Big Blue Huddle

Thanks to AI, and some master technicians, they were able to piecemeal an old non-professional singing of Lennon playing piano and singing his latest idea...more than a quarter century ago. Then they found Harrison's playing of the song (again, a practice piece and an unprofessional recording), and mashed it up with Lennon's piano and singing. Then they had McCartney play bass with Ringo on the drums to create a professional new release from none other than the Beatles. We live in amazing times

So far I don't love the song, but I am really impressed that they (the technicians) could actually pull a song out of two dead guys and a couple of octogenarians to release the first new song by the Beatles in about 50 years

Here's the song:

I am an absolutely huge Beatles fan, even though I was born 6 years after they broke up.  I love that they did this and did it as a kind of farewell.  When I heard the song I liked it but was more impressed over how they pulled John's vocal out and cleaned it up...it sounds incredible.  There is also a short film where they described how it came together which I'll post below.

I will say my opinion of the song changed a lot when I saw the video you posted above- completely changed it for me, got me honestly a bit emotional as I watched.  Very cool how they put that together and showed their friendship so strongly, then the end where they sign off with that absolutely iconic frame of them in front of the drums and fade away...so well done!  20 years...50 years...150 years from now they will still hold iconic, legendary status.  Just crazy to think about.

Anyway, here's the short film:
https://youtu.be/APJAQoSCwuA?si=4vXQhpYBal_u-p0p

I've heard it played on one of our local radio station's morning show.

I like the music, but IMO the voice AI is still in its infancy.

As an ersatz professional musician (lol) I know why but it's hard to explain. I'll give it a try...

It sounds as though ALL of the lead vocal was derived from a single digital "sample" of Lennon's voice.

I say that because there is a certain "monotony" (or, to be more precise, a mono-tonality) in the singing, which would happen if you, for example, took a sample of a single piano key and then used that sample to reproduce all 88 keys on a piano. Although I play several instruments, my main instrument has always been piano and I know that each of the 88 keys has a different timbre. So does a person's voice. They should have sampled, at a minimum, Lennon singing every possible note within his range, both loud and soft, then used all of those samples to "predict" digitally what he would have sounded like singing the tune of the song. A much better (and almost impossible) addition to the foregoing would have been to get samples of him singing every possible syllable of the lyrics in the song on the same note as in the melody. There's more but I seem to "hear" some snoring in the background so I'll just quit. lol

Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 04:39:45 PMI've heard it played on one of our local radio station's morning show.

I like the music, but IMO the voice AI is still in its infancy.

As an ersatz professional musician (lol) I know why but it's hard to explain. I'll give it a try...

It sounds as though ALL of the lead vocal was derived from a single digital "sample" of Lennon's voice.

I say that because there is a certain "monotony" (or, to be more precise, a mono-tonality) in the singing, which would happen if you, for example, took a sample of a single piano key and then used that sample to reproduce all 88 keys on a piano. Although I play several instruments, my main instrument has always been piano and I know that each of the 88 keys has a different timbre. So does a person's voice. They should have sampled, at a minimum, Lennon singing every possible note within his range, both loud and soft, then used all of those samples to "predict" digitally what he would have sounded like singing the tune of the song. A much better (and almost impossible) addition to the foregoing would have been to get samples of him singing every possible syllable of the lyrics in the song on the same note as in the melody. There's more but I seem to "hear" some snoring in the background so I'll just quit. lol

Bob

Ha.  Good stuff.  I do think that might have crossed a line into trying to do "too much" with AI...ie tampering with nature and I'd bet a bunch of purists would have balked at anyone doing that with John's voice especially.

Now...me???  I think it's cool as hell and has tons of applications.  I don't think we're all that far away from hearing "new" songs sung by old/dead musicians......and labeled as such (ie, not taking credit).  Pretty interesting new art form on the way that a lot of folks will probably rebel against. 

Quote from: PSUBeirut on November 06, 2023, 04:20:50 PMI am an absolutely huge Beatles fan, even though I was born 6 years after they broke up.

PSU: I figured there was more than one reason why we seldom disagree here (besides the fact that as PSU fans we obviously know a lot more about football than other members lol).

I'm also a big Beatles fan and played in rock bands from age 14 to 41. We always did as many Beatles songs as we thought we could get away with (despite constantly changing "music scenes" including the disco era).

The best of them featured many Beatles songs, including an entire set consisting of the back side of the Abbey Road album from beginning to end. The last song, by the way, is called "The End." lol

We thought a lot of them and their song-writing in particular. Here's just 1 more example of "how much"...

Our bass player was a dead ringer for McCartney. He was such a huge fan that he intentionally learned how to play his standard (right-hand) bass upside down so it would point in the same direction as McCartney's. (McCartney is left-handed and plays a left-handed bass correctly). He eventually got into  two nationally-known Beatles-tribute bands and has traveled the world impersonating McCartney for many years.

Bob

Quote from: PSUBeirut on November 06, 2023, 04:20:50 PMI am an absolutely huge Beatles fan, even though I was born 6 years after they broke up.  I love that they did this and did it as a kind of farewell.  When I heard the song I liked it but was more impressed over how they pulled John's vocal out and cleaned it up...it sounds incredible.  There is also a short film where they described how it came together which I'll post below.

I will say my opinion of the song changed a lot when I saw the video you posted above- completely changed it for me, got me honestly a bit emotional as I watched.  Very cool how they put that together and showed their friendship so strongly, then the end where they sign off with that absolutely iconic frame of them in front of the drums and fade away...so well done!  20 years...50 years...150 years from now they will still hold iconic, legendary status.  Just crazy to think about.

Anyway, here's the short film:
https://youtu.be/APJAQoSCwuA?si=4vXQhpYBal_u-p0p

You're not alone being a little choked up...me too.

Unlike you, I was a teen in their hey day. I watched the girls screaming on the Ed Sullivan's show in our old living room on the black and white console TV and listened to girls arguing on my bus on my way to school about which Beatle they were going to marry...LOL. I am a Beatles' nut, probably mostly because of those old days growing up with them

That film of how this song was put together is incredible. When I first read about the song being released, the term "AI" was always part of the story, but it doesn't seem (after watching the documentary) that AI really had anything to do with it, just superb technology that's finally available. Makes me wonder if there's any other old songs kicking around they can bring to life 

I was reading about other musicians and what they believed was the greatest song the Beatles ever produced. Pretty much unanimous that "A Day in the Life", which used an incredible amount of instrumentation seldom tried by anyone, and like "Queen", could write a song that moved away from the typical "verse/chorus method" and went in different directions. A lot of piano playing by John. Interestingly, the same person interviewing all these top musicians asked Paul the greatest song ever written, and he didn't say one of the Beatles, but called "A Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procol Harum the quintessential song ever produced, and that they used Harum's song style as an inspiration. It is an incredible song that marries blues with rock about as good as any attempt ever. I also learned (to my great surprise) that the song "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" (written by George Harrison) was actually done with Eric Clapton playing the guitar, yet he was never credited with it. Clapton was a big Beatles' fan and vice versa, and wanted to collaborate with them to produce a song

When you compare with some of the stuff the real musicians did in the 60's attempting to find a new style and marry it to rock, it's kind of sad. Guys like the Beatles, Clapton, Procol Harum, etc., were experimenting with different melodies and instruments to "find a new sound". Of course, Clapton spent his life trying to marry blues into rock, but came up short in my opinion (which means nothing of course). I do love violins and piano being put into rock, and I wish it was done more often. Coldplay nails it with "Viva la Vida" (maybe the best use of violins ever in a rock song), and Damn Yankees with "High Enough", or Shinedown's "Call Me" (which is kind of sad as he's singing about his breakup with his wife, which I can relate to...unfortunately), or Shinedown's "Second Chance"...and there's INXS's "Never Tear us Apart" that mixes violins with a great sax. I give credit to the Beatles for future bands using violins and piano in their songs. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel. I love an orchestra backing up a band. Maybe it's the old love of classical music I had when I went through a stage in the 80's

Anyway, interesting stuff...to me anyway

"A Day in the Life":

"A Whiter Shade of Pale" Procol Harum:

"While My Guitar Gently Weeps":

"When I Ruled the World" Coldplay:

"High Enough" Damn Yankees:

"Call Me" Shinedown:

"Second Chance" Shinedown:

"Never Tear Us Apart" INXS:

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 05:25:52 PMPSU: I figured there was more than one reason why we seldom disagree here (besides the fact that as PSU fans we obviously know a lot more about football than other members lol).

I, also a big Beatles fan and played in rock bands from age 14 to 41. We always did as many Beatles songs as we thought we could get away with (despite constantly changing "music scenes" including the disco era).

The best of them featured many Beatles songs, including an entire set consisting of the back side of the Abbey Road album from beginning to end. The last song, by the way, is called "The End." lol

We thought a lot of them and their song-writing in particular. Here's just 1 more example of "how much"...

Our bass player was a dead ringer for McCartney. He was such a huge fan that he intentionally learned how to play his standard (right-hand) bass upside down so it would point in the same direction as McCartney's. (McCartney is left-handed and plays a left-handed bass correctly). He eventually got into  two nationally-known Beatles-tribute bands and has traveled the world impersonating McCartney for many years.

Bob

Bob, I am blown away with your background in music. Always thought of you as this serious lawyer on the board, LOL. I, too, play piano as my first instrument and guitar as a second, but was never in a band (although I sang second tenor in a barbershop quartet for a couple of years and baritone in the church choir. I learned to play clarinet as a kid, but hated it. I believe we are basically in the same age range...I'm 70 and take care of my 92-year-old mother, but it's interesting to find out you are a musician and an audio/melophile. This board just keeps on getting better

Ric, speaking of "Whiter Shade of Pale." Have you heard/seen this version? It's awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St6jyEFe5WM

Awesome stuff Jolly- I'll come back to it in a bit when I have more than 2 minutes to write...but it made me think about a quick experience I had this summer.  My wife is a huge Dave Matthews fan (I'm a fan...like his music but I'd certainly never rate as a "huge" fan)....anyway, we went to one of his concerts and in the middle he and his band covered I want you (she's so heavy) - which is off Abbey Road and I believe was one John brought to the band to work on. 

Anyway, here's what struck me- that song is a good song by the Beatles but by no means what I'd consider close to their best....but the songwriting, composition, chord changes, "feel" changes, varied instrumentation (and the excellence as to how every instrument was played on the original version), tempo and time signature changes....was just in a word superior than anything else Dave played that night (and he's got some good ones).  It's just the Beatles at the height of their songwriting abilities just can't be touched.  That cover stuck out like a sore thumb as far as songwriting quality. 

Here it is in case you need a refresher (it's the song that leads directly into Here Comes the Sun on the album, which is such a unique/harsh change in feel from one song to the next):
https://youtu.be/tAe2Q_LhY8g?si=l_48hMpXQsD-_DvQ

Thanks for sharing that Steve - that rendition of Whiter Shade of Pale is going in my library. Absolutely beautiful...as close to perfection as a song can get

Little known...this song stayed no.1 across Europe longer than any other song, and it was never that big in the states. Sorta becomes England's song the way Michael Murphey's "Wildfire" is adopted by Canada, or "Danny Boy" in Ireland. Regardless, it's an incredible song

Glad you jumped in here, as we've discussed quite a few things in the past and have similar interests. I know you have Binghamton roots, so if you ever get out this way, you have to let me know and I'll buy you a drink. Warning though, I hang out in dives instead of the high brow chandelier bars, lol

To the other Steve - LOL

I remember "I Want You" like it was yesterday. I was a stoned 18-year-old the first time I heard it, and it blew me away. I can't imagine Dave Mathew improving on it. It's a terrific song to show how the Beatles dabbled into a whole new area of music...far away from some of the old bubble gum songs that were fun, but lacked mental stimulation that makes you sit back and concentrate on every nuance of a song

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on November 06, 2023, 05:56:16 PMBob, I am blown away with your background in music. Always thought of you as this serious lawyer on the board, LOL. I, too, play piano as my first instrument and guitar as a second, but was never in a band (although I sang second tenor in a barbershop quartet for a couple of years and baritone in the church choir. I learned to play clarinet as a kid, but hated it. I believe we are basically in the same age range...I'm 70 and take care of my 92-year-old mother, but it's interesting to find out you are a musician and an audio/melophile. This board just keeps on getting better

Jolly: Just ONE MORE thing we have in common.  Not only did I hate it, I hurt what was already a bad (left) ear over-blowing into the darn thing. I have a bachelor's degree in classical music composition which (essentially) I never took advantage of directly (but I do use it in attempting to record the pop music I've written... with varying results lol). Bob

Quote from: Sem on November 06, 2023, 06:16:55 PMRic, speaking of "Whiter Shade of Pale." Have you heard/seen this version? It's awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St6jyEFe5WM

Steve: You always seem to come up with great stuff and that is no exception.

I never heard that version and never played the song, even when we were lugging around a Hammond B-3 organ with  Leslie speaker cabinet.

One of my main reasons for quitting doing the band thing was lack of interest carrying around heavy equipment. We also carried an Yamaha electra-grand piano for many years. Ugh! 

Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 06:57:33 PMJolly: Just ONE MORE thing we have in common.  Not only did I hate it, I hurt what was already a bad (left) ear over-blowing into the darn thing. I have a bachelor's degree in classical music composition which (essentially) I never took advantage of directly (but I do use it in attempting to record the pop music I've written... with varying results lol). Bob

Wow...a BA in classical music comp - you never fail to impress the hell out of me. BTW, one thing that AI has done in the past few months is to "accurately" interpret Beethoven's 9th. As I'm sure you are aware, his 9th has been played for a long time and it took years trying to interpret Beethoven's original manuscripts and his intent, but no one knows for sure if that's what he had in mind. So they fed his original manuscripts into AI which then compared it with all his previous manuscripts and came up with Beethoven's original intent (supposedly). Pretty incredible, especially when you look at some of his original manuscripts for his 9th...and considering he was deaf when he wrote it. Here's a couple of samples from his original (how'd you like to play this on a piano - or any instrument, if this is what you had to work with?):

Quote from: Sem on November 06, 2023, 06:16:55 PMRic, speaking of "Whiter Shade of Pale." Have you heard/seen this version? It's awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St6jyEFe5WM

I've only played this a dozen times since you shared it and a few things stick out to me

1) Not one f#$&n cell phone in the air blocking views. The audience is smart enough to just soak in the moment. Every concert I've been to in the last few years, kids have to hold up their cell phones either to get a terrible recording or in lieu of the old days when we held up cigarette lighters

2) When Gary Brooker hit his first note on the piano, one guy immediately stood up...that would've been me. I don't follow the crowd. I once yelled "bravo" when Stephen Tyler was taking his last bows and he was about 10 feet from me. He must have heard me and found it unusual enough that he looked at me and nodded his head and I could read his lips saying "thank you"

3) a lot of musicians live the life of wealth by living on royalties. In this case, Brooker and Procol Harum deserve every penny they still recieve for writing that historic song



This woman is the smartest person in the entire group who is just enjoying the moment and not fiddling with their f&^%$*n phone. It drives me crazy how phones have become more important that the moment