you done? Explain how you have come to your conclusion, other than looking at cap figures before the next two offseasons occur, and before decisions are made on Jones and Barkley?

Quote from: Blue Fire on January 12, 2023, 09:39:27 AMIs it an illusion to believe that we can add a big contract or 2 in addition to DJ/and Barkley and sign our core guys when their contracts come up?

Ive done the math and its workable very much within the parameters of what many of the competing teams do.

No one is saying go buck wild and sign every big FA on the market here but a potential trade for a bigger money WR (since FA is pretty barren in quality #1 options) and maybe a big fish signing at CB or maybe some other D position is well within our ample cap space parameters without causing some crazy mortaging of the future.

BF, you are certainly free to believe what you want to believe.  I am mindful, like any young team that is on the rise, the cap is going to be consumed in a good way (retaining homegrown talent).  It's likely to start with DJ and Barkley, but soon, the big contract will be going to Thomas, Dexter, and McKenzie.  You should also look at Ed's Giants free agent list.  There are more than a few starters that are free agents who will need to be re-signed or repleaced

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 12, 2023, 10:13:52 AMBF, you are certainly free to believe what you want to believe.  I am mindful, like any young team that is on the rise, the cap is going to be consumed in a good way (retaining homegrown talent).  It's likely to start with DJ and Barkley, but soon, the big contract will be going to Thomas, Dexter, and McKenzie.  You should also look at Ed's Giants free agent list.  There are more than a few starters that are free agents who will need to be re-signed or repleaced

Yup Rich I am mindful too which is why I believe it may be 'just' one big contract or two at key need areas in addition to DJ/Saquan. It would put us in very similar situations as the many of the other playoff teams in terms of cap management/allocation.

Guess we'll see and we can leave it at that...

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on January 12, 2023, 09:06:51 AMHe is not a #1, he would be a solid addition to our room, but I would not pay him close to WR1 money.

And the article even acknowledges this!      

Orlovsky ranks the play-off QBs.  I think his rank of DJ will surprise some folks and, I expect will be controversial.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35413498/ranking-nfl-playoff-quarterbacks-2023-dan-orlovsky-stacks-strengths-weaknesses-all-14

As a tease, this is what he said about Jones:

QuoteJones attacks the middle of the field really well, showing some high-end ball placement. His 75.9% completion rate on throws between the hashes ranks second in the NFL. And he has become a rushing asset for the Giants' offense, picking up just shy of 600 yards with his feet in 2022.

I do wonder if his "good" is good enough, though. Can Jones carry the Giants to a string of playoff wins? The supporting cast doesn't have the same talent as other NFC contenders, so Jones will have to take over at times.

You'll have to click through to see where he is ranked and who is above and below him.

Quote from: Blue Fire on January 11, 2023, 08:02:54 PMThanks I edited the syntax to clarify.

The point was that you can structure contracts with higher cap hits in year 2 (2024) vs year 1 (2023) because 2024 is an obscenely high 179M cap space vs the still quite high 60-85M (3rd in NFL of 2023 with the high end of 85M after restructures/cuts/extensions if need be)

Mighty Ive always found you to be a man of reason who looked for the answers without letting bias cloud your judgment most of the time. I would ask you to take some time and take a closer look at the overthecap numbers I pointed out for other NFL teams along with our own cap space next year and beyond .  I think you will quickly realize we can most certainly add a big contract or two in addition to Barkley and Jones without it upsetting the apple cart (should we so desire). In fact it would be very much in line with the NFL landscape of many current playoff teams.

It seems you operate on the premise that people who disagree with you must be clouded by some type of bias. 

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 12, 2023, 01:06:55 PMOrlovsky ranks the play-off QBs.  I think his rank of DJ will surprise some folks and, I expect will be controversial.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35413498/ranking-nfl-playoff-quarterbacks-2023-dan-orlovsky-stacks-strengths-weaknesses-all-14

As a tease, this is what he said about Jones:

You'll have to click through to see where he is ranked and who is above and below him.

I think that's about right. I mean any given Sunday him dak and cousins could be interchangeable in my opinion but for 1 game his legs provide a boost those two guys just simply can't do. I might even put him over Lamar or at least have Lawrence and Lamar swap spots. I'm not sure Brady should be up there either that high.

Quote from: kingm56 on January 12, 2023, 01:08:33 PMIt seems you operate on the premise that people who disagree with you must be clouded by some type of bias.

 

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 12, 2023, 01:06:55 PMOrlovsky ranks the play-off QBs.  I think his rank of DJ will surprise some folks and, I expect will be controversial.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35413498/ranking-nfl-playoff-quarterbacks-2023-dan-orlovsky-stacks-strengths-weaknesses-all-14

As a tease, this is what he said about Jones:

You'll have to click through to see where he is ranked and who is above and below him.

I am surprised by where Orlovsky ranked him.  Every offseason, I hear Orlovsky on various Giants-themed podcasts, and he has never been a fan of DJ since he was drafted.  Orlovsky feels that QBs drafted in round one need to have some sort of trait they are special at that sets them apart from the pack, and he felt that was lacking with DJ.  Since then, his assessments of Jones have been more negative than positive each offseason. 

I am aware that in the second half of the season, Orlovsky gave a few positive reviews of some of DJ's games, but I didn't realize that Orlovsky had drastically changed his views on Jones.

DJ not satisfied by making the playoffs.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35427945/qb-jones-adamant-giants-not-satisfied-making-playoffs

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 12, 2023, 01:13:08 PMI think that's about right. I mean any given Sunday him dak and cousins could be interchangeable in my opinion but for 1 game his legs provide a boost those two guys just simply can't do. I might even put him over Lamar or at least have Lawrence and Lamar swap spots. I'm not sure Brady should be up there either that high.

I think Jones, Hurts, Dak and Geno Smith are interchangeable.  Cousins IMO is better than those four.  Though I don't trust any of them in a big game.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 12, 2023, 01:24:04 PMI am surprised by where Orlovsky ranked him.  Every offseason, I hear Orlovsky on various Giants-themed podcasts, and he has never been a fan of DJ since he was drafted.  Orlovsky feels that QBs drafted in round one need to have some sort of trait they are special at that sets them apart from the pack, and he felt that was lacking with DJ.  Since then, his assessments of Jones have been more negative than positive each offseason. 

I am aware that in the second half of the season, Orlovsky gave a few positive reviews of some of DJ's games, but I didn't realize that Orlovsky had drastically changed his views on Jones.

DJ wasn't the QB that surprised me...it was his #14 selection. 

I wonder how Purdy will do under the big lights, he has played great since stepping in.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-ranking-all-32-teams-primary-starting-quarterbacks-at-the-end-of-th

DJ is ranked 18th, I think that is a pretty fair placement for him as things currently stand. I would maybe move him a spot or two higher, not sure I agree Purdy (yet), or Fields, should be above him. He probably outperformed Kyler this year as well and played a full slate of games. So I can see him being about 15th or so

"2022 stats: 16 games | 67.2 pct | 3,205 pass yds | 6.8 ypa | 15 pass TD | 5 INT | 708 rush yds | 7 rush TD | 6 fumbles"

"Playing all year to prove he belongs next year, Jones entered Week 17 amid reports the Giants view him as "part of their future in 2023 and beyond." Why not? Along with his heroics on the ground, "Danny Dimes" has improved through the air. In recent weeks, the Giants have run a "more conventional passing offense rather than relying so heavily on bootlegs," per The Athletic's Dan Duggan. Against the Vikings in Week 16, Jones lashed Minnesota for 334 yards, nearly 135 more than his average per game in 2022. One week later against the Colts -- in his final regular-season outing -- he completed all but five of his 24 throws and shredded Indy with 91 yards on the ground, totaling four touchdowns in the process. At last paired with a coach who can refine him, Jones exits the regular season as a functional starter to hang onto."