Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:41:50 AMThere are only 2 elite QBs in the league that dont need to be propped up by their teammates. Finding them is extremely hard. Many QBs play are elevated by their surrounding casts.

I totally agree that it's hard, but at least it doesn't need to be prohibitively expensive, as you're perpetually dealing with rookie QB contracts as you continue to search for your guy.

What is prohibitively expensive and what really cripples a franchise is squinting your eyes and talking yourself into believing your mediocre QB is going to be great and then handing him $40m a year type money with a sizeable guarantee. There is nothing "harder" than winning anything significant with that type of an albatross situation holding you down.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 06, 2023, 11:45:03 AMThomas and Barkley to start.  Waller, Robinson and Hyatt if you can actually get them the ball and not always looking to go underneath or check down.

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert and even Lawrence at this point are the elite QB's in the league who while they aren't perfect or aren't prone to bad games consistently elevate their teams and are productive.

Mahomes and Allen I agree with. They are the only elite ones.

Herbert has never won a playoff game. And you dont think when healthy, Ekeler- Allen, and Williams arent elite players that make him better? You cannot be elite if you dont win.
Lawrence has been very AVERAGE this year. Putting him in the same class as Mahomes and Allen is ridiculous.
Burrow can be elite, but lets face it - he has been horrible this year and having those 3 WRs definitely prop him up.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:40:41 AMWhat good players do they have?

I am very curious to hear this.

Darren Waller is a legit #1 option, he has been wide open plenty of times but Jones can't read defenses to get it to him

Wandale and Hyatt are high draft picks and have been plenty open in similar fashion. They have big play ability.

We have an All Pro left tackle

Saquon Barkley is a top 10 RB, probably higher

Slayon and Hodgins are very capable #2s

They have a 2nd round pick at center

EZ has showed competency at tackle, at worst he is a quality, valuable depth oiece across the whole OL minus center

Bellinger is a strong #2 TE, he can start for several teams.

DJ is simply not the guy, it is what it is, the more its excused the more you'll be let down

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 06, 2023, 11:45:38 AMI totally agree that it's hard, but at least it doesn't need to be prohibitively expensive, as you're perpetually dealing with rookie QB contracts as you continue to search for your guy.

What is prohibitively expensive and what really cripples a franchise is squinting your eyes and talking yourself into believing your mediocre QB is going to be great and then handing him $40m a year type money with a sizeable guarantee. There is nothing "harder" than winning anything significant with that type of an albatross situation holding you down.

I dont disagree with a word with that. My point is if you dont have Mahomes or Allen right now - getting any qb and play for the Giants and reach their full potential would be next to impossible. Our roster is very bad.

Quote from: True Blue on October 06, 2023, 11:48:20 AMDarren Waller is a legit #1 option, he has been wide open plenty of times but Jones can't read defenses to get it to him

Wandale and Hyatt are high draft picks and have been plenty open in similar fashion. They have big play ability.

We have an All Pro left tackle

Saquon Barkley is a top 10 RB, probably higher

Slayon and Hodgins are very capable #2s

They have a 2nd round pick at center

EZ has showed competency at tackle, at worst he is a quality, valuable depth oiece across the whole OL minus center

Bellinger is a strong #2 TE, he can start for several teams.

DJ is simply not the guy, it is what it is, the more its excused the more you'll be let down

Wow. I am not even going to respond to this. Sorry, but you are WAY overvaluing our players.

Our elite player is Thomas and our two very good players are Lawrence and Barkley. Everyone else is average or much worse.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:48:50 AMI dont disagree with a word with that. My point is if you dont have Mahomes or Allen right now - getting any qb and play for the Giants and reach their full potential would be next to impossible. Our roster is very bad.

Agreed, which is why it's all the more wasteful to be allocating such a large chunk of our resources to a mediocre (at best this year) QB when we have such dire needs elsewhere.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:50:18 AMWow. I am not even going to respond to this. Sorry, but you are WAY overvaluing our players.

Our elite player is Thomas and our two very good players are Lawrence and Barkley. Everyone else is average or much worse.

You just did

You also are WAY overvaluing the QB

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 06, 2023, 11:50:47 AMAgreed, which is why it's all the more wasteful to be allocating such a large chunk of our resources to a mediocre (at best this year) QB when we have such dire needs elsewhere.

Well we only have to play him one more year. Getting Williams/Jackson contract off the books will help as well. I am still in favor of drafting a QB in the top 10 and trade Jones for whatever we can. Even if its a 6th. We dont need any controversies. Rip the band aid and if the rookie takes his lumps his first year, so be it.

Quote from: True Blue on October 06, 2023, 11:51:54 AMYou just did

You also are WAY overvaluing the QB

Please show my evaluation of him. I am literally advocating in this thread to draft a QB and that Jones cannot prop up middling teams. So, please be fair and honest when you speculate what I think.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:47:40 AMMahomes and Allen I agree with. They are the only elite ones.

Herbert has never won a playoff game. And you dont think when healthy, Ekeler- Allen, and Williams arent elite players that make him better? You cannot be elite if you dont win.
Lawrence has been very AVERAGE this year. Putting him in the same class as Mahomes and Allen is ridiculous.
Burrow can be elite, but lets face it - he has been horrible this year and having those 3 WRs definitely prop him up.

Herbert's supporting cast isn't much different than the one Jones has.  If you watch enough of his games you can see how good he is and how he carriers that team.

Burrow is elite.  Having a bad start to the season doesn't take away from the fact that he has a track record that Daniel Jones could never touch even with a bad offensive line.

I invite you to watch more of these QB's play seeing if you notice a difference in their play and games compared to Jones.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:48:50 AMI dont disagree with a word with that. My point is if you dont have Mahomes or Allen right now - getting any qb and play for the Giants and reach their full potential would be next to impossible. Our roster is very bad.

The Giants are a much better team with any of the Burrow, Herbert or Lawrence group.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:53:13 AMWell we only have to play him one more year. Getting Williams/Jackson contract off the books will help as well. I am still in favor of drafting a QB in the top 10 and trade Jones for whatever we can. Even if its a 6th. We dont need any controversies. Rip the band aid and if the rookie takes his lumps his first year, so be it.

Giants are stuck with Jones through at least 2024.  The dead cap hit the Giants would take in trading him would be massive with how his contract is structured.

Ekeler, Allen, and Williams are on par with barkley, Slayton, and Hodgins? let me guess mixon, boyd, higgins, and chase are on the same level as them too? I have heard of it all now.

Oh by the way, herbert really struggled this past week without Ekeler and Williams. Yes they won, but if you want to argue a 54% completion percentage with one TD and one INT is a special performance, then so be it.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:59:47 AMEkeler, Allen, and Williams are on par with barkley, Slayton, and Hodgins? let me guess mixon, boyd, higgins, and chase are on the same level as them too? I have heard of it all now.

Oh by the way, herbert really struggled this past week without Ekeler and Williams. Yes they won, but if you want to argue a 54% completion percentage with one TD and one INT is a special performance, then so be it.

Ekeler and Barkley are about equal

Waller can offset Williams more or less, and we have more depth and a better TE room. 

Not hard to see.  He never said they were on par, Chargers are still a bit better at the top of the depth chart.

Bengals WRS are better, Barkley is much better than Mixon though.

Waller is not better than Mike Williams. I mean come on already...

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:54:08 AMPlease show my evaluation of him. I am literally advocating in this thread to draft a QB and that Jones cannot prop up middling teams. So, please be fair and honest when you speculate what I think.

Well for one, you seem to think he doesn't have enough to work with, when he is missing receivers who are WIDE OPEN against nfl defenses and time to get it to them. And over-blaming the OL for things that are not their fault. They aren't good, but not as bad as some want to paint the picture of.

So pardon me, for not thinking you have a solid understanding of what we do have on the team.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 12:06:40 PMWaller is not better than Mike Williams. I mean come on already...

Never said he is. I said he can offset him more or less

I would rather take a healthy Waller over the 2-3 games a year Williams suits up though.