Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2023, 12:30:24 PMIf they can't afford the upgrades under that plan, I would think Barkley would be the first part they would let go.

In comparison to Jones, Barkley's contract would be small potatoes (but huge potatoes for a RB).  I let them both go.  Barkley's production should be largely replaceable by a committee.  So for me, go all out in building up the roster, play 2023 with Taylor/Webb/? at QB, then draft your QB in 2024 and let him be developed by someone who knows how to do it.

Then win the Superbowl in 2025.   

https://twitter.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1617575143110479872

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 23, 2023, 12:48:38 PMIn comparison to Jones, Barkley's contract would be small potatoes (but huge potatoes for a RB).  I let them both go.  Barkley's production should be largely replaceable by a committee.  So for me, go all out in building up the roster, play 2023 with Taylor/Webb/? at QB, then draft your QB in 2024 and let him be developed by someone who knows how to do it.

Then win the Superbowl in 2025.   

The only "problem" with this approach is that as you improve the roster talent, the more wins your team will collect and the harder it will be to be in a position to draft that rare elite QB.  There is often a factor involving dumb luck, deliberate tanking, or a major season-ending injury (that has a strong negative impact for one season) that is needed to make this plan work.

https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1617574918832685056

https://twitter.com/Patricia_Traina/status/1617569277867069442

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2023, 12:52:13 PMThe only "problem" with this approach is that as you improve the roster talent, the more wins your team will collect and the harder it will be to be in a position to draft that rare elite QB.  There is often a factor involving dumb luck, deliberate tanking, or a major season-ending injury (that has a strong negative impact for one season) that is needed to make this plan work.

Due to the nature of the 6-1 start which underpinned them making the playoffs, and the 3-6-1 finish, which I think more fairly represents their quality, I think it is very likely their record goes down, next year.  Playing the season with Taylor/Webb/? at QB won't change that.  Against that are the roster improvements.  To the extent that roster improvement is from the draft, it generally takes a while for rookies to get up to speed, so I think 8-9 would be the upper area we could reasonably expect. That would put them 14-16 in draft order which could put them in range, possibly with a trade up, to get a guy, if they like him.

But, of course,"The best laid schemes o' Giants an' men / Gang aft a-gley."

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 23, 2023, 01:11:56 PMDue to the nature of the 6-1 start which underpinned them making the playoffs, and the 3-6-1 finish, which I think more fairly represents their quality, I think it is very likely their record goes down, next year.  Playing the season with Taylor/Webb/? at QB won't change that.  Against that are the roster improvements.  To the extent that roster improvement is from the draft, it generally takes a while for rookies to get up to speed, so I think 8-9 would be the upper area we could reasonably expect. That would put them 14-16 in draft order which could put them in range, possibly with a trade up, to get a guy, if they like him.

But, of course,"The best laid schemes o' Giants an' men / Gang aft a-gley."

If the Giants had gone Taylor/Webb this season do you believe they would have still gone 9-7-1 and made the playoffs?

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2023, 01:20:34 PMIf the Giants had gone Taylor/Webb this season do you believe they would have still gone 9-7-1 and made the playoffs?

Not likely.  And while I got excited and enjoyed them getting into the playoffs and winning a game I'm not sure that was the best thing for their long term progress.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 23, 2023, 01:23:21 PMNot likely.  And while I got excited and enjoyed them getting into the playoffs and winning a game I'm not sure that was the best thing for their long term progress.

I believe such a thing is a mixed bag.  On the one hand you draft lower, which makes building more difficult

On the other hand, you attract and retain better free agents because they will come to the Giants to compete rather than just for the money.

It's also not bad to get the younger players some playoff experience.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2023, 01:26:09 PMI believe such a thing is a mixed bag.  On the one hand you draft lower, which makes building more difficult

On the other hand, you attract and retain better free agents because they will come to the Giants to compete rather than just for the money.

It's also not bad to get the younger players some playoff experience.

I think it is a major problem for the fans.  We heard it right here, "gee our OL isn't that bad, they are improving', and 'see, all we need is a #1 WR because our guys aren't that bad'.  I think Schoen & Co. have a more realistic view of things and realize our OL and WRs (and our ILBs) are not good and not up to the standard they need to be to compete with top teams.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 23, 2023, 01:23:21 PMNot likely.  And while I got excited and enjoyed them getting into the playoffs and winning a game I'm not sure that was the best thing for their long term progress.

Completely disagree.  If the feeling is that this will make this regime complacent and get off track with what they're trying to do long term I don't think this Giants regime will operate that way especially after listening to them today.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 23, 2023, 01:30:43 PMI think it is a major problem for the fans.  We heard it right here, "gee our OL isn't that bad, they are improving', and 'see, all we need is a #1 WR because our guys aren't that bad'.  I think Schoen & Co. have a more realistic view of things and realize our OL and WRs (and our ILBs) are not good and not up to the standard they need to be to compete with top teams.

Schoen did talk about the talent gap between his team and the better teams in the division and playoffs.

I think Tyrod could have easily come close to the 3200 15 and 5. Even if it was 2,900 12 and 7 your still paying 5 million as opposed to 40 million... Is 300 yards and 3 Tds really worth the 35 million extra? That's weere the disconnect is for me because for most of the season Jones averaged less than 200 yards a game and I just can't see that number regardless of who is on the field with him and think yeah, we should definitely give this guy 40 million. We won one game in our division and the Eagles aren't going anywhere, neither are the cowboys, and at some point Washington will find a QB. I just think we are a lot farther off then really all 3 of the other teams in our division.

https://twitter.com/Scott_Spratt/status/1617611087997980673

Quote from: Ed Vette on January 23, 2023, 10:12:19 AMIt wasn't Jones' fault they lost the game but he didn't play well in a do or die game and he lost some luster. The after game look on Daboll's face and his immediate comments had reality written all over it.

For Jones it will take a village...

This was my trepidation with him two years ago. He's worked hard and Daboll has masked some of his shortcomings but I see a lot of Dak Prescott in DJ.

I don't see them mortgaging the future for his services.

Ed,

This was a really well thought out post, which in my opinion was one of your best, and I agree with the village aspect.

As for Prescott he completely choked in the 49ers game, he threw two interceptions, but honestly it should have been at least three, and they came at the worst time.

In big games, he doesn't come through, and his play actually hurt his team even with a powerful defense.