Big Blue Huddle

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Sad

@T200 death was likely instantaneous, or at the very least; they likely lost consciousness before drowning. 

@DaveBrown74 I understand the military shared the information about the explosion with the search and rescue command.   Although, I could understand the operations still being conducted as the noise alone really didn't constitute definitive proof they were dead.

@AZGiantFan I suspect the use of carbon fiber was an effort to reduce costs.  The sub made of carbon fiber would be lighter and smaller.  As such, it would be easier to ship and handle (in and out of the water).  The problem with such cutting-edge tech is you can foresee every issue. Typically when engineering something this cutting edge, you would conduct many tests (unmanned) to see how the materials and the design reacted to repeated cycles of extra high pressure and no pressure (when they were at the surface).

In hindsight, they clearly put too much faith in what they claimed were state-of-the-art hull monitoring technologies.   It's quite possible the sensors gave an alarm, but the failure followed immediately, not allowing the pilot the time to try and surface.

I know people love to hate regulations, but there are legit reasons for them. 

I keep reading that death was not only instantaneous but so instantaneous that they likely never even knew there was a problem.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 23, 2023, 10:39:58 AMI keep reading that death was not only instantaneous but so instantaneous that they likely never even knew there was a problem.

They were likely blown into smithereens.

The first submarine to implode was the first nuclear-powered sub, the USS Thresher, in April 1963. 129 lives lost. From all I've ever read on this, when there is an implosion, it is instant and human bodies are reduced to nothingness in a small fraction of a second. Imagine a small potato getting hit with a ten ton sledgehammer swinging at close to the speed of sound. Not trying to be morbid here, but it's so instant that the mind doesn't even know what happened. One second you're laughing and joking around, and then you're standing in front of St. Peter wondering "WTF - why am...and how did I get here?"

An interesting article on the legal ramifications of this disaster

https://apnews.com/article/titanic-sub-accident-laws-deep-sea-6d1e100f39a46091ae9895706adbcceb

Years before the tragedy, Rush said in a 2021 interview with the Spanish YouTuber alanxelmundo that he hoped to be remembered as an innovator.

"I think it was General MacArthur who said: 'You're remembered for the rules you break,'" Rush said, smiling.

The CEO acknowledged that he'd "broken some rules" with the Titan's manufacturing but was confident that his design was sound.

"I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me. Carbon fiber and titanium? There's a rule you don't do that," he told alanxelmundo. "Well, I did."

More

https://www.insider.com/oceangate-ceo-stockton-rush-broken-some-rules-titanic-sub-remembered-2023-6

A submarine pilot hired to assess the now-missing Titanic submersible warned in 2018 that its hull monitoring system would only detect failure "often milliseconds before an implosion."

David Lochridge, a submarine pilot and inspector from Scotland, said in court filings that he was fired after expressing concerns about the safety of the Titan — a 22-foot submersible that disappeared on Sunday while carrying five people to see the wreck of the Titanic.

...

Lochridge said he raised "serious safety concerns" in his inspection report, including issues regarding the viewport's design. His primary worry, however, was over a lack of testing on the Titan's hull, Lochridge said in his countersuit.

OceanGate was relying on an "acoustic monitoring system" that would detect when the hull breaks down, Lochridge said in his lawsuit.

But Lochridge warned that the system would "only show when a component is about to fail — often milliseconds before an implosion," and couldn't detect if any existing flaws were already affecting the hull, the lawsuit said.

"Non-destructive testing was critical to detect such potentially existing flaws in order to ensure a solid and safe product for the safety of the passengers and crew," Lochridge's lawsuit said.

However, the submarine pilot said OceanGate told him that the Titan's hull was too thick to scan for weak spots and adhesion issues.

Lochridge said that after he submitted his inspection report, OceanGate fired him and gave the pilot "approximately 10 minutes to immediately clear out his desk and exit the premises."

https://www.insider.com/titanic-submersible-only-warns-milliseconds-before-hull-failure-fired-executive-2023-6

James Cameron (Director of the Titanic) calls the 4-day hunt for the submarine a "charade". He said that all the authorities knew the sub was lost and that the sub parts were found exactly where it was targeted to land, yet pretended it could be anywhere. Not only was the sub found directly under the launch coordinates, it was also the very spot where they heard the last transmission from.

https://nypost.com/2023/06/23/titanic-director-james-cameron-says-search-for-missing-sub-was-nightmarish-charade/

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on June 23, 2023, 04:55:05 PMJames Cameron (Director of the Titanic) calls the 4-day hunt for the submarine a "charade". He said that all the authorities knew the sub was lost and that the sub parts were found exactly where it was targeted to land, yet pretended it could be anywhere. Not only was the sub found directly under the launch coordinates, it was also the very spot where they heard the last transmission from.

https://nypost.com/2023/06/23/titanic-director-james-cameron-says-search-for-missing-sub-was-nightmarish-charade/

I think Cameron was a bit of a dick.  I thought they were dead as well, but I am not going to pretend what I thought was the likely situation was absolute

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 23, 2023, 07:18:41 PMI think Cameron was a bit of a dick.  I thought they were dead as well, but I am not going to pretend what I thought was the likely situation was absolute

I agree that he comes across like a dick, but the one thing he said that made perfect sense is "why spend four days searching everywhere except the exact location of the sub's descent", which is where they found all the pieces. That should have been the very first spot to look during the search. Doesn't make much sense to spend days looking everywhere except there 

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on June 24, 2023, 10:48:43 AMI agree that he comes across like a dick, but the one thing he said that made perfect sense is "why spend four days searching everywhere except the exact location of the sub's descent", which is where they found all the pieces. That should have been the very first spot to look during the search. Doesn't make much sense to spend days looking everywhere except there 

The search of the ocean floor took longer because they needed to bring in deep sea ROVs.

U.S. Navy ballistic missile subs are made of 2 inch thick steel that is 4x stronger than traditional steel.  Those subs are rated to a depth of around 1,000 feet.

To build a submersible out of fiberglass and carbon fiber is a joke.  It is not strong at all and once there is any kind of crack, it breaks down quickly.  The crime is also what country and agency certified it for use and who insured it.  That thing belongs near a beach going underwater, not 13,000 feet underwater 1,000 miles off the coast.

I hope people now realize that all these so-called "adventure" experience to space, underwater, etc are not being handled by military or NASA quality standard equipment.

Quote from: Philosophers on June 24, 2023, 07:25:56 PMU.S. Navy ballistic missile subs are made of 2 inch thick steel that is 4x stronger than traditional steel.  Those subs are rated to a depth of around 1,000 feet.

To build a submersible out of fiberglass and carbon fiber is a joke.  It is not strong at all and once there is any kind of crack, it breaks down quickly.  The crime is also what country and agency certified it for use and who insured it.  That thing belongs near a beach going underwater, not 13,000 feet underwater 1,000 miles off the coast.

I hope people now realize that all these so-called "adventure" experience to space, underwater, etc are not being handled by military or NASA quality standard equipment.

Joe,

The sub wasn't certified by any accepted entity.  Likely the unique nature of the construction precluded any chance of being certified.

Ego led to their destruction